Manitoba aboriginal group squanders flood millions

[EagleSmack]

Considering how comprehensively the Europeans disrupted the economies that were here, it's hardly surprising.

How did we do with disrupting the wars and land grabs that were going on in the Americas between tribes?

Anyone who knows history knows that Massasoit didn't help the English settlers because he felt bad for them. He knew they would make a good ally against Narragansetts. He was right.

Just consider the Europeans the latest tribe on the scene and you'll feel better.


"Squanto lived with the colonists and acted as a middleman between the Pilgrims and Massasoit, the Wampanoag sachem. For the Wampanoag, the ten years before the arrival of the Pilgrims was the worst time in their history. They were attacked from the north by Mi'kmaq warriors who took over the coast after their victory over the Penobscot in the Tarrantine War (1607–1615). At the same time, the Pequot came from the west, and occupied portions of eastern Connecticut."

 

[captain morgan]

I'm sure they did. "Beat the Indian out of the Indian" was a rallying cry for the majority of Canadians. The ends justify the means and all that, what!

The majority of Canadians, eh?

I suppose that you NEED to believe that in order to justify your position

How did we do with disrupting the wars and land grabs that were going on in the Americas between tribes?

Just consider the Europeans the latest tribe on the scene and you'll feel better.

Damned inconvenient of you to shed that kind of perspective on this issue.... Damned inconvenient

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

How did we do with disrupting the wars and land grabs that were going on in the Americas between tribes?

Anyone who knows history knows that Massasoit didn't help the English settlers because he felt bad for them. He knew they would make a good ally against Narragansetts. He was right.

Just consider the Europeans the latest tribe on the scene and you'll feel better.


"Squanto lived with the colonists and acted as a middleman between the Pilgrims and Massasoit, the Wampanoag sachem. For the Wampanoag, the ten years before the arrival of the Pilgrims was the worst time in their history. They were attacked from the north by Mi'kmaq warriors who took over the coast after their victory over the Penobscot in the Tarrantine War (1607–1615). At the same time, the Pequot came from the west, and occupied portions of eastern Connecticut."

Yep, heard that one before too. "The Indians had wars among themselves, therefore it was perfectly appropriate to wipe them out."

In another thread, you're glorifying D-Day. I take it you think the Germans were the bad guys in WWII? Why? By the standard you've just propounded, England and France, having engaged in wars in the past, deserved to be invaded and occupied.

 

[petros]

The majority of Canadians, eh?

I suppose that you NEED to believe that in order to justify your position



Damned inconvenient of you to shed that kind of perspective on this issue.... Damned inconvenient

As soon as everyone found out about money for residential schools, millions suddenly became victims.

My favourite was "they made us clean the dorms and do our own laundry or we didn't get ice cream". No sh*t. It's called "housekeeping" and it's part of dorm life since time immemorial.

She had no clue that the real reward wasn't ice cream.

 

[captain morgan]

As soon as everyone found out about money for residential schools, millions suddenly became victims.

No doubt... I recall that there were all kinds of claimants that demanded compensation as their grand mother/father were part of that system and the ill effects had transcended multiple generations...

... You can make my cheque payable to 'cash'.

My favourite was "they made us clean the dorms and do our own laundry or we didn't get ice cream". No sh*t. It's called "housekeeping" and it's part of dorm life since time immemorial.

She had no clue that the real reward wasn't ice cream.

It's a culture of labouring to identify themselves as the perpetual victim - obviously not all FN peoples, but for a recognizable demographic.

Too bad that the resi schools weren't run by Chief Clarence Louie.... They might have had something really significant to bitch about

 

[petros]

For my people they (Canadian Gov) took away the fathers, mothers and the kids in handcuffs and enslaved them. All got we got was a lousy plaque and not even a lick of ice cream.

In this one we see the poor abused Natives taking a tour of the facilities that my enslaved people built.

Where is my cheque?

