PM announces air, naval, land forces support in Ukraine

[55Mercury]

I think we should send all our frilly-underweared troops over there to give them a sound lashing... you know.. just because.

 

[petros]

Ahhhhhh it is fear.

 

[Count_Lothian]

NATO and Ukraine officially signed an agreement that anyone, even a peripatetic ex-president, can find on NATO’s website. All five states party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons gave Ukraine security assurances in return for Ukraine giving up its nuclear weapons.

That agreement was reaffirmed on August 21, 2009:

“In addition to the regular consultative and cooperative meetings set out in the Charter, the NUC [NATO Ukraine Council] will be convened following a request from Ukraine if Ukraine perceives a direct threat to its territorial integrity, political independence, or security, in line with paragraph 8 of the Partnership for Peace Framework Document.”

We owe them.

These treaties at the end of the day are not worth the paper they are written on.
Obviously.
Ukraine got played by Russia.

As it always has.

This nonsensical waste of time in the streets, looked good on television and it had shades of the Arab Spring.
It was the peasant class, and the Ukraine still has a large peasant class mentality, who took to the streets.

Oh they might look smart in their Dolce Cabbanna , but it is still a peasant class that is easily conned by it's puppet masters in Russia, who had them dance their way into this corner.

Here in Canada Harper recognizes this mentality of the Ukrainian populace in Canada and is using it as well for his election campaign coming up. It's so shallow and wrought with worms only morons could hold onto this lifeline of campaign spin doctoring.

Canada going to go to WA with Russia. your kidding me. This from a guy who spends billions on action ads for a handful of votes.

back to where the action is;

Look at the present president of Ukraine and see the inept unknowing naivete in his expression.

Wake up smell the coffee and watch as Russia trades the lead of Eastern Ukraine unrest for the gold of the Crimea.

The world already is ready to make the trade in the cause for peace.

ok so it's a bit of backslide from the big WA post, but hey I like to cover all the angles.

 

[Praxius]

http://www.nato.int/cps/ar/SID-40166323-FEE6CCD2/natolive/official_texts_19547.htm

Are you afraid of the big bad nukes?

Let's take a look at this shall we?

In pursuit of its goal of closer Euro-Atlantic integration, Ukraine will continue to pursue internal policies based on strengthening democracy and the rule of law, respect for human rights, the principle of separation of powers and judicial independence, democratic elections in accordance with Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) norms, political pluralism, freedom of speech and press, respect for the rights for national and ethnic minorities, and non-discrimination on political, religious or ethnic grounds. This will include ensuring the adaptation of all relevant legislation in pursuit of these policies.

Well they failed that section already.

Full integration into Euro-Atlantic security structures is Ukraine’s foreign policy priority and strategic goal. In this context, future internal developments will be based on decisions aimed at preparing Ukraine to achieve its goal of integration into Euro-Atlantic structures.
Ukraine and NATO share a common vision of a united and free Europe, and a determination to combat terrorism, the proliferation of Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD), regional instability and other security threats.
The interests of national security and the present international situation demand an essential deepening of relations between Ukraine and NATO.

Nothing there, just a bunch of words saying they will work with other nations to report and stop terrorism and the spread of WMD's..... Which could be as simple as a phone call to Crime Stoppers.

Ah, here we go.... Defence and Security.... This must be what you're talking about:

Ukraine remains committed to carrying forward its defence and security sector reforms with the aim of restructuring and reorganising its national defence and security establishment into a democratically controlled and effective organisation able to ensure its sovereignty and territorial integrity and to contribute to peace and stability in the Euro-Atlantic area.
In taking forward these defence and security sector reforms, Ukraine seeks to adapt its structures and missions to the changing nature of security risks in the Euro-Atlantic area, to shift from the principle of "territorial circular defence of the country", and to build on the need to support both the military and non-military aspects of crisis management.
While reform efforts focused on the armed forces will continue to be a high priority, in the context of the new security risks, Ukraine is seeking to make better use of forces and means currently under the State Committee on Border Guards, the Ministry of Interior and the Ministry of Emergencies. Reform of other security forces, such as the Border Guards, will strengthen Ukraine’s capabilities in preventing the illegal trafficking of drugs, radioactive and other banned substances, dual use technologies and human beings, as well as in fighting cross-border crime.
Ukraine will seek to complement its defence reforms with programs to address the consequences and problems of defence reform, such as assistance programmes for retired and redundant personnel, base closures, safe disposal of obsolete and surplus munitions and military equipment, conversion of defence industries, and cleaning up environmental degradation.
The armed forces of Ukraine will have to undergo a thorough enhancement of their defence infrastructure, forces and capabilities to meet the challenge of the new collective security system and new ways of conducting military operations. This work should be based on a thorough restructuring of the defence industrial complex, to ensure that it is fully able to meet the challenges of a market economy and open competition, both on internal and international markets.

Hmmm, nope, that just spells out what Ukraine will be doing in order to qualify to be a NATO member and not one single thing there relates to or shows anything detailing NATO's obligations to Ukraine's direct defence and security.

I've read the above link from top to bottom and basically it boils down to everything Ukraine Must do in order to qualify as a member of NATO and the only obligations NATO has in all of this is as a teacher and sharing of information and guidelines to help them to qualify as a NATO member.

THERE IS NOT ONE SINGLE LINE THAT STATES NATO IS OBLIGATED TO ENTER INTO A MILITARY CONFLICT ON UKRAINE'S BEHALF.

And until they are a member of NATO, we most certainly do not owe them anything.

