Was Judas Jesus’ hero and most trusted disciple?

[French Patriot]

Why do you ask?

To correct those who read scriptures without knowing what terms like sop mean.
They call the good of Judas evil.

The same knee jerk reaction that some will see in this story.

They Shoot Horses, Don't They ? Final scene - YouTube

Regards
DL

 

[DaSleeper]

It's not only them. It's the ones who understand that it matters, it's probably the largest single historical and cultural influence on what we are pleased to call western civilization. You'll never make sense of history or literature or any other important parts of the world you live in if you don't know about the Bible's role in them.

To study the scriptures of Christianity or Islam or Buddhism or any religion that has had an influence on civilization throughout our history, is very commendable indeed but to have an obsession about it like the OP; and to c/p posts about it in multiple forums ad nauseum, or to pontificate about such knowledge to others who don't share that obsession, and consider their religion, or lack of it is more an introspection of their personal beliefs or lifestyle doesn't seem to me so commendable.

So I figure I'm allowed to disagree with those posts.....as much as those who agree with them!

 

[French Patriot]

I like disagreement with an argument against.
That is what debate is all about.

Way too many here just throw stones as they run away withouteven trying to refute the premise made.

That is a character defect usually found in the young and stupid.

Regards
DL

 

[DaSleeper]

Just remember the fly......

 

[hunboldt]

I like disagreement with an argument against.
That is what debate is all about.

Way too many here just throw stones as they run away withouteven trying to refute the premise made.

That is a character defect usually found in the young and stupid.

Regards
DL

I finally worked it out, Frenchie.....
you worship U -tube..

 

[Sal]

Why do only religious fanatics and atheist so love to discuss the Bible???????

Normal people don't really feel that need.......

I am laughing, you don't like when others discuss these topics but you never fail to appear in every thread several times attempting to dissuade others from discussing. it... and everyone just posts around you... it's kinda amusing... and I don't mean that in a nasty way.


the reason religious fanatics, atheists and people like me who are no longer Christian but spiritual love to discuss the Bible is because; fanatics feel the need to defend their position and wish all to think like them, the rest of us love to discuss it because we have reached no solid conclusion so if something were to arise to make us think otherwise we would be open to it. Others like to challenge people. If one's stance is strong a challenge is interesting. I find these threads fascinating because I love to read about different perspectives.

Religious scholars discuss the bible all the time...get five theologians in a room and you will get five different opinions as well.

 

[Spade]

The argument about Judas as hinted at in the original post is not new. If Jesus's mission was not as a teacher but as a sacrificial lamb/scapegoat offered up for man's redemption, in a vein similar to animal sacrifices described in the Old Testament and extant among many early peoples in an attempt to propitiate their god(s), then Judas's role was central to man's redemption. He was a tool of the Divine to effect the mission and hence blameless.

Bump

 

[Cliffy]

Religious scholars discuss the bible all the time...get five theologians in a room and you will get five different opinions as well.

That is because every sect has its own theologians. Very few sects agree, that is why there are so many of them. I have had discussions with a few and found most of the time I knew more about the subject than they do because most don't read anything outside writings that support the bible as the word of god theory. Most Christians don't know and don't want to know the history and its connection to religions that went before it.

 

[Sal]

That is because every sect has its own theologians. Very few sects agree, that is why there are so many of them. I have had discussions with a few and found most of the time I knew more about the subject than they do because most don't read anything outside writings that support the bible as the word of god theory. Most Christians don't know and don't want to know the history and its connection to religions that went before it.

I think part of the reason for that is because to question it involves the loss of your soul...if you believe that how can you question it without thinking you are damned for eternity...that is a very heavy threat... can't think of anything bigger actually...it's pretty radical to question that...

kids will but adults, not so much... and then it would depend upon the kid's environment and the fear level of the parent

 

[Cliffy]

I think part of the reason for that is because to question it involves the loss of your soul...if you believe that how can you question it without thinking you are damned for eternity...that is a very heavy threat... can't think of anything bigger actually...it's pretty radical to question that...

kids will but adults, not so much... and then it would depend upon the kid's environment and the fear level of the parent

True, but it was precisely that that made me question the belief in a loving god that would torcher me for eternity if I did not bow down a kiss his azz every day. I figured real early that any being capable of creating a universe but who needed constant adoration must be awfully insecure, and its need to punish seemed rather sadistic to me, even in Grade 1. At first I rejected god but eventually found a more reasonable way to have a personal relationship with my creator. To me the god of the bible is a man made concept. Like I always say, if you want to know the truth, go straight to the source. Nobody or any book can teach you that. You have to take that journey yourself.