 

[hunboldt]

How did we do with disrupting the wars and land grabs that were going on in the Americas between tribes?

Anyone who knows history knows that Massasoit didn't help the English settlers because he felt bad for them. He knew they would make a good ally against Narragansetts. He was right.

Just consider the Europeans the latest tribe on the scene and you'll feel better.


"Squanto lived with the colonists and acted as a middleman between the Pilgrims and Massasoit, the Wampanoag sachem. For the Wampanoag, the ten years before the arrival of the Pilgrims was the worst time in their history. They were attacked from the north by Mi'kmaq warriors who took over the coast after their victory over the Penobscot in the Tarrantine War (1607–1615). At the same time, the Pequot came from the west, and occupied portions of eastern Connecticut."

Only partially correct. Tribal econom ic power came form whether the tribe had been recently devastated by viral diserase form the 'great endemic pool'.

Up to 90% of the coastal tribes were 'wiped' when paticularily strong strans of smallpox, in particular, arrived. People fled, alliances were dislocated.

the Massacheusetts settlers took over abandoned cleared, fields.

 

[EagleSmack]

Yep, heard that one before too. "The Indians had wars among themselves, therefore it was perfectly appropriate to wipe them out."

No... but the myth of a perfect society free of war and injustice was here before the Europeans arrived to ruin it all is foolish.

It is not perfectly appropriate to wipe anyone out.

In another thread, you're glorifying D-Day.

Liar

I take it you think the Germans were the bad guys in WWII? Why? By the standard you've just propounded, England and France, having engaged in wars in the past, deserved to be invaded and occupied.

Now you're just being silly.

Only partially correct. Tribal econom ic power came form whether the tribe had been recently devastated by viral diserase form the 'great endemic pool'.

Up to 90% of the coastal tribes were 'wiped' when paticularily strong strans of smallpox, in particular, arrived. People fled, alliances were dislocated.

the Massacheusetts settlers took over abandoned cleared, fields.

Yes. And they would not have made it if Massasoit didn't send help to them.

He did that because his Wampanoag tribe was being preyed upon by the Narragansetts and he needed the strength of the settlers.

I love the story of the Chief of the Narragansetts sending a snakeskin full of arrows to the Pilgrims. The Pilgrim sent it back full of bullets. The Narragansetts got the message.

 

[Cliffy]

Only partially correct. Tribal econom ic power came form whether the tribe had been recently devastated by viral diserase form the 'great endemic pool'.

Up to 90% of the coastal tribes were 'wiped' when paticularily strong strans of smallpox, in particular, arrived. People fled, alliances were dislocated.

the Massacheusetts settlers took over abandoned cleared, fields.

That all happened before the settlers arrived. The entire continent was in disarray before the settlers arrived. The first round of plagues happened right after the first Spanish explorers landed in Florida. It reached Hudson Bay withing two years. The history from the original settlers to today was completely skewed because what really happened has only recently come to light with the latest archaeological findings. Most of the wars fought were between invasion and the arrival of the settlers because, with 90% loss of life, most of the agrarian societies fell apart and were forced back to hunter/gatherer societies, causing territorial disputes that were not that prevalent before.

The first explorers encountered fairly sophisticated societies and communities that they mercilesly killed to steal whatever the Spanish considered treasure. Those who managed to survive the original onslaught, died of the diseases left behind. Most of what we think we know about the early history of occupation is false, maybe no intentionally so much as ignorance. Unless someone has been keeping up to date on the latest breakthroughs in archaeology and anthropology, chances are they are full on misconceptions and misinformation.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

No... but the myth of a perfect society free of war and injustice was here before the Europeans arrived to ruin it all is foolish.

A myth to which I have never subscribed. Then again, you also think I'm an Obama supporter.

Go figure.

 

[hunboldt]

A myth to which I have never subscribed. Then again, you also think I'm an Obama supporter.

Go figure.

