‘The justice system failed her’: Nova Scotia teenager commits suicide after being rap

[L Gilbert]

Gilbert,

There is no analysis of the chart that TEC posted.

Wrong. http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/82-624-x/2012001/article/desc/11696-06-desc-eng.htm

I posted the link where TEC's chart is analysed by Canadian experts
which after TEC's chart was analysed, experts determined that teen suicides are in fact up in Canada (as well as in the States)

(apparently you dont read posts well, yet are quick to reply to them.....gotta say ummmm.

I read what you said. I trusted you to repeat what you read in your "expert's" analyses correctly and I responded without looking at your link. The statistics do not lie, though. Between the '70's and 2009 the rate of total teen suicide went down, regardless of female vs. male suicides. Interpret that and dissect it all you want, the numbers don't waiver.

And you are still using the wrong thread to sermonize from your soapbox.

 

[SLM]

To reiterate, it is my belief that we should look for something positive and learn from this unecessary, senseless, horrible tragedy.

I know exactly what your belief is but what you could not possibly know is whether or not this senseless, horrible tragedy has anything whatsoever to do with what you're talking about.

In this case, I would hope it would be for people to be aware of adverse reactions of suicidal tendancies (especially in teens) .......along with continuing to educate about bullying and cyber bullying.

In this case? In this case you have nothing to go on but a vague mention from some reporter that she had some kind of medication. Do you have some inside knowledge that this specific girl would not have taken her own life were it not from some adverse reaction to medication? Do you? Because if you don't, then you are speculating. Using, yes using, this young ladies tragedy to further your own cause.

Les was bang on, it's all about jumping on the soapbox.

 

[no more drugs]

geez Gill....apparently I gave you too much credit...

That said, I will point out to you that the link you provided offers a "description" of a graph, not the "analysis."

and much of suicide stats arent always accurate because of under reporting.. Also (if you contact your provincial medical examiners office, they will likely explain to you that they have an anual cutoff where if information wasnt sent in on time, the figures are never taken in account... they are simply "lost" ......

Furthermore, it is baffling to me that you cant seem to grasp that "adverse side afects" had to have been demonstrated to be recorded...

How can you rule out that this suicide wasnt the result of an adverse reaction?

If you can consider the possibility, why wouldnt you have the expectation for the media to REITERATE these adverse reactions while they are reporting the story??????????

So far we have heard about the effects of bullying, depression, and how other systems failed this young girl.
I too agree with this, but I still have the expectation that the adverse reactions of a drug she was taking LEGALLY, couold have also been a factor.

The more these adverse reactions, are not discussed, the further buried they become.

 

[L Gilbert]

geez Gill....apparently I gave you too much credit...

That said, I will point out to you that the link you provided offers a "description" of a graph, not the "analysis."

life's a bitch.

and much of suicide stats arent always accurate because of under reporting..

So that leaves your analyses of the stats where?

Also (if you contact your provincial medical examiners office, they will likely explain to you that they have an anual cutoff where if information wasnt sent in on time, the figures are never taken in account... they are simply "lost" ......

And you can show where StatsCan is off?
You have heard of margins of error right? Statisticians usually give them.

Furthermore, it is baffling to me that you cant seem to grasp that "adverse side afects" had to have been demonstrated to be recorded...

Wut? How else would people know about them if they haven't been documented? How else would the data show up in pharmacology books and the net and suchlike places? WTF are you talking about?
Sorry, but what I can't grasp is why you insist on inplying that the girl's meds had anything to do with her committing suicide. For all you know, they prevented her from committing suicide earlier.

How can you rule out that this suicide wasnt the result of an adverse reaction?

I haven't ruled it out. I have simply not accepted your word for it that they caused it.

If you can consider the possibility, why wouldnt you have the expectation for the media to REITERATE these adverse reactions while they are reporting the story??????????

Because I don't expect much from the mainstream newsmedia. They aren't exactly diligent to the facts nor do they seem to verify much of their info.

