You tell me. It's been shown that methane contamination is higher around active gas wells, where is the point of entry? Bad casing? Natural cracks in the rock ? Cracks formed by frakking ?
North American Shale
- Thread starter EagleSmack
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You tell me. It's been shown that methane contamination is higher around active gas wells, where is the point of entry? Bad casing? Natural cracks in the rock ? Cracks formed by frakking ?
Cool shiny new trucks paid for from provincial insurance. Who wins?FRacking has caused mass hysteria in New Brunswick, Petros, with emissions from burnt fracturing company trucks noted...
Are people drinking from it or is it just gas contaminated?
It's not from fracturing. There would be fluids and brine along with the gas wouldn't there?
Drinking water contamination seems to be generating the lion's share of the complaints.
True, but this is one report of many. It would be smart to review a number of sources to get a more encompassing view of the real extent of the problem. But then you are faced with assessing the veracity of the reports, it would be prudent to assume that in a lot of cases the authors are slanting their presentation to support their own position. Not likely that a report from the president of ENCAN is going to read the same as one from David Suzuki, right?
This impartial scientific source says otherwise...
Fracking Water Contamination Attorneys: Parker Waichman LLP
That said, I lived in Lynnwood during the Great Imperial Oil site clean up legal dodge ball game. Lynnwood Ridge was heavily contaminated by spreading waste from the refinery , done by the 'low bid contractor'.
Then they spread 4 inches of dirt and sold off the lots. THAT cost them 72 million and counting in fines. LOTS of bad history..by Canada's largest Oil and Gas company.
Did they test water that was being used to drink or just water in an aquifer?
Both I believe, depends who is doing the study. Some set up independent wells specifically for monitoring water quality, some are testing residential wells. I tend to take the more sensationalist stuff with a grain of salt, the flaming tap sort of stuff, but there is no shortage of people who feel they have a good basis for a lawsuit. That in itself would be an indication of the credibilty of the information. There are a number of high profile cases in the courts right now that have the attention of many but it's also a cause for concern that the oil and gas companies involved are playing "delay and evasion" games rather than meeting the accusations head on.
There are multiple decades of info - that's plenty of effort... Time for you (or group) to apply your time, money and resources to prove a point
Like TB indicated, define the problem in terms of cause/effect.... In order for any solution to be tabled, clear definition of the problem is essential.
At this point, all that is happening is that you are arbitrarily assessing causation to fracking without any basis to do so.... By the way, an unconfiormed relationship doesn't count as causation.
That said, seeing how you are so passionate about this, put up your own time and money and generate some deliverables... Perpetually demanding that others do it is a cop-out
I get it. You're okay with the status quo. I'm not. And mainly because the conditions are rapidly changing in terms of the sheer volume of gas extraction both already underway and proposed. You keep saying the information is out there. I ask where and you tell me to go find it myself. That tells me either the information is not out there, or it is but it's not the kind of information that supports your position. One thing is plain, I don't stand much of a chance of learning anything from you. I'll keep looking on my own thanks.
I really don't know.
As it stands, the info is already there... It's a fool's errand to continually reinvent the wheel simply because there is a lobby that is unhappy with the existing results.
That's the only point that really needs to be articulated at this point... Bring something of substance to the table and then maybe there's something to talk about or investigate
Keep up the good fight,Nick.
Waste disposal in the oil industry has come a long way - but when they slip, they can get bloody nasty.
A lot of my neighbours in LynnView Ridge sold out cheap to Imperial because they were 'ground down' and didn't want to raise their kids in Calgary's answer to Love Canal. Only a few, along the river, ( Lynnview ridge Drive ) got the full dirt removal and the cash settlement.
Soil contamination saga ends for Calgary neighbourhood - Calgary - CBC News
157 little guys cashed in at the 'discount settlement'.
Not so much a fight at this point hunboldt, more of a search for information as to just where to weigh in. I certainly understand the continued need for dependable energy supplies, but now more than ever the question "At what cost?" goes unanswered.
You have to keep really close control over the downstream waste disposal process, T- Bones, as its always handled by the lowest bid contractor. Just ask the 170 plus homeowners on Lynnview ridge who's kids got a healthy dose of Lead, benzene, and Gawd knows what else in the 1970- late 1990s.
Hey you can sue:
the spreader contractor? long dead, company dissolved.
Newfeld Homes Ltd.- Heck- dissolved in 1987!
Devonian Properties- Heck no, we sold the land to Newfeld!
Imperial oil- EXXON? Heck no, we sold the site to Devonian!
All together Boys- 'We didn't KNOWWWWWWWWWW!!" "It's not our FAULTTTTTTTTTTTTT!!"
Really ? What have I been saying since petros raised the subject of frakking in the first place ? Proceed with caution.
Both By both agencies.