 

[French Patriot]

On the mark Cliffy.

Regards
DL

 

[hunboldt]

I am aware of that. All I'm saying is that it is not the only path. There are many. In the end it is the one that most suits the individual that counts. Most Christians think that it is all about worship and not about going in the direction it is pointing. In the end, it is a personal spiritual journey; a road less traveled, not the super highway of religion.

Catholicism,( to pick the example I am most faamiliar with) aftfer three hundred years went from being an 'underground slave/oppressed movement' to beignthe Backbone of the Roman system rather quickly. Romansd liked pomp & ritual in their religions - the flashie3r the better....

Therefore youhave the mantra of Mary , Ever Virgin, for example, - found no where in scripture ( needign some convoluted explaining for the Brothers of Jesus, who show up in scripture, coupled to thg whammo power of Vestal virginity, which the Romans were quite familiar with...

as new advent explains it...
As to Mary's virginity after her childbirth, it is not denied by St. Matthew's expressions "before they came together" (1:18), "her firstborn son" (1:25), nor by the fact that the New Testament books repeatedly refer to the "brothers of Jesus". [66] The words "before they came together" mean probably, "before they lived in the same house", referring to the time when they were merely betrothed; but even if the words be understood of marital intercourse, they only state that the Incarnation took place before any such intercourse had intervened, without implying that it did occur after the Incarnation of the Son of God. [67]

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: The Blessed Virgin Mary

"We don't really know' was not a roman concept..

 

[Sal]

True, but it was precisely that that made me question the belief in a loving god that would torcher me for eternity if I did not bow down a kiss his azz every day. I figured real early that any being capable of creating a universe but who needed constant adoration must be awfully insecure, and its need to punish seemed rather sadistic to me, even in Grade 1. At first I rejected god but eventually found a more reasonable way to have a personal relationship with my creator. To me the god of the bible is a man made concept. Like I always say, if you want to know the truth, go straight to the source. Nobody or any book can teach you that. You have to take that journey yourself.

totally with you on that...I have never doubted his existence but I could never come to terms with my churches presentation of him and in my little child's heart, always thought I knew better than what was being taught to me. If god was my father how could he treat me less than my own father who adored me? How could he be harsher than a parent figure when I erred?

I knew he couldn't, thus I slowly moved from the churches teachings. I do find there is great value in them. I also have found over the years that pastoral love and teaching can also differ radically from the church's presentation and thus respect that and find much good in it. Think it is great for many, but just not for me.

 

[hunboldt]

Although the evidence is scarce, I will accept that he (or they) may have existed. The myth comes with the deification of the Christ.

List of people claimng to be Jesus:
List of people claimed to be Jesus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[L Gilbert]

Why do only religious fanatics and atheist so love to discuss the Bible???????

Normal people don't really feel that need.......

"Normal" people don't feel the need to discuss a lot of stuff. So? "Normal" people might like discussing QE2's taste in hats, or Robin William's taste in sneakers, what the best way to BBQ a steak is, or whatever. Why do they do that? Maybe because they are interested in it, ya think?

 

[DaSleeper]

I am laughing, you don't like when others discuss these topics but you never fail to appear in every thread several times attempting to dissuade others from discussing. it... and everyone just posts around you... it's kinda amusing... and I don't mean that in a nasty way.


the reason religious fanatics, atheists and people like me who are no longer Christian but spiritual love to discuss the Bible is because; fanatics feel the need to defend their position and wish all to think like them, the rest of us love to discuss it because we have reached no solid conclusion so if something were to arise to make us think otherwise we would be open to it. Others like to challenge people. If one's stance is strong a challenge is interesting. I find these threads fascinating because I love to read about different perspectives.

Religious scholars discuss the bible all the time...get five theologians in a room and you will get five different opinions as well.

I guess you don't know me......If you did... you would know that I usually say what I mean and mean what I say...and while I don't go out of my way to be obnoxious, I am very politically incorrect, I strive to be polite, but couldn't care less about winning a popularity contest,;-)

If anything turns me off it's hypocrisy and showboating....:smile: