Quebec Language Police Are Mysteriously Drawn to Italian Establishments

[s_lone]

Hey, that's not funny. I'm worried about s_lone now!

All kidding aside...

It's all well and good to make light of it s_lone, but the language cops are harassing businesses, big and small.

Whether you care to see that for what it is or not, really doesn't change the fact that it's abhorrent.

While the recent examples that have gone through the media are clearly the result of totally unjustified and paranoid overzealousness, you know I support the idea that we need language laws to protect French in Quebec. I don't necessarily agree with all aspects of the law and surely not in the way it has often been applied with lack of common sense but at the end of the day, I'm one of those ''nazis'' that believe we do have to take legal and political measures to protect French.

I've already stated my case clearly in another thread but here's a short summary.

If history had somehow been different and Quebec was a country today, French would most probably be the only official language. In that case, I think most here would actually consider it normal for a francophone country to expect immigrants to learn French through a francophone education in school. After all, isn't it normal for folks in France to be required to go to French school?

The problem with Quebec is that it's part of Canada and that as Canadians we have two official languages. Beyond the abuse and overzealousness (which I admit is real and problematic) what truly pisses off the rest of Canada is that Quebec is willing to partly ignore this double status and insist French is the only official language of Quebec. It's a refusal to absolutely comply to the principles of Canada and that is what pisses off many Canadians.

Of course, the best way to for French to thrive is for us to teach it better. Lots of work needs to be done to improve our education system (which doesn't mean it's a bad one per se!). But that's not enough... Not in Quebec's North-American context.

 

[gerryh]

If history had somehow been different and Quebec was a country today, French would most probably be the only official language. In that case, I think most here would actually consider it normal for a francophone country to expect immigrants to learn French through a francophone education in school. After all, isn't it normal for folks in France to be required to go to French school?

The fact is though, that Quebec is NOT an independent country. It is merely another province in the Canadian Confederation. Therefore, the "what if's" matter not.

The problem with Quebec is that it's part of Canada and that as Canadians we have two official languages. Beyond the abuse and overzealousness (which I admit is real and problematic) what truly pisses off the rest of Canada is that Quebec is willing to partly ignore this double status and insist French is the only official language of Quebec. It's a refusal to absolutely comply to the principles of Canada and that is what pisses off many Canadians.

No, what pisses off the ROC, is the fact that our politicians give in too easily to the whining quebecois.

 

[Machjo]

While the recent examples that have gone through the media are clearly the result of totally unjustified and paranoid overzealousness, you know I support the idea that we need language laws to protect French in Quebec. I don't necessarily agree with all aspects of the law and surely not in the way it has often been applied with lack of common sense but at the end of the day, I'm one of those ''nazis'' that believe we do have to take legal and political measures to protect French.

1. Why do we need laws to protect French in Quebec, and
2. Would the same arguments you apply to 1 above also apply to the local indigenous language, and why or why not?

I've already stated my case clearly in another thread but here's a short summary.

If history had somehow been different and Quebec was a country today, French would most probably be the only official language. In that case, I think most here would actually consider it normal for a francophone country to expect immigrants to learn French through a francophone education in school. After all, isn't it normal for folks in France to be required to go to French school?

Who decides that it's a francophone country? What specific criteria are to be applied? And again, how would this translate to the local indigenous language?

The problem with Quebec is that it's part of Canada and that as Canadians we have two official languages. Beyond the abuse and overzealousness (which I admit is real and problematic) what truly pisses off the rest of Canada is that Quebec is willing to partly ignore this double status and insist French is the only official language of Quebec. It's a refusal to absolutely comply to the principles of Canada and that is what pisses off many Canadians.

Strangely enough, excesses aside, there is an advantage to having only one official language. To take an example, whereas an Algonquin-French speaker would be at a disadvantage over an English-French speaker applying for a Federal Job in Gatineau, the same Algonquin-French speaker and English-French speaker would be at a relative more equal footing for a Provincial job in the same city. Of course the employer might take into account the larger local English-speaking population, but whereas in the Federal job it's a given teh English-French speaker wins by law, in the provincial one he wins only if English could actually be of practical use in the job in question. So on that front, I actually agree with Quebec having only one official language, and other provinces could learn from its example on that front and not the other way around.

Of course, the best way to for French to thrive is for us to teach it better. Lots of work needs to be done to improve our education system (which doesn't mean it's a bad one per se!). But that's not enough... Not in Quebec's North-American context.

