Why Teddy 'Scrooge' Ballgame Didn't Give To The Book Fund

JLM

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TeddyBallgame;1689180 - JLM ... As you bloody well know said:
Well, I don't bloody well know as I haven't had too many "reddies" from Gerry, so I can only assume you are getting them from him in response to assinine statements, which I'm sure you are aware you are well known for. -:)
 

Retired_Can_Soldier

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Mar 19, 2006
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The more books kids read they better equipped they are to meet the world. I have donated many books, although my novel and soon to finished second novel are hardly for youngsters I am all for public access, the betterment schools and library's should be devoid of politics. We spent a lot of time bitching about how upcoming generations aren't learning, well if tossing a couple bucks to a school program is going to improve things I see no reason to turn it down.

I think its best to keep politics, religion, and education separate.
 

Nuggler

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Feb 27, 2006
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The more books kids read they better equipped they are to meet the world. I have donated many books, although my novel and soon to finished second novel are hardly for youngsters I am all for public access, the betterment schools and library's should be devoid of politics. We spent a lot of time bitching about how upcoming generations aren't learning, well if tossing a couple bucks to a school program is going to improve things I see no reason to turn it down.

I think its best to keep politics, religion, and education separate.


If only it would be done, RCS. Probably not in our lifetime.
 

karrie

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The more books kids read they better equipped they are to meet the world. I have donated many books, although my novel and soon to finished second novel are hardly for youngsters I am all for public access, the betterment schools and library's should be devoid of politics. We spent a lot of time bitching about how upcoming generations aren't learning, well if tossing a couple bucks to a school program is going to improve things I see no reason to turn it down.

I think its best to keep politics, religion, and education separate.

Not to mention, that money goes exactly where we want it to, instead of into the teachers' pockets as so many are loathe to see it go.

Interesting point to make regarding modern schools.... my daughter is now in grade seven, and at her current school, she's encouraged to bring her web accessing technology. ipods, nintendo ds's, playstation vitas, tablets, laptops, smart phones... it makes no difference to the teachers. Tech means internet access at their fingertips, and the internet means virtually unlimited learning materials. My daughter reads incessantly on her ipod thanks to the elibrary.
 

L Gilbert

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- Yesterday I visited my neighbourhood Coles bookstore to buy some books for relatives and for my own Christmas reading. (For me I scored Keith Richard's autobiography on sale marked down to $8 from $35 and since I had met and socialized with Keith in Barbados in 1986 I had been meaning to buy the book ever since it came out. Richards is only one month older but much older looking than me and I still chuckle over his comment at the time, "I guess I must have aged a f#ck of a lot in 30 days, mate".)

- Anyhow, when it came time to pay for my books the attractive young woman who was new to the store asked me if I wanted to contribute to the book fund. I asked about the fund and she explained that it was used by Chapters/Coles to provide new books to local schools "since they can't afford all of the books they need".

- I explained to her that I would not be contributing to this book fund because the reason schools had no money to buy books for their students was that about 82 cents of every education dollar went right into the pockets of the teachers and other staff in inflated salaries, extravagant perks and unsustainable pensions, thereby leaving no room in the budget for such trivial things as books, computers, science equipment, new desks and chairs, etc.

- I further explained that during the nine years of gross mismanagement by the departing Ontario premier DOLTon McGuilty, the teachers unions were given - until this year - everything they really wanted and that most teachers in elementary schools now made $92,000 and change and most teachers in seconardy schools made $94,000 and change.

- This intelligent young woman employed in the knowledge business was taken aback and remarked that a teacher she knew, a fellow university graduate, was only making in the low 40s in her first year as a teacher. I explained to her that her friend merely had to show up for the next ten years, stay out of jail and the asylum, take a few easy summer courses and that she would climb automatically and rapidly to the $94,000 plus bracket by the time she completed eleven years of teaching. Of course, I told her, this was the current rate, McGuilty had raised teachers' salaries by over 30% in just eight years, and so the actual rates ten years from now would be way over $100,000.

