The assault on reason

[Cobalt_Kid]

The Harper government also seems to feel we don't need to participate with other countries at the international level.

John Baird: Canada Not Vying For UN Security Council Seat In 2014

The decision not to mount a new campaign is reflective of a general policy of disengagement from multilateral organizations, Liberal Leader Justin Trudeau suggested.

"We have traditionally and historically had a very strong role to play internationally, including through the UN," he said.

"And the sort of ... collective shrug by this government at the fact that for first time in the history of the UN we didn't win a seat on the UN Security Council, means that there is something going very wrong with this government's approach to international affairs."

So much of the real Canada is being ignored and suppressed in order to create the illusion of a conservative Canada that only really exists in a few minds.

 

[darkbeaver]

I support condemnation of harpers government

 

[L Gilbert]

The Harper government also seems to feel we don't need to participate with other countries at the international level.

BS Free trade agreements of Canada - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

John Baird: Canada Not Vying For UN Security Council Seat In 2014

More like the gov't doesn't consider the UN security council seat to be that important. After all, the UN is a bit of a joke in part.

So much of the real Canada is being ignored and suppressed in order to create the illusion of a conservative Canada that only really exists in a few minds.

lol What is the "real" Canada in international terms?

 

[DaSleeper]

The difference is that you agree with one but not the other. Human nature.

Now tell the truth, and with no deflection.....A yes or a no would even suffice..

Have you ever seen Locutus in the back and forth argumentative posting that the kid seems to be fond of?

 

[Cobalt_Kid]

It's bad enough that the Harper government doesn't want to know the facts when making important decisions that will affect us all, it's worse that it doesn't want us to know the facts.

Muzzling Science: How Tories Control The Message

The Harper government’s iron grip on communications has been acutely felt in federal agencies and departments that engage in scientific research, resulting in a dramatic drop in press releases, the muzzling of scientists, and, in one department at least, a process that flags “negative” interview requests from news media, often leaving them unanswered or denied, internal documents show.

 

[L Gilbert]

It's bad enough that the Harper government doesn't want to know the facts when making important decisions that will affect us all, it's worse that it doesn't want us to know the facts.

Muzzling Science: How Tories Control The Message

I repeat:

Like I said before, you snivel when the goof doesn't reduce the deficit and debt, then you snivel when he makes cutbacks. You rather he do like Martin and kill seniors programs, make cutbacks on federal healthcare and education, etc. ad nauseum? Make up your odd, little mind.
Personally I think he could be doing a better job without messing much with R&D but then federal researchers seem to mostly parrot other researchers anyway. But I forgot, Gliberals love redundancy.

 

[karrie]

Now tell the truth, and with no deflection.....A yes or a no would even suffice..

Have you ever seen Locutus in the back and forth argumentative posting that the kid seems to be fond of?

If he's being abusive, report him. All I see is him consistently countering posts. But then, his posts don't interest me the way they interest all of you, so I admit I don't read them all.

And no, I even PM'ed Loc right away to point out that it wasn't ACTUALLY an assertion that Loc should not be posting threads.

 

[Goober]

Yes, we desperately need another frickin thread for you to tell how much you hate the Conservatives and Harper. I believe there may be a few in the back of the room who didn't hear it the over whelming amount of times you've spewed it already.

Just another installment in the Cobalt Kid show I suppose.

Note that I helped you to that 10. I know you are a 10 but do other members? Oops- I mean Forum Members.

 

[Zipperfish]

Now tell the truth, and with no deflection.....A yes or a no would even suffice..

Have you ever seen Locutus in the back and forth argumentative posting that the kid seems to be fond of?

I haven't been here long enough, but Cobalt Kid doesn't like Harper and gies on about. Locutus seems to be an American teabagger who preferes to communicate through starting threads, but not commenting in them.

 

[Goober]

I haven't been here long enough, but Cobalt Kid doesn't like Harper and gies on about. Locutus seems to be an American teabagger who preferes to communicate through starting threads, but not commenting in them.

A thread on every announcement is a tad overboard- And I ain't no Harper fan.

 

[DaSleeper]

If he's being abusive, report him. All I see is him consistently countering posts. But then, his posts don't interest me the way they interest all of you, so I admit I don't read them all.

And no, I even PM'ed Loc right away to point out that it wasn't ACTUALLY an assertion that Loc should not be posting threads.