[So far we have heard about the effects of bullying, depression, and how other systems failed this young girl.
I too agree with this, but I still have the expectation that the adverse reactions of a drug she was taking LEGALLY, couold have also been a factor.

I can accept that it might have had some impact. But as I said, for all we know, perhaps her meds delayed her suicide. Why do you seem to leap to the ASSumption that it caused her suicide?

The more these adverse reactions, are not discussed, the further buried they become.

Baloney. As long as a drug is being used there will be someone gaping at the side effects or adverse reactions.

 

[no more drugs]

I know exactly what your belief is but what you could not possibly know is whether or not this senseless, horrible tragedy has anything whatsoever to do with what you're talking about.

In this case? In this case you have nothing to go on but a vague mention from some reporter that she had some kind of medication. Do you have some inside knowledge that this specific girl would not have taken her own life were it not from some adverse reaction to medication? Do you? Because if you don't, then you are speculating. Using, yes using, this young ladies tragedy to further your own cause.

Les was bang on, it's all about jumping on the soapbox.

Talk about soap boxes !

Here you are blabbing and retorting about a tragedy you clearly know very little about...yet you come to the defense of another (exibiting ganglike mentality)

Again, I will reiterate that of course there will not be any way to prove that meds scientifically had anything to do with her suicide, but when is the writing on the wall? We already know suicidal tendancies and ideation is an adverse reaction to psychopharmaceuticals.... why arent these adverse possibilities being pointed out by the media?
Is it because we cant know if the adverse reaction 100 percent could be blamed?

Anyway it is alleged that the teen tried many different medications...

snippet

"Different medications were tried, too, and they didn’t seem to work"

The search for answers amid the grief for Rehtaeh Parsons - The Globe and Mail

Gilbert,

Do not misquote me.. No where have I said that ANY cause of her suicide is certain.

There have been many sugestions of why, she committed suicide in this thread, and I am merely pointed out another possibility..

Why is ok to suggest bullying, cyber bullying etc was the cause, and by your standards it isnt ok to wonder if a drug with a known adverse reaction of inducing suicide ....was the cause of her suicide... sheeesh!

 

[Goober]

Talk about soap boxes !

Here you are blabbing and retorting about a tragedy you clearly know very little about...yet you come to the defense of another (exibiting ganglike mentality)

Again, I will reiterate that of course there will not be any way to prove that meds scientifically had anything to do with her suicide, but when is the writing on the wall? We already know suicidal tendancies and ideation is an adverse reaction to psychopharmaceuticals.... why arent these adverse possibilities being pointed out by the media?
Is it because we cant know if the adverse reaction 100 percent could be blamed?

Of these 20 K how many were contemplating suicide prior to receiving meds.

Of those 20 K that were suicidal, how many are alive today and off meds.

You are a 1 track agenda man.

Teen Suicide Risk Similar Among Antidepressants

April 12, 2010 -- The heightened risk of teen suicide doesn’t vary among users of different antidepressants, a new study finds.

Researchers say the finding supports the FDA’s current "black box" warning on all antidepressants detailing the increased risk of suicide attempts and suicides in children and teens who start to take the drugs. A "black box" warning is the FDA's most severe warning label.

Previous studies have shown that children and teenagers who begin to use SSRI (selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor) antidepressants may have an increase in suicidal thoughts and behaviors, but researchers say this is the first study to compare the child and teen suicide risk among different individual SSRI antidepressants.

The study followed 20,906 children in British Columbia between the ages of 10 and 18 who had been diagnosed with depression and prescribed an antidepressant over a nine-year period.

During the first year of antidepressant use, there were 266 attempted suicides and three suicides.

Researchers found no significant difference in child and teen suicide risk among the five SSRI antidepressants studied (fluoxetine, fluvoxamine, citalopram, paroxetine, and sertraline). Tricyclic antidepressants showed risks similar to the SSRIs.

