Gun Control is Completely Useless.

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JamesBondo

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OMG! some young people peacefully exchanging a firearm looking thing in public. like who would do this if it was actually criminals?

So, if I had the real thing, I could paint it with primary colors, and duct tape the water tank from a supersoaker onto. Maybe hang a few tassles off it.


That should keep those militant "replica cops" off my back.
 
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bluebyrd35

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JamesBondo said:
Bluebyrd, statistics is only one way to do well in a debate. You could just choose to keep your points short, reasonable, and moderate.

For example, you talk all the time about negative things related to firearms. As terrible as all the stats are in the USA, I can still challenge you on the effectiveness of gun control in Canada BECAUSE Canada was already an awesome place befor gun control laws were passed. What evidence do you have to suggest that Canada's gun control worked? None.

Btw, check out this comedy segment

If It Only Saves One Life - Applying Gun Control Logic to Staircases - YouTube

It makes fun of the 'if it saves just one life' ideology by applying it to stairway accidents. I didn't know that stairways were such a big health risk but the numbers are staggering
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Not so. I have repeatedly said that licensed hunting is needed, particularly since several species have outgrown their environments (including humans, but we cant' actually shoot them). It is rather sad that to prevent starvation of, for example deer, because of over population, the herds sometimes need to be culled.


Also target shooting is fine in my opinion. In fact, I knew one of the Quebec sharp shooters a few years ago. She won several years running. Even a gun kept for self protection is fine......IF it is registered and is kept well out of the hands of children and those who would misuse it, is fine.


BUT.......I feel very strongly about those who need guns for self esteem or macho. And as far as I am concerned, anyone with an ambition to own a gun, must pass a legitimate course on gun safety and obey the rules of the country/province/state and keep them safely out of reach of children. Take a look at the stats on how many women are killed by their spouses/significant others in the US and how many children die everyday by a firearm, in that same country and then continue to crap about losing their freedom to bear arms.


Sure there will be automobile deaths, but many people need them to earn a living, truck are needed to bring goods to communities. We could pass a law to stop recreational use of vehicles but that will not change the deaths from guns, will it.


To even suggest Canada loosen it's gun laws to emulate those of the US, in my opinion, is tantamount to insanity!!

Colpy said:
Just a minute!!

How could that be??

Gun deaths exceeded motor vehicle accidents in the District of Columbia?? Why, DC has tougher gun laws than CANADA!!! How can this be??

Gun deaths also outpaced motor vehicle deaths in MARYLAND?? Maryland also has extremely tough gun laws.

And, BTW, 2/3 of gun deaths are VOLUNTARY, as in suicide. How many vehicular deaths are voluntary??

The comparison is idiotic, and irrelevant.....obviously.
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Doesn't it occur to you that perhaps, more automobile drivers in DC and Maryland obey the laws governing cars than gun owners do? Also, since DC and Maryland had a very bad record regarding gun violence, before the tough laws came in, it should take at least as long for those laws to begin to be effective as it took for those areas develop into practically the worst place in the US for gun violence.
 
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Colpy

Colpy

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bluebyrd35 said:
Not so. I have repeatedly said that licensed hunting is needed, particularly since several species have outgrown their environments (including humans, but we cant' actually shoot them). It is rather sad that to prevent starvation of, for example deer, because of over population, the herds sometimes need to be culled.


Also target shooting is fine in my opinion. In fact, I knew one of the Quebec sharp shooters a few years ago. She won several years running. Even a gun kept for self protection is fine......IF it is registered and is kept well out of the hands of children and those who would misuse it, is fine.



.
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I actually agree with most of that

bluebyrd35 said:
To even suggest Canada loosen it's gun laws to emulate those of the US, in my opinion, is tantamount to insanity!!



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Some states have tougher laws than Canada, most are more liberal with guns.

Now, I choose two liberal sites....compare these:

The murder rate by state.

Murder Rates Nationally and By State | Death Penalty Information Center

State gun control ratings done by the anti-gun Brady organization

http://www.bradycampaign.org/sites/default/files/SCGLM-Final10-spreads-points.pdf

Please note that the state with the LOWEST murder rate (New Hampshire: 1.1 per 100,000) has a Brady rating of D-, and a murder rate lower than the rate in Canada.

Please note that the second lowest murder rate is in Vermont, a state which earned a F rating from Brady, and also enjoys a murder rate lower than that in Canada.

There is no correlation between gun control and murder rates, nationally or internationally.
 
DaSleeper

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I can imagine Bluebird reading those stats..........


 
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bluebyrd35

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DaSleeper said:
I can imagine Bluebird reading those stats..........


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No need to wonder....I certainly noticed that the overall violent crimes increased by 0.7 percent between 2011 and 2012. Since the US was already leading the democratic world in violent crime in 2011, to point out two states out of 52 as having decreases seems a bit ridiculous. New Hampshire and Vermont, which are much more rural and environmentally friendly portions of the country did improve a wee bit. Perhaps being closer neighbours to Canada had some influence......LOL.
 
JLM

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bluebyrd35 said:
No need to wonder....I certainly noticed that the overall violent crimes increased by 0.7 percent between 2011 and 2012. Since the US was already leading the democratic world in violent crime in 2011, to point out two states out of 52 as having decreases seems a bit ridiculous. New Hampshire and Vermont, which are much more rural and environmentally friendly portions of the country did improve a wee bit. Perhaps being closer neighbours to Canada had some influence......LOL.
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52 States? Did they gain two overnight?
 