The same could be said for Algonquin for instance, and again, especially in the Algonquin Nation's North American context.

Of did I miss something in all of this?

 

[Johnnny]

I'm one of those ''nazis'' that believe we do have to take legal and political measures to protect French

+1

You can add, not being very bright to that description also.... You felt obliged to answer my post because your an expert from montreal. BUt yet you couldnt answer the question if Montreal has a china town :lol:



Man when was the last time you heard "English Ontario" cry about the "French" in Hearst....... ???????

Not nearly at the same frequency the KKKbecers cry about the english in MOntreal....

QUEBEC has to wake up and smell the coffee...

If Northern Ontario can stay French outside of KKKBEX without language laws, then that should go to show in a funny way that people can hold onto their culture language etc without laws that harrass law abiding citizens....

History has shown the weak minded need laws that target other cultures.... And if you and whoever else in KKKBEX feel that you need these laws, then forgive me for saying. "Your weak minded"

 

[taxslave]

+1

You can add, not being very bright to that description also.... You felt obliged to answer my post because your an expert from montreal. BUt yet you couldnt answer the question if Montreal has a china town :lol:



Man when was the last time you heard "English Ontario" cry about the "French" in Hearst....... ???????

Not nearly at the same frequency the KKKbecers cry about the english in MOntreal....

QUEBEC has to wake up and smell the coffee...

If Northern Ontario can stay French outside of KKKBEX without language laws, then that should go to show in a funny way that people can hold onto their culture language etc without laws that harrass law abiding citizens....

History has shown the weak minded need laws that target other cultures.... And if you and whoever else in KKKBEX feel that you need these laws, then forgive me for saying. "Your weak minded"

But Quebec's language laws provide many jobs for party faithful whose only other qualification is welfare recipient.

 

[Johnnny]

But Quebec's language laws provide many jobs for party faithful whose only other qualification is welfare recipient

interesting.... Where have i seen something similar before...... hmmmmmmm...... 1930's germany? noooo

Or mabye they just all have art degrees and they had nowhere else to go...

 

[El Barto]

After reading the replies here I am reminded why I shouldn't bother with idiotic political rhetorics

 

[Johnnny]

And after trying to tell Quebec people that they arent a seperate country iam reminded that iam talking to the wall.....

I brought facts, the PRO language police just cried....

The only idiotic thing here is the language police, so one shouldnt be suprsed that the PRO language police crowd is going to get trolled hard....

Move to Arizona, they pass laws targeting other ethnic groups...

If i was supporting this language law, and i had nothing to add but cry then for sure id feel like a dog with its tail between its legs

I know your pidgeon holed because as a french person you feel obliged to protect laws that target specific cultures.....

As an english person id dont feel obliged to stand up for anyone strictly because they speak my language...

I brought facts up VS your crying...... Not you or s_lone tried in any way to refute what ive said, you only cried...

 

[Machjo]

1. Why do we need laws to protect French in Quebec, and
2. Would the same arguments you apply to 1 above also apply to the local indigenous language, and why or why not?



Who decides that it's a francophone country? What specific criteria are to be applied? And again, how would this translate to the local indigenous language?



Strangely enough, excesses aside, there is an advantage to having only one official language. To take an example, whereas an Algonquin-French speaker would be at a disadvantage over an English-French speaker applying for a Federal Job in Gatineau, the same Algonquin-French speaker and English-French speaker would be at a relative more equal footing for a Provincial job in the same city. Of course the employer might take into account the larger local English-speaking population, but whereas in the Federal job it's a given teh English-French speaker wins by law, in the provincial one he wins only if English could actually be of practical use in the job in question. So on that front, I actually agree with Quebec having only one official language, and other provinces could learn from its example on that front and not the other way around.



The same could be said for Algonquin for instance, and again, especially in the Algonquin Nation's North American context.

Of did I miss something in all of this?

Kricket! Kricket!

 

[petros]

Canada should just invade Quebec and get it over with.

 

[Johnnny]

No way man, my city would be the biggest theatre of battle outside of Quebec :lol:

 

[Machjo]

Canada should just invade Quebec and get it over with.

Isn't that what started the problem? Well, it was the British who invaded New France, but same idea.

 

[s_lone]

Kricket! Kricket!

Ever heard of actually having things to do that don't involve being on the internet?