That post you're quoting was in answer to Zip who likes to make outrageous statements concerning others such as the reason I prefer Loc's style of posting over the kid is because he figures we are both of the same political persuasion while he tags him as a "Teabagger " supporter

Edit: He doesn't think of him as a supporter, He thinks he is a "Teabagger".....Loc must be having a good laugh with that one :lol:

 

[karrie]

That post you're quoting was in answer to Zip who likes to make outrageous statements concerning others such as the reason I prefer Loc's style of posting over the kid is because he figures we are both of the same political persuasion while he tags him as a "Teabagger " supporter

Edit: He doesn't think of him as a supporter, He thinks he is a "Teabagger".....Loc must be having a good laugh with that one :lol:

You'd posed the same question to me earlier... thus my answering it. I prefer Loc too. I read him way more than I read Cobalt, for the reasons everyone is complaining about. But, I simply don't read him.

If people think that his threads warrant joining, or that he is being abusive, there are better ways to address it than a host of mockery across the forum, and ten people ganging up on him in a thread.

 

[Cobalt_Kid]

You'd posed the same question to me earlier... thus my answering it. I prefer Loc too. I read him way more than I read Cobalt, for the reasons everyone is complaining about. But, I simply don't read him.

If people think that his threads warrant joining, or that he is being abusive, there are better ways to address it than a host of mockery across the forum, and ten people ganging up on him in a thread.

I find that strange, I'm not making personal attacks on anyone here, and the things I'm concerned about regarding the the conservative government aren't directly associated with personal characteristics, it's the actions being taken in Ottawa that will have a lasting effect on all of us that concern me.

It's not my intention to make people uncomfortable or angry, it's to point out that if they truly care about this nation then perhaps they may want to take a closer look at what's been going on whatever their political affiliation. Canadian politics like many other nations has become far too partisan with the result that "winning" has become the central objective even if the final result can be a resounding defeat for everybody.

The bottom line is I do care deeply about this nation and our people even if that makes me unpopular to a movement that seems to want to eliminate that kind of sentiment from what used to be a caring nation.

 

[L Gilbert]

I find that strange, I'm not making personal attacks on anyone here, and the things I'm concerned about regarding the the conservative government aren't directly associated with personal characteristics, it's the actions being taken in Ottawa that will have a lasting effect on all of us that concern me.

It's not my intention to make people uncomfortable or angry, it's to point out that if they truly care about this nation then perhaps they may want to take a closer look at what's been going on whatever their political affiliation. Canadian politics like many other nations has become far too partisan with the result that "winning" has become the central objective even if the final result can be a resounding defeat for everybody.

The bottom line is I do care deeply about this nation and our people even if that makes me unpopular to a movement that seems to want to eliminate that kind of sentiment from what used to be a caring nation.

Foamy, it ain't that. It's the constant insults to people's intelligences, the consistent assumption that you know everyone else's motives, and your repeated attempts to spam everyone into seeing things the way you see them.

 

[Trex]

I find that strange, I'm not making personal attacks on anyone here, and the things I'm concerned about regarding the the conservative government aren't directly associated with personal characteristics, it's the actions being taken in Ottawa that will have a lasting effect on all of us that concern me.

It's not my intention to make people uncomfortable or angry, it's to point out that if they truly care about this nation then perhaps they may want to take a closer look at what's been going on whatever their political affiliation. Canadian politics like many other nations has become far too partisan with the result that "winning" has become the central objective even if the final result can be a resounding defeat for everybody.

The bottom line is I do care deeply about this nation and our people even if that makes me unpopular to a movement that seems to want to eliminate that kind of sentiment from what used to be a caring nation.

I will take what you say as what you believe.
And I choose to believe you do care about our country.
But what you say and what you deeply believe in or believe to be reality is not necessarily true for others.
Because people do not agree with you does not make them ignorant or wrong.
I would ask if you have voted in every available Municipal, Provincial and Federal election that were available?
Have you back-roomed or door-knocked?
If not why not?

You tend to cut'n'paste a lot of left wing media material.
It's tiresome and at the end of the day your just copying someone else's ideas.
And please, keep in mind that some of us believe that all media material is somewhat biased towards an agenda.
If you want to convince me of somthing, then YOU convince me.
I can read print media without your assistence.

You quote
Quote" You're partly right, as Allan Gregg mentions in his talk Canadians have supported Harper do a degree because he claims to offer order in a time of declining hope for the future. We can no longer assume that our lives will be better in material terms than our parents, and this has caused a lot of anxiety.