- Seeing her eyes bug out, I went on to explain that the teachers' pension plan was ridiculously extravagant and clearly unsustainable and that it was worth more than three times what the pension plan of an equivalent private sector professional would be. Under the teachers' plan, I elaborated, one could teach for 35 years and then take early retirement to collect a guaranteed pension of 70% of the average of one's best three teaching years and see this pension increase automatically each year by the cost of living. Given current life expectancies, I observed that more and more teachers wouls actually be able to collect their lavish taxpayer subsidized pensions for several years longer than they had teached. As her eyes bugged out again, I added that these exorbitant public pensions were not merely totally unfair compared with private sector norms but also had driven several US municipalities into bankruptcy with others (e.g. Detroit) to come and were also threatening to bring down California and other US states.

- Having educated my young friend from the knowledge business in the realities of Ontario teachers' deals, I closed by observing that Ontario used to be the unquestioned and runaway leader in the country in terms of educational standards and test results but that the leader almost every year for the past decade was Alberta and that Ontario was frequently found in the bottom half among the ten provinces in achievement tests. This, too, shocked the Coles bookstore employee.

- Perhaps from now on she'll get her national and provincial and local news from several papers and channels rather than just from The Toronto Red Tsar and the Collectives BSing Corporation. But probably not.

- However, at least I got the chance to explain my Scrooge-like refusal to donate to the book fund and to educate this young lady about education in Ontario and why the kids are nothing but pawns and increasingly helpless and penniless pawns in the games the monopoly public sector education unions play.
You like pro sports? Do you support any sports clubs by buying tickets, sportswear with club logos, etc.? Why should these clubs and players be getting $millions every year when all they do is provide a little entertainment and teachers help raise our kids? I guess entertainment is more valuable than kids development.
You seem to like politics, in spite of the fact that politics (along with religion) has caused more grief than anything else on the planet. So do you donate to whatever political club you prefer? Why should politicians get what they get when so many of them screw up the country?
Do you support greedy CEO's (especially any that screw their companies and expect huge severence packages as a reward)?

Attaboy, keep demonizing teachers.

Oh, and BTW, since when is education a gov't monopoly? People home-educate and send their kids to private schools.

I might add that I do agree that SOME unions are out of hand. I was a public employee however and have nothing but respect for the BCPFFA and a couple other firefighters' unions, even though there is a little bit of greed in it, too.
 
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TeddyBallgame

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I might add that I do agree that SOME unions are out of hand. I was a public employee however and have nothing but respect for the BCPFFA and a couple other firefighters' unions, even though there is a little bit of greed in it, too.

- G ... Of course you have nothing but respect for the BCPFFA seeing as how it got you one of the very best heavily publicly subsidized, permanently guaranteed benefits, fully cost of living indexed, early retirement pensions in the entire bloody country and enabled you to take your early retirement on your 50 acres in the Kooteneys. It might shock you to learn that most private sector workers have no pension plan at all and the minority who do have plans that are on average worth less than 30% of yours for the same contribution levels. Instead of 50 acres in the Kooteneys, too many of these unpensioned guys get to work 10-20 years longer than you and get not 50 acres but 50 square feet in a rooming house. But keep pitching to the gullible left wingers out there.

- I won't bother replying to the rest of your silliness since it is merely a regurgitation of public sector union talking points used to justify their special priveleges and treatment at the expense of the tapped out taxpaying schmucks in the private sector other than to say that any support I choose to give to sports teams is voluntary, is based on merit and results, and I get to determine the level of said support. With education, it is compulsory, it is in no way based on merit and results, and the level of support is far higher than for any sports team support I may choose to indulge in and is determined by others with no input from me. So your comparison is specious and nothing more than public sector union propoganda. By the way, I think you'll find that even members of private sector unions are increasiongly catching on to the public sector monopoly union con jobs and how they are costing jobs in the competitive market sector.

- You mentioned some unions being out of hand. These are almost invariably monopoly public sector unions and they are not some but almost all of the public sector monopoly unions. Here is but a typical example from today's press reports and underlines why I don't encourage this fiscal rape of the taxpayers by voluntarily giving even more money to the education bureacracy and thereby helping to buy it even more time to piss all over the rest of us instead of focusing on its productivity and entitlement problems.

TDSB workers used public funds for personal business, manager says

KATE HAMMER - EDUCATION REPORTER

The Globe and Mail

Published Thursday, Dec. 20 2012, 3:00 AM EST

Last updated Thursday, Dec. 20 2012, 4:30 AM EST

Toronto District School Board employees visited bars, bought groceries and filled the gas tanks of their cars using public money and during working hours, according to the manager appointed to crack down on the board’s troubled building management department.