+1

You can add, not being very bright to that description also.... You felt obliged to answer my post because your an expert from montreal. BUt yet you couldnt answer the question if Montreal has a china town :lol:

Considering you don't seem to have grasped the sarcasm in my post, perhaps you should ponder on whether or not you are in a position to judge my intelligence.

And yes, Montreal does have a China town.

*There was no sarcasm in this post*

 

[Machjo]

Ever heard of actually having things to do that don't involve being on the internet?

My apologies if I'm rushing you. But please, I look forward to your response... whenever you're not busy of course.

 

[Johnnny]

Dont rush her, she wont have the time to properly show off her intelligence...

I do question your intelligence, because intelligent people need to be asked twice..... :lol:

I knew you were being sarcastic... But hey KKKBEXers only know how to reply with sarcasm and butt hurt crying when discussing the issue, at hand... This is evidenced by the lack of substance in your whining...

At least "Lazyingin" was able to provide substance in the face of my assualt... And at the end of it we got over it and moved on.... I learned something from him believe it or not.

I will continue to question your intelligence...... But if i aint smarter than you, thats fine.... But i sure as hell run circles around alot of people, and what does it say about them(you).

 

[s_lone]

1. Why do we need laws to protect French in Quebec,

Because language is the backbone of culture and national identity. Lose your language and you lose a significant of the culture that goes with it.

Of course you can ask if French is really threatened and to that I'd say that it certainly is in a fragile position, considering the very strong anglophone environment Quebec is a part of. From my point of view, this anglophone environment IS part of what and who we are. After all, we're North American. Canadian French is filled with references to English and that is inevitable, considering the history of francophones in Canada and the socio-cultural environment they live in. But there's a difference between one's language being strongly influenced by another and slow assimilation. The demographic aspect of this is dealt with by legal measures requiring immigrants (and francophones) to send their children to francophone schools.

and
2. Would the same arguments you apply to 1 above also apply to the local indigenous language, and why or why not?

I'm far from being knowledgable on indigenous issues in general but I'd personally be quite supportive of any attempt to protect and promote their language. I'm pretty sure most people of First Nations would agree that their language is a vital part of their culture.

Who decides that it's a francophone country? What specific criteria are to be applied? And again, how would this translate to the local indigenous language?

Considering at least 80% of Quebecers have French as their mother tongue, the simple principles of democracy makes the choice of the hypothetical country rather obvious. I'm not quite sure how that would translate to the local indigenous language in the hypothetical Quebec scenario. If they'd choose to separate from Quebec, that would no longer be Quebec's concern. If they'd choose to stay we must treat them as fellow citizens and respect their desire to preserve a some form of sovereignty.

It's a complex issue and I don't pretend to have answers about it. All I can say is that as a Francophone, I'm willing to defend the principles of our language laws, which certainly doesn't mean they cannot be improved and that they haven't sometimes been applied stupidly.

Strangely enough, excesses aside, there is an advantage to having only one official language. To take an example, whereas an Algonquin-French speaker would be at a disadvantage over an English-French speaker applying for a Federal Job in Gatineau, the same Algonquin-French speaker and English-French speaker would be at a relative more equal footing for a Provincial job in the same city. Of course the employer might take into account the larger local English-speaking population, but whereas in the Federal job it's a given teh English-French speaker wins by law, in the provincial one he wins only if English could actually be of practical use in the job in question. So on that front, I actually agree with Quebec having only one official language, and other provinces could learn from its example on that front and not the other way around.


The same could be said for Algonquin for instance, and again, especially in the Algonquin Nation's North American context.

Of did I miss something in all of this?

As I said, you certainly won't see me fighting against the protection of indigenous language.

 

[L Gilbert]

Meh, French is no more in danger of disappearing in QC as it is in NB, MB, Louisiana, Haiti, etc. and maybe even France.

 

[Johnnny]

Meh, French is no more in danger of disappearing in QC as it is in NB, MB, Louisiana, Haiti, etc. and maybe even France.

French is in no Danger of dying in Ontario either......

I think the people in Quebec who are crying about how their language being in danger, are just a bunch of attention *****s.

Your crying wolf....

 

[s_lone]

The fact is though, that Quebec is NOT an independent country. It is merely another province in the Canadian Confederation. Therefore, the "what if's" matter not.

No, what pisses off the ROC, is the fact that our politicians give in too easily to the whining quebecois.

Hopefully you'll eventually elect politicians who can appease your anger.

 

[Johnnny]

s_lone your continuing to ignore the facts....
French isnt dying outside of quebec so quit crying wolf