The problem with Harper over the other leaders is that he's not open to reason or being informed by the best and latest information. He's going on a belief that this country will be better off if he pulls us all to the right of the spectrum and ends the liberal attitudes that most Canadians hold" unquote

Perhaps you believe that quote verbatim.
I don't.
For one there is always hope for the future, after all the future is unknowable.
For two I would suggest that Harper and the Cons most certainly do have access to the best and latest information.
They may however choose to ignore it or not as they see fit.
And for three there is the Liberal attitude that most Canadians hold bit.
Well that's not true at all.
If it was true then we would have a Liberal Government today, would we not?

I think most Canadians are centrists.
Fiscally medium right of center.
Socially slightly to left.
Convince me otherwise.

But please, for the Love of God, stop endlessly posting repetitive thread starters quoting media flunkies.
It's getting old.

 

[Cobalt_Kid]

I will take what you say as what you believe.
And I choose to believe you do care about our country.
But what you say and what you deeply believe in or believe to be reality is not necessarily true for others.
Because people do not agree with you does not make them ignorant or wrong.
I would ask if you have voted in every available Municipal, Provincial and Federal election that were available?
Have you back-roomed or door-knocked?
If not why not?

I don't need to do those things to care about Canada or have the right to express my opinion.

You tend to cut'n'paste a lot of left wing media material.
It's tiresome and at the end of the day your just copying someone else's ideas.
And please, keep in mind that some of us believe that all media material is somewhat biased towards an agenda.
If you want to convince me of somthing, then YOU convince me.
I can read print media without your assistence.

I tend to read a lot of stories and post what I see as objective, unlike you(apparently) I don't have the super ability to go out and collect all the information on my own. And if you're one of these people who see objective reporting as "left wing media" then I'm almost certainly going to start ignoring you.

You quote
Quote" You're partly right, as Allan Gregg mentions in his talk Canadians have supported Harper do a degree because he claims to offer order in a time of declining hope for the future. We can no longer assume that our lives will be better in material terms than our parents, and this has caused a lot of anxiety.

The problem with Harper over the other leaders is that he's not open to reason or being informed by the best and latest information. He's going on a belief that this country will be better off if he pulls us all to the right of the spectrum and ends the liberal attitudes that most Canadians hold" unquote

Perhaps you believe that quote verbatim.
I don't.
For one there is always hope for the future, after all the future is unknowable.
For two I would suggest that Harper and the Cons most certainly do have access to the best and latest information.
They may however choose to ignore it or not as they see fit.
And for three there is the Liberal attitude that most Canadians hold bit.
Well that's not true at all.
If it was true then we would have a Liberal Government today, would we not?

Ignoring what is almost certainly one of the most significant and serious issues in human history is kind of distinctive don't you think and will most likely be a defining characteristic of certain members of the conservative movement for years to come, that is if there are actually people around to share it. And this is based on several years of doing my own research online and in library reading pretty much everything I could on the matter(Climate Change)..so don't have the arrogance to try and tell me it isn't happening or that it isn't serious as some here try to do constantly. It's insulting and very frustrating for someone who's already watched the region where he was born and spent most of his life go through dramatic and negative change. Unless you're of the opinion that there are several classes of Canadians and some of us don't have the right to express serious concerns like this in advance of our own deeply held interests and cares, then stop telling me what I have the right to believe and say.

I think most Canadians are centrists.
Fiscally medium right of center.
Socially slightly to left.
Convince me otherwise.

But please, for the Love of God, stop endlessly posting repetitive thread starters quoting media flunkies.
It's getting old.

I think most Canadians are sane, I think the current government hasn't been acting that way.

I'm not doing it for your benefit, you're obviously of the type that has already decided all the "facts" and you don't have to listen to or allow anyone who disagrees with you to express their views, just like our government. When our "elected" officials actually start listening to reason then people like me won't have to post it.

If you're troubled by reality then by all means stick with the party that clearly wants to avoid it, don't ask the rest of us to abandon reason for insanity just because it's comfortable.

We all watched how tightly the current government has come to controlling access to information and democratic process, anyone who has a problem with Canadian citizen posting legitimate concerns about the effects of that on themselves and the broader Canadian society around them can bite me. I don't like what I see because it hurts me and the culture around me. Things like this, do we really want to be defined as Canadians by how nasty our PM is.