Overall, the child and teen suicide rate after initiation of antidepressant use among participants in the study was five times higher than the rate reported among all teens aged 13 to 17 in British Columbia, which researchers say reflects the higher suicide risks among the depressed.

"Our analysis supports the decision of the Food and Drug Administration to include all antidepressants in the black box warning regarding increased suicidality risk for children and adolescents initiating use of antidepressants," write researcher Sebastian Schneeweiss, MD, ScD of Harvard Medical School and colleagues in Pediatrics. "Once a decision to initiate pharmacotherapy is made, treatment decisions should be made on the basis of efficacy and less so on the basis of safety. Clinicians should be vigilant in monitoring children and adolescents for whom use of any antidepressant agents is initiated."

 

[L Gilbert]

Gilbert,

Do not misquote me.. No where have I said that ANY cause of her suicide is certain.

I didn't. I said you SEEM to leap to that ASSumption.

There have been many sugestions of why, she committed suicide in this thread, and I am merely pointed out another possibility..

Fair enough.

Why is ok to suggest bullying, cyber bullying etc was the cause, and by your standards it isnt ok to wonder if a drug with a known adverse reaction of inducing suicide ....was the cause of her suicide... sheeesh!

As I keep saying, you can posit all the hypotheses you want. Mine is that after 18 months of bullying, drugs or not, I can see someone just wanting any kind of end to it. And another thing, she apparently didn't need the drugs until some time after
the abuse and bullying started, so it really doesn't look like drugs were the real cause, even IF they did play a role.

And may I remind you of your first words in your first post in this thread

"Sadly, there was no mention in any media that mentioned that she was on antidepressants and antidepressants have the known adverse reaction of suicide.

This is a very sad story in every way. I dont doubt that she would have been in emotional turmoil but I suspect the antidepressants had a huge hand in her suicide."

There was mention that she was on meds, for one thing. And for another there's a massive difference between wondering if her drugs had a role in her suicide and suspecting, "the antidepressants had a huge hand in her suicide".

 

[SLM]

Talk about soap boxes !

Here you are blabbing and retorting about a tragedy you clearly know very little about...yet you come to the defense of another (exibiting ganglike mentality)

Again, I will reiterate that of course there will not be any way to prove that meds scientifically had anything to do with her suicide, but when is the writing on the wall? We already know suicidal tendancies and ideation is an adverse reaction to psychopharmaceuticals.... why arent these adverse possibilities being pointed out by the media?
Is it because we cant know if the adverse reaction 100 percent could be blamed?

There's no way to prove it but you keep saying it anyway.

Anyway it is alleged that the teen tried many different medications...

snippet

"Different medications were tried, too, and they didn’t seem to work"

The search for answers amid the grief for Rehtaeh Parsons - The Globe and Mail

What makes this one sentence....

Different medications were tried, too, and they didn’t seem to work.

so much more relevant and pertinent than these ones.

Ms. Parsons posted a tribute page on Facebook, explaining that her daughter also had been bullied relentlessly, even by friends, after a graphic picture of the alleged attack had circulated on the Internet.The girl never recovered from this, her mother says.

Her uncle, Michael Parsons, says she started receiving crude text messages from boys propositioning her. “She was so hurt by what happened.”

She and her mother went to police, and she gave a statement. But her mother says the investigation triggered even more bullying – and her friends turned against her.

Three weeks ago, Rehtaeh stopped smoking marijuana, which she had used to deal with her anger. ....“But as soon as she stopped smoking pot, the anger started again,” says Ms. Parsons, who suspects this may have led to the suicide attempt.

 

[no more drugs]

I didn't. I said you SEEM to leap to that ASSumption.

Fair enough.

As I keep saying, you can posit all the hypotheses you want. Mine is that after 18 months of bullying, drugs or not, I can see someone just wanting any kind of end to it. And another thing, she apparently didn't need the drugs until some time after
the abuse and bullying started, so it really doesn't look like drugs were the real cause, even IF they did play a role.