Colpy

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Tecumsehsbones said:
Yep. East Viginia and New Georgia.
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lol

So, would it be fair to say you favour gun control, and you're only quibbling about what specific controls a government imposes?
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What I would consider a fair compromise (graduated licensing) is NOT gun control, as in I think the classifications of arms, registration of same, the restrictions on magazine size, and the prohibition of certain types is ridiculous, expensive, and counter-productive as it alienates shooters.

Licensing, with background checks and training, is not really "gun control".

Semantics, I know.........

And I'm not even sure licensing does anything to stop homicide, but it seems a reasonable compromise.

bluebyrd35 said:
No need to wonder....I certainly noticed that the overall violent crimes increased by 0.7 percent between 2011 and 2012. Since the US was already leading the democratic world in violent crime in 2011, to point out two states out of 52 as having decreases seems a bit ridiculous. New Hampshire and Vermont, which are much more rural and environmentally friendly portions of the country did improve a wee bit. Perhaps being closer neighbours to Canada had some influence......LOL.
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Sigh

Wrong, wrong, and wrong.

First of all, in 139 countries rated by danger from crime, the USA rated 55, NOT first.

Crime Index by Country 2014 Mid Year

Secondly, there are 50 states, not 52.

Thirdly, I never said crime had decreased in New Hampshire and Vermont, I said it was very low. The site lists homicide rates for the last 16 years......and they have always been much lower than average.
 
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bluebyrd35

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Tecumsehsbones said:
Hey, I made a joke out of it. As to the alleged point of your comment, I've concluded there's no point in arguing with you. You've already said that you don't care about facts.
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Blooming right!! What about the right to life for all those who are murdered or the children who are accidently killed everyday?? Who's rights takes priority.


Now about facts.....it depends on how those "facts" are collected. How much credence should one give to NRA:s gun facts or to those collected by the gun industry. A lot less in my opinion than those given to those who lean towards the right to live a life without worrying about someone whipping out a gun and shooting me for expressing myself. Heck do you ever wonder what a difference any one of those presidents that were murdered would have made to our world?? Was their right to life less than those who want little or no gun control??
 
Tecumsehsbones

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bluebyrd35 said:
Blooming right!! What about the right to life for all those who are murdered or the children who are accidently killed everyday?? Who's rights takes priority.


Now about facts.....it depends on how those "facts" are collected. How much credence should one give to NRA:s gun facts or to those collected by the gun industry. A lot less in my opinion than those given to those who lean towards the right to live a life without worrying about someone whipping out a gun and shooting me for expressing myself. Heck do you ever wonder what a difference any one of those presidents that were murdered would have made to our world?? Was their right to life less than those who want little or no gun control??
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Horsesh*t. I've presented you facts from the FBI and the Centers for Disease Control, I've NEVER given you facts from the NRA, and you keep banging on about the NRA. You simply don't see facts that disagree with your prejudices. Why don't you just scream "NRA!" It'd make as much sense as your alleged arguments, and be a damn sight easier to type.
 
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bluebyrd35

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Tecumsehsbones said:
Horsesh*t. I've presented you facts from the FBI and the Centers for Disease Control, I've NEVER given you facts from the NRA, and you keep banging on about the NRA. You simply don't see facts that disagree with your prejudices. Why don't you just scream "NRA!" It'd make as much sense as your alleged arguments, and be a damn sight easier to type.
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Really?? Did you know that in 1996, the NRA rammed through a law cutting off funding for the best gun stats done in the US?? Since that time, there have been no complete stats done on gun violence in the US, only estimates by this or that organization. So, don't give me any sh*t about the NRA. Any stats after that time are bent so far out of shape as to be ludicrous.

Colpy said:
lol



What I would consider a fair compromise (graduated licensing) is NOT gun control, as in I think the classifications of arms, registration of same, the restrictions on magazine size, and the prohibition of certain types is ridiculous, expensive, and counter-productive as it alienates shooters.

Licensing, with background checks and training, is not really "gun control".

Semantics, I know.........

And I'm not even sure licensing does anything to stop homicide, but it seems a reasonable compromise.



Sigh

Wrong, wrong, and wrong.

First of all, in 139 countries rated by danger from crime, the USA rated 55, NOT first.

Crime Index by Country 2014 Mid Year

Secondly, there are 50 states, not 52.

Thirdly, I never said crime had decreased in New Hampshire and Vermont, I said it was very low. The site lists homicide rates for the last 16 years......and they have always been much lower than average.
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Now try on these stats which are not centered on countries in turmoil or emerging nations or those at war.


CountryGuns per 100Total Firearm-related Deaths per 100,000United States88.810.
.73.84Finland45.33.64Sweden31.61.47Norway31.31.78France31.23Canada30.82.44Austria30.42.94Iceland30.31.25Germany30.31.1New Zealand22.62.66Greece22.51.5Belgium17.22.43Luxembourg15.31.81Australia151.04South Africa12.79.41Turkey12.50.72Denmark121.45Malta11.92.16Italy11.91.28Spain10.40.63Ireland8.61.03Portugal8.51.77Israel7.31.86United Kingdom6.20.25Netherlands3.90.46Japan0.60.06 Read about how the CDC’s ban on gun research may cause lasting damage.


See what I mean about how accurate or dependable the stats are now.
 
Grievous

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Gun control is useless?


So anybody should be able to walk on down to the corner store and buy any gun they feel like having?


I don't think so.
 
JLM

JLM

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Grievous said:
Gun control is useless?


So anybody should be able to walk on down to the corner store and buy any gun they feel like having?


I don't think so.
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I think so AS LONG as you are a stable person of good character. I think you should have to be able to prove who you are so the gun I.D. can be registered to you. Not quite as cut and dried as buying a lollipop.
 
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