Stephen Harper’s legacy in government may be nastiness: Hébert | Toronto Star

MONTREAL—It is not necessary to espouse the opposition mantra that Canadians deserve better than what Stephen Harper’s Conservatives have been delivering to find that many voters did expect better on election night 2011.
That starts with those who bridged the gap to a Conservative governing majority by switching their vote to Harper in that election. At mid-mandate, polls suggest most of them feel they have been let down .
The latest voting intentions sounding — done by Harris/Decima for The Canadian Press earlier this week — shows the Conservatives in second place, seven points behind the Liberals and more than 10 points down from their 2011 level.

Basically if my opinions don't conform with what's now become PC in Canada and chaps some people off, tough ****. This isn't Russia, China, Zimbabwe or some other place where people are expected to toe the official line or else. Anybody who wants to build that kind of culture after all the sacrifices made to give us the kind of freedoms we have can go to hell as far as I'm concerned, they're being anti-Canadian, just like our PM.

Cheating on elections doesn't make you a good Canadian, or suppressing the truth or groups you don't like, it makes you nasty.

 

[captain morgan]

I think this is such an important issue it deserves its own thread,

... As opposed to the non-important issues that you've clogging these forums with?

Grow up already

 

[Cobalt_Kid]

Anyone who doesn't see this as a problem is part of the problem.

Arnold Amber: What the Government Is Hiding Should Make Canadians "Blush in Horror"

After 65 years, Canada doesn't do too badly on the right to speak freely, but terribly when it comes to the flow of information from our federal, provincial or municipal governments about what they have done. Proud Canadians should blush in horror when they learn that last year Canada ranked number 55 out of 93 countries that have laws that allow requests for documents about what their governments have done. Canada is snuggled just behind the Slovak Republic. Ottawa can still claim, if they want to, that we are ahead of Angola and Thailand -- without mentioning that these two countries are not known for being champions of free speech or a free press.

The whole point of having the kind of system that so many have given so much to create and protect is to allow us all a say and a stake in our future. Something that just a few are seemingly now so committed to denying us.

How conservatives can honestly believe that in and out campaign financing, robocalls, suppression of information and more anti-democratic behaviour by their party aren't important to the people who it robs of their rights and possibly future is beyond me. Are you really that blind.

Constantly ****ing with Canadians just because you can do it has consequences, just ask Kim Campbell.

Because government after government -- Conservative and Liberal -- have refused to do so, seemingly because they believed that the more information that is kept from the public and the media, the better. And that was even before the birth of the Harper government which values information secrecy as high as it does the oil in the sands of Alberta.

And how is it done? By using a number of ruses:
• Delay, delay, delay -- although the law says replies should be made within 30 days, 45% of responses take longer than that, and 23% take longer than 60 days. The record holder for long delays is the Defence Department which took 1.100 days to respond to one request.

I have no doubt that the faux-conservatives(you're certainly not real ones) are going to get their asses handed them in two years, the really disturbing question is, "Will there be anything left to save by then".

 

[WLDB]

This was the first time Ive seen him give any sort of opinion. I knew he was a pollster for a long time and interviewed people. I had read that he was a conservative and had been most of his life. I guess he was PC then, rather than a supporter of the current Conservative party.

 

[SLM]

Note that I helped you to that 10. I know you are a 10 but do other members? Oops- I mean Forum Members.

Noted.

But I'm all the way to eleven now.

You'd posed the same question to me earlier... thus my answering it. I prefer Loc too. I read him way more than I read Cobalt, for the reasons everyone is complaining about. But, I simply don't read him.

If people think that his threads warrant joining, or that he is being abusive, there are better ways to address it than a host of mockery across the forum, and ten people ganging up on him in a thread.

Honestly I see it more as enabling than mocking. Of course it's not unknown for me to take a shot at someone (sarcastically), usually when I have a specific point to make, so I'll not be overly condemning anyone for doing so.

What I am honestly sick to death of, and it gets a little difficult to ignore when it's thread after thread after thread, is the overly sensationalistic, "oh my God but it's just the end of everything", completely over blown, drama queen ramblings. Cabbagesandkings, TeddyBallGame, now CobaltKid.

If this is what passes for discussion, if this is what everyone really wants to spend their time addressing, then I just fricking give up. Maybe there just really isn't anything for me here at all. It gets tiring having to fight through all the bull manure all the time.