And may I remind you of your first words in your first post in this thread

"Sadly, there was no mention in any media that mentioned that she was on antidepressants and antidepressants have the known adverse reaction of suicide.

This is a very sad story in every way. I dont doubt that she would have been in emotional turmoil but I suspect the antidepressants had a huge hand in her suicide."

There was mention that she was on meds, for one thing. And for another there's a massive difference between wondering if her drugs had a role in her suicide and suspecting, "the antidepressants had a huge hand in her suicide".

Gilbert,

I am aware of what I wrote... It is exactly what I just reminded you of... My point is that the possibility of suffering an adverse reaction was never addressed by the media ... In my writing it is clear that I and no one else have any way to prove whether adverse reactions were involved.. That is my point..

 

[L Gilbert]

wow Again, there's a diff between wondering and suspecting. But anyway, I could just as easily have said maybe she visited a phrenologist and he/she told the girl something to make her commit suicide. Whatever, go ahead and do the ifs, ands, and maybes dance all you want. I'm bored with this.

 

[no more drugs]

wow Again, there's a diff between wondering and suspecting. But anyway, I could just as easily have said maybe she visited a phrenologist and he/she told the girl something to make her commit suicide. Whatever, go ahead and do the ifs, ands, and maybes dance all you want. I'm bored with this.

Bored or not, you still want to twist things...

My point is that there was never any mention that adverse reactions and or withdrawal of legal psychopharmaceuticals were never mentioned like usual in so many sad cases. We seem to be told that a person was bullied, or a person was depressed, or they had aspergers, but seldom do we seldom hear the media asking questions about legal mind atlering drugs..... In this case, it was the mother volenteering this ..

Btw, Wayne Carver the medical examiner who did and oversees the Newtown shooter's autopsy just revealed last week, that he is NOT releasing Adam Lanza's toxicology results! More potential lessons down the tubes! at the expense of 20 mere babies and 6 adults!

 

[Goober]

Bored or not, you still want to twist things...

My point is that there was never any mention that adverse reactions and or withdrawal of legal psychopharmaceuticals were never mentioned like usual in so many sad cases. We seem to be told that a person was bullied, or a person was depressed, or they had aspergers, but seldom do we seldom hear the media asking questions about legal mind atlering drugs..... In this case, it was the mother volenteering this ..

Btw, Wayne Carver the medical examiner who did and oversees the Newtown shooter's autopsy just revealed last week, that he is NOT releasing Adam Lanza's toxicology results! More potential lessons down the tubes! at the expense of 20 mere babies and 6 adults!

I think I can summarize all your threads & posts with 3 points.

Wacko on anti-depressants kills people- it is the drugs fault-

Suicidal person on anti depressants commits suicide - it is the drugs fault.

Massive coverup on drug side effects.

Good - Now that we have addressed your limited viewpoint it is time to move along to another thread. Your own thread would be preferable.

 

[Locutus]

via sda:
Rehtaeh Parsons And The Rest Of The Story


Christie Blatchford commits journalism.


Related*





New details in Rehtaeh Parsons case show why police didn’t lay charges



Online messages, witness accounts helped determine police action



It was a dog’s breakfast of a file — with the singular feature, almost unheard of in a sexual assault complaint, of an independent witness — that led police and prosecutors to conclude they couldn’t charge anyone in the Rehtaeh Parsons case.

With information from sources close to the investigation, Postmedia has learned that much of the accepted gospel about the case — teenager is gang-raped, humiliated by the circulation of a cruel picture of the assault, then abandoned by the justice system and driven to suicide — is incomplete.

The 17-year-old attempted to hang herself in the bathroom of her mother Leah Parsons’ home in the Halifax suburb of Cole Harbour on April 4.

Rehtaeh suffered lethal brain damage and three days later was removed from life support.

Her mother turned to Facebook on April 8, the day after her daughter’s death.