Angelos Bacopoulos, a former manager of the city’s waste management services, was hired just over two years ago as chief officer of facilities. Since then, he says, he has been working to unmake what he described as a deeply seeded culture of entitlement and complacency that pervaded the unionized staff.

What he found was an environment where millions of dollars were spent executing more than 160,000 work orders each year, with so little oversight that employees were able to visit a bar while on the clock.

In recent months, revelations of past overspending on everything from routine maintenance to major construction work at the TDSB have emerged, and the pressure is on Mr. Bacopoulos and his staff to turns things around.

The board is looking to make major changes as it works to rebuild faith with the public and with the Ontario government, which has frozen funding for new school buildings. The contract between the TDSB and its skilled trades union expired at the end of August. Sources said talks have reached an impasse, and that the board has filed for conciliation.

Mr. Bacopoulos spoke with The Globe and Mail about what he discovered as he dug into his new job, and how he plans to get Canada’s largest school board back the right track.

Hitting the bar

Installing GPS devices in the board’s fleet of vehicles is the most controversial recommendation Mr. Bacopoulos has made yet. When he introduced the tracking devices to the city’s waste management fleet, workers responded by bashing and breaking the devices. (He later installed protective metal shields.)

Surveillance details have already discovered that some TDSB staff are leaving job sites, visiting bars, and taking roundabout routes that decrease productivity, Mr. Bacopoulos said. GPS devices will help management track employees’ movements.

“Early next year we’ll be able to install them. We’re going to be able to monitor the activities of our folks, make sure that they’re taking the proper routes, that they’re being productive.”

Wild spending

Facilities staff are given credit cards that are meant to be used for purchasing supplies such as screws, nails or wood. Mr. Bacopoulos and his management staff noticed that employees were making unexpectedly large purchases, often at smaller “mom and pop” stores that made cost-appropriateness hard to track. He implemented new rules limiting the vendors where workers could shop, and began monitoring their purchases.

“They were buying things like groceries,” said Mr. Bacopoulos. “But people recognize we started monitoring that and started to straighten their ways. They know we’re still at that.”

Leaving early

At the end of their shift, custodians set alarms on school buildings to close them for the night. One of the first things Mr. Bacopoulos says he requested when he started working for the TDSB were records on those alarms, to see when they were being turned on.

“I found some really weird things happening,” he said. “Like the alarms are being set sometimes as early as three or four hours before the end of the shift.”

Facilities management began monitoring those alarms, using them as a metric to ensure that custodians were working their full shifts. Monthly reports initially revealed schools were regularly being closed down early, so managers began taking discipline action against staff.

“We’ve got that under control and people are working their full shifts and setting the alarms when they’re supposed to be setting them.”

Filling the tank

To refuel their company vehicles, facilities staff were given credit cards and free rein to fill up wherever they like. Mr. Bacopoulos found that one of the biggest consumers of gasoline was a school custodian who only had a snow blower and lawnmower to fill.

“We did an investigation and determined that he was using it for his own personal use and we ended up terminating that caretaker,” Mr. Bacopoulos said.

Staff are now required to use the board’s own fuelling stations and mileage is monitored and measured against fuel consumption.




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JLM

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- G ... Of course you have nothing but respect for the BCPFFA seeing as how it got you one of the very best heavily publicly subsidized, permanently guaranteed benefits, fully cost of living indexed, early retirement pensions in the entire bloody country and enabled you to take your early retirement on your 50 acres in the Kooteneys. It might shock you to learn that most private sector workers have no pension plan at all and the minority who do have plans that are on average worth less than 30%



-

That is a bullsh*t argument, everyone no matter where he/she works can walk into his local investment office of choice (mine was Investors Group) and set up their own pension.
 

captain morgan

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That is a bullsh*t argument, everyone no matter where he/she works can walk into his local investment office of choice (mine was Investors Group) and set up their own pension.


The difference is; Investor' Group will not (can not) guarantee the same pay-out terms that are back stopped and fully guaranteed by the tax payer regardless of how the investment fund does.
 