Thanks for sharing that by the way.

 

[petros]

Fine. Let's give them full status instead of partial.

 

[Count_Lothian]

Fine. Let's give them full status instead of partial.

I think they need to mature as a nation.
Barricading yourself in the streets and turning your cities into a Hamas esque rally are not the people i want enjoying NATO and it's secrets and power.
The entire country allowed itself to be played.
No they need to grow up and mature.

 

[petros]

I think they need to mature as a nation.
Barricading yourself in the streets and turning your cities into a Hamas esque rally are not the people i want enjoying NATO and it's secrets and power.
The entire country allowed itself to be played.
No they need to grow up and mature.

First they need to kick the Soviets out.

 

[Praxius]

Fine. Let's give them full status instead of partial.

#1 - They aren't even Partially a Member, they're not a member at all. They're just another job applicant waiting for their interview.

#2 - They don't currently qualify to be a NATO member and do not deserve to have a revolving door handed to them while other nations go through the normal process.

If you bothered to read that link you would have saw that they need to get their military practices, organization and political systems on par with other NATO members so that when the time comes when NATO needs them, they can jump right in without any handholding.... Or worse, commit horrible crimes while under the NATO banner because they haven't been properly evaluated and deemed fit to serve or contribute.

Or they could be assigned a job to do, fail to properly communicate, or are completely disorganized that they botch the job and affect every other member during a critical operation.

And what if they don't have a democracy or law enforcement or basic human rights assigned in a manner that is in line with other members of NATO as outlined in the above agreement?

You don't just blindly welcome some nation into the fold due to some sympathy case.

I'm not a fan of NATO in the first place and I think Canada should step away from it & ally with nations as needed for a common goal. But since we are a member, I don't want other unqualified nations becoming a member who would further risk the lives of fellow Canadians due to their incompetence and being ill-equipped to be a real member.

That's like me hypothetically serving in the military for several years, who has been in many conflicts and has experience, then suddenly having some fat kid who only has experience playing Call of Duty on the XBox watching my back because his parents figured he needed to do more with his life.

I'd have to watch out to make sure he didn't die and to make sure he didn't get myself or anybody else killed..... And having to constantly grab him and stopping him from running out doing Rambo sh*t while hip-firing an assault rifle at targets 500m away would just be a load of fun.

 

[Count_Lothian]

First they need to kick the Soviets out.

Well a good case of ethnic cleansing will do the trick.

Petros you have to realize that in todays world we all need to get along.

It wasn't the Russians that make Ukraine their home the problem , it's the mentality of the Ukrainian wanting a pure race.

From my expierence in Canada the Ukraininas do not want their young to marry outside their race.

Be honest now. please.

So this sort of mind set in this world is a recipe for disaster.

Putin played the Ukrainne, everyone knows that. It was he that had Ukrainians trying to oust their elected president and causing all this unrest in the streets.

that in and of itself is cause to wonder what sort of viability these people bring to the European Union.

They are in the dark ages, a banana republic.

sad really for their women are the most beautiful on earth.

 

[petros]

What are you worried about? Some sort of doomsday?

What better time to step up the pace of NATO joint operations.

No matter what NATO is there to stay now.

Poland forced their hand.

For the Conspiracy types......

 

[Count_Lothian]

Yeah well Putin is now taking his forces off the border.

It's all over.

onto the more pressing matters.
I challenge anyone to tell me if Ukrainian women are not the most beautiful in the world.

and speaking from experience their ******s are special as well. As expert in this field only the Italian ****** offers a better grab action than the feel of a Ukrainian one.

I like the British hip and thigh , but meh, there is that problem with the smell.
the French labia , too flappy for eating.

The Ukrainian , perfect in every aspect. They are like the Rolls Royce of ******s. Everything to the connoisseur is a comparison to the Ukrainian one..

Maybe this whole ethnic cleanse you people are on about isn;t such a bad idea.

why ruin a perfect evolutionary ****** with the inferior barbaric variety.

 

[PoliticalNick]

NATO and Ukraine officially signed an agreement that anyone, even a peripatetic ex-president, can find on NATO’s website. All five states party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons gave Ukraine security assurances in return for Ukraine giving up its nuclear weapons.

That agreement was reaffirmed on August 21, 2009:

“In addition to the regular consultative and cooperative meetings set out in the Charter, the NUC [NATO Ukraine Council] will be convened following a request from Ukraine if Ukraine perceives a direct threat to its territorial integrity, political independence, or security, in line with paragraph 8 of the Partnership for Peace Framework Document.”

We owe them.

I owe them nothing, especially the lives of my children. You may be willing to send your children to die in a foreign land but I am not. What I normally find with people that support this kind of waste of Canadian resources and lives is that they do not have a dog in the fight. I imagine you are too old to go Pete and you don't have any kids or grandkids that could be conscripted either. Were it that you or your immediate family would be over there dying when the sh*t hits the fan you would probably not be so supportive. I find it quite arrogant and immoral you are so cavalier with other peoples lives....if it means so much to you arm up and get your a$$ over there in the firing line but don't you dare tell me to send my kids.

 

[mentalfloss]

People who are afraid of Russia invading Canada think it's a good idea to start a military conflict with Russia.

And I'm the fukked up one here?

 

[Spade]

Oh, what a lovely war.
Hundreds of millions or more killed, because the Austro-Hungarian Empire is gone. Seems a little illogical, Kirk.
The Bomb Run Sequence from Dr. Strangelove - YouTube