“Rehtaeh is gone today because of the four boys that thought that raping a 15-year-old girl was OK and to distribute a photo to ruin her spirit and reputation would be fun,” Parsons wrote in part.


the rest:


Rehtaeh Parsons – police say it wasn’t a sexual assault | canada.com

 

[JLM]

Typical god damn justice system. Nothing else that happened or didn't happen makes those A$$holes any less guilty. Bury them in an ant hill next to the defense lawyers!

 

[petros]

Growing up thinking internet porn is what sex is all about is NFG as well.

 

[Angstrom]

Bored or not, you still want to twist things...

My point is that there was never any mention that adverse reactions and or withdrawal of legal psychopharmaceuticals were never mentioned like usual in so many sad cases.

Because by doing so. You are putting the hole status quo into question.
50% of people really hate that. That's like telling a scientists gravity is not constant
(witch has been proven its not) but don't tell him that. It's just asking for a fight.

You are dealing with those kinds of people right now.
The close minded kind.

 

[Sal]

well now the big twist is...she apparently consented and then regretted it

 

[no more drugs]

well now the big twist is...she apparently consented and then regretted it

In growing up, and becoming adults we continue to learn the difference between right and wrong (as well as consequences)
and reactions to any actions...

There are many different aspects of this sad story and like I wrote in posts above, on another aspect ( the possibility that antidepressants adverse reactions caused the ideation and outcome of suicide) I feel that it is imperative these tragic stories bring lessons to the public. Obviously nothing will bring this lovely girl's life back, so the least we can do is not let her tragic demise go away without taking something to help others.

It is cases like this where I personally am glad that the justice system allows youths to be tried differently.

On an adult level, we all know that a drunk person is not in the position to make good judgement calls however adults are and need to be held accountable for making a bad call (DUI) ....

When we look at the allegation (in this case) allegedly she was drunk and any consent in any choice would have been looked at by an adult as ridiculous.

The boys in this case, acted like bad boys where it would be clear that they made horrible judgement calls as well. (sober or not) ..

The behavior in so many teens surrounding this case is deplorable, and one would wonder what kind of children they were to have become such mean spirited teens who would exibit such hateful behavior against another peer. (the boys and the bullies)

In any case, because this has been such a high profile case where the loss of a young girl who took her own life where so many levels of society failed her, could all be blamed and put on the plate of these boys.

I do not condone their behavior in any aspect however I see that these boys could be used as the scapegoat where punishing them (potentially as adults) could be the end result so to alleviate the responsibility of many different areas of society so to ignore and never look at other factors who in my opinion were more to blame...where the scapegoats will distract.. These boys arent the only ones who should be punished.

In other words, the focus on the boys, will stunt society's potential learning by protecting so many other areas like never exploring whether antipharmaceuticals were being taken or withdrawn from, where the possibility of an adverse reactions led the girl to take her life. The school's blind eye for not looking into what was going on with the student body by using the poor excuse of not wanting to interfere with law enforcement. The families of the boys, and every bully who didnt know what was going on......The mental healthcare system for not recognizing the seriousness of the issue ..

There are so many different aspects of how we can learn from this tragedy and I would hate to see teenage boys hold the entire bag by distracting away the responsibilty of so many adults in so many other areas.

 

[spaminator]

Rehtaeh Parsons' father receives death threat

By Sheena Goodyear ,QMI Agency

First posted: Friday, August 23, 2013 09:46 AM EDT | Updated: Friday, August 23, 2013 09:55 AM EDT

An anonymous online commenter told Rehtaeh Parsons' father he'll be "going to visit" his dead daughter if he keeps being "lippy."
Glen Canning told QMI Agency police are investigating the death threat.
"I believe it was made by a local person who has knowledge of our case," Canning said. "I am concerned, but not scared."
The threat, made on Canning's YouTube channel, comes from a user called "iamkarma902," who has no bio and has never posted any videos.
He has, however, commented numerous times on Canning's feed, making disparaging remarks about Rehtaeh Parsons and denying her rape allegations.
Canning has been outspoken about his daughter's case online.

Rehtaeh Parsons' father receives death threat | Canada | News | Toronto Sun