Youare also, apparently, "Phonecian'
The Saga of Ancient Hebrew Explorers -- Who Really Discovered America?

go figure

Loks like th e Book of Mormon may be slightly 'inaccurate'...

Go figure

 

[EagleSmack]

A myth to which I have never subscribed.

Then you really have no argument then. The Europeans, once they had a foot hold, were a hardier people. They were they latest tribe to hit the shores and it was inevitable. They had gone through their epidemics and simply out muscled the native tribes. They did the same thing that the native tribes were doing to each other... the Europeans were stronger and better at it.

Then again, you also think I'm an Obama supporter.

What are you squawking about? If you say you are not an Obama supporter I believe you. I've already said that in previous posts. Why do you keep harping on this over and over? Are you running out of material so you are simply making it up as you go? What relevance does that even have here?

Then again, you also say I glorified war in the other thread which was false and reeks of desperation.

Go figure.

Yeah... go figure. Back to the drawing board with you.

 

[bill barilko]

Never ever do business with a native band-they feel no need to pay their bills knowing that their Big White Brother-aka the Federal Gubmint-will bail them out.

 

[Cannuck]

Never ever do business with a native band-they feel no need to pay their bills knowing that their Big White Brother-aka the Federal Gubmint-will bail them out.

The business practices of many bands here in Alberta were pretty pathetic 20 - 30 years ago. I know we gave up dealing directly with bands and would only go thru the government.

 

[hunboldt]

Then you really have no argument then. The Europeans, once they had a foot hold, were a hardier people. They were they latest tribe to hit the shores and it was inevitable. They had gone through their epidemics and simply out muscled the native tribes. They did the same thing that the native tribes were doing to each other... the Europeans were stronger and better at it.



Yeah... go figure. Back to the drawing board with you.

If you had stopped there you were 'on to something'... The coastal tribes were hit by 'waves of virus' - when smallpox ahs seriously weakened your economic structure, an epidemic of Typhoid or influenza then wipes it clean.

American indian structures were actually pretty solid, as De Soto found out. If they had had horses, iron, writing, and maybe gunpowder, they could ahve thrown the whites back.

 

[EagleSmack]

If you had stopped there you were 'on to something'... The coastal tribes were hit by 'waves of virus' - when smallpox ahs seriously weakened your economic structure, an epidemic of Typhoid or influenza then wipes it clean.

Some coastal tribes were. One of the reasons the Narragansetts were so strong was because they really weren't affected by the epidemics.

And the epidemics were brought to the coasts by European traders prior to the establishment of the Plymouth colony showing that European trade was already part of the economy in the New World.

American indian structures were actually pretty solid, as De Soto found out. If they had had horses, iron, writing, and maybe gunpowder, they could ahve thrown the whites back.

That is a lot of conjecture and "ifs". Europeans had the technology and the native tribes in the Americas did not. And eventually the tribes did have guns and horses and the whites were never thrown back.

 

[petros]

If, ifs and buts were fruit and nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas.

 

[JLM]

If, ifs and buts were fruit and nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas.

You're a poet!

 

[hunboldt]

Some coastal tribes were. One of the reasons the Narragansetts were so strong was because they really weren't affected by the epidemics.

And the epidemics were brought to the coasts by European traders prior to the establishment of the Plymouth colony showing that European trade was already part of the economy in the New World.

That is a lot of conjecture and "ifs". Europeans had the technology and the native tribes in the Americas did not. And eventually the tribes did have guns and horses and the whites were never thrown back.

You should back the underlined with some proof.

Actually- the Natives of the South East United States threw repeated Spanish conquest attemptss out- until the epidemics hit. De Soto wasn't the first. Most didn't get much of a start- De Vaca, etc. Despite the lack of horses, - etc. Disease was the determinant.

 

[petros]

It's a real task to attack a couple hundred people.

When boat load after boat load started showing up and the odds still far from even, guess who were conquered?