The concern ,Petros, is that the financing for Junior o and g firms is so thoroughly wrecked, investors stay away in droves. So cash strapped firms cut corners - dodgy disposal contractors, poor casing pours, etc.
TEH basic science of hydraulic fracturing is good.
Doesn't make any sense... Those same small O&G's can't afford to skimp on the important things that will reflect on the boepd.... A conscious decision to do that reflects on the daily production that directly translates into the sale-ability of the asset or the cash flow values.
Doesn't mean it won't happen, but it's most likely the exception as opposed to the rule... No one can afford to do that, especially the small guys
CM,I honestly wish you were right.
REDSTAR is a complicated story. However, ESSO/Exxon at Lynnview Ridge was a 'gamble' on getting away with toxic waste disposal that no sane corporation indulges in
Much less the largest firm in Canada. I was fortunate - my home was on virgin pasture. 72 million in penalties- the huge cost of buying and tearing down 235 homes- the ongoing remediation cost- against saving a few bucks on proper disposal at Swan Hills- why?
I asked a Hong Kong investment analyst for his opinion after the dust had settled. He said that Hong Kong markets apply the 'western Canadian premium' - 7%- BC, 5- Alberta Sask, 4- Manitoba, over and above any investment in the developed world as 'excess undisclosed risk'.
It appears to be an attitude that 'trickles down'.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/story/2006/07/28/lynnview-cleanup.html
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I'm not clear on this, how would after-the-fact costs like waste water disposal have an effect on boepd, a measure of production ?
I think that CM is referring to the Bad casing pours at Cabot oil and Gas .
After the Lynnview ridge saga I just stopped investing in the industry. I've concluded that if ESSO can't control its inside cowboys, - who can?
Arthur Miller in 'All My Sons' wrote:
“Dad...you did it? (Shocked but keeping voice down) You did it to the others? You sent out a hundred and twenty cracked engine-heads and let those boys die! How could you do that? How? (Voice rises with anger) Dad...Dad, you killed twenty-one men! You killed them, you murdered them. (Becomes more furious) Explain it to me. Explain to me how you do it? What did you do? (Pause) Explain it to me goddammit or I will tear you to pieces! I want to know what you did, now what did you do? You had a hundred and twenty cracked engine-heads, now what did you do? Why'd you ship them out in the first place? If you knew they were cracked, then why didn't you tell them?”
― Arthur Miller, All My Sons
“Mother: What more can we be?
Chris: You can be better! Once and for all you can know there's a universe of people outside and you're responsible to it, and unless you know that you threw away your son because that's how he died.”
“...he'll come back. We all come back, kate. These private little revolutions always die. The compromise is always made. In a peculiar way. Frank is right-- every man does have a star. The star of one's honesty. And you spend your life groping for it, but once it's out it never lights again. I don't think he went very far. He probably just wanted to be alone to watch his star go out.”
―
“Do I raise the dead when I put him behind bars? Then what'll I do it for? We used to shoot a man who acted like a dog, but honor was real there, you were protecting something. But here? This is the land of the great big dogs, you don't love a man here, you eat him!”
― Arthur Miller, All My Sons
15 years ago I thought that I had it 'figured out'- investment wise. Now I just avoid them...
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There's more to Lynnview Ridge than made the local news.... I had a friend with Komex that was integral in that project and when you dig into the details, you'll understand that the city is more at fault than anyone else.
To cut to the chase on that site; once the tank farm was decommissioned and remediated to the standard set by the prov/city - the result is that the land was supposed to be zoned only for light commercial/industrial.... We now know, after the fact, that it had greater worth (muni taxes) as residential and was developed accordingly.
There's more to this story, but that is one where the oil company followed the rules and got burned... (btw - ask yourself why it was a quickie investigation where the company didn't really fight at all - you may be surprised with the speculative analysis)
When I refer to after-the -fact costs are things like skimping on cementing or casing (that could, maybe, result in upper zone contamination)... Skimping on those costs will have an impact on the integrity of the well and affect the number of boepd that are extracted... Think of slicing a cut in a straw and then drinking soda through it - not as effective as a non-cut straw. This has a direct result on the value of the well (production) let alone proving-up the field.
In addition, as a general description, an oil reserve, in order to exist as an economically viable opportunity, has a 'cap rock' (zone) and a base rock... That oil needs to be 'trapped' by other (denser) geologic formations such that is it contained in an area.... Although possible, fracking through the base/cap rock is possible, it would screw the formation and allow the oil to migrate elsewhere into zones that the company may not have the rights to (or reasonable ability to extract from).
The higher the boepd and longer that they can argue that the reserve will exist has a big impact on what they can sell it for... The message being, saving a few bucks on the front-end will potentially cost them a strong multiple of that 'savings' on the back end.
Also, waste water wells are also regulated - there is an entire industry that is dedicated to supplying 'injection services' (waste water) that are approved by the AEUM/AEP.... It's not as simple of punching a hole in the ground and jamming the water into it.