TeddyBallgame

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That is a bullsh*t argument, everyone no matter where he/she works can walk into his local investment office of choice (mine was Investors Group) and set up their own pension.

- JLM ... True anybody can set up and pay 100% for their own plan but what you either conveniently or ignorantly fail to mention is that if you do as I and apparently you did and set up a retirement investment plan then it is done entirely through your own money rather than through an employer provided plan in which at least 50% of the retirement contribution is paid by your employer rather than by you.

- Public sector pension plans are even juicier than the standard private sector employer provided plan in which half of the fund is paid for by your employer. But clearly you are being a moron as usual and I won't waste my time trying to explain the significant differences between public and private sector pension plans to you which, on average, give the public sector retiree three times the payout for the same contribution amounts as the private sector retiree. Nor will I bother to educate you on the fact that over 50% of private sector workers are not eligible for a pension plan to which their employer contributes.

- But I will suggest that you forgo your usual bull**** practice of winging it when you attempt comically to dispute facts with me. Unlike you, I don't make things up, I look them up.

The difference is; Investor' Group will not (can not) guarantee the same pay-out terms that are back stopped and fully guaranteed by the tax payer regardless of how the investment fund does.

- CM ... Very true and there are other significant differences, some of which are covered in my response to JLM's usual ill informed blather.

- As I'm sure you know, the private sector company pension plans are quickly transitioning from defined benefit plans to defined contribution plans through which actual benefits will be contingent upon actual market performance. This is because the private sector employers understand that the defined benefits plans are too rich to be realistically sustainable in today's slow growth and long life environment. Eventually, even government employers will have to recognize this reality which is now bankrupting several US cities and threatens to bankrupt such major US states as California. My guess is that the Conservative federal government will, as usual, have to take the lead and shoulder most of the blame when this transition takes place for new employees but it will take place because the economy simply can't support the extravagant public sector pensions currently being provided when the next wave of retirees hits. You can also expect to see governments tackle some of the other public sector pension piggery such as full annual indexation to the COL and ridiculously early retirements without serious penalties.

- Believe me that the focus of the next public sector compensation war will not be on pay but on pensions. And public sector union folks should not expect a lot of sympathy from those in the private sector that will have to work at least another couple of years longer to receive their piddly little OAS and CPP payouts while the public sector folks fight to be able to work less than thirty years and then retire on lavish, indexed pensions that the private sector schmucks can only dream about for more years than they actually worked.
 

JLM

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TeddyBallgame;1689722 [B said:
But clearly you are being a moron as usual[/B] .


And you are a F**king A$$hole. Which is worse?

The difference is; Investor' Group will not (can not) guarantee the same pay-out terms that are back stopped and fully guaranteed by the tax payer regardless of how the investment fund does.

No they can't guarantee a higher return, but the private investor is able to choose where he/she will invest and can generally do better than the public plan because the people managing the public plan simply can not take the risk the private investor can, ie they invest heavier in fix income funds while the private investor especially if he/she is still young can afford the risk of investing in equity funds.
 

taxslave

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And you are a F**king A$$hole. Which is worse?



No they can't guarantee a higher return, but the private investor is able to choose where he/she will invest and can generally do better than the public plan because the people managing the public plan simply can not take the risk the private investor can, ie they invest heavier in fix income funds while the private investor especially if he/she is still young can afford the risk of investing in equity funds.

You would have to be extremely lucky and a very prudent investor to be able to make a better private pension than any government employee gets. No matter what you do independently it will never be a defined benefit plan. NOr will it be guaranteed.
Your defined benefit government pension OTH is backstopped by the taxpayer, meaning that if the pension fund does not have enough money in it the taxpayer is on the hook foe all deficiencies. That is over and above the 50% the taxpayer contributed to your plan in the first place.

JLM: Not sure on yours personally since you may have retired before the really big payouts started but any government employee that retired in the last 10 years has come out smelling like a loan shark.
 

JLM

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You would have to be extremely lucky and a very prudent investor to be able to make a better private pension than any government employee gets. No matter what you do independently it will never be a defined benefit plan. NOr will it be guaranteed.
Your defined benefit government pension OTH is backstopped by the taxpayer, meaning that if the pension fund does not have enough money in it the taxpayer is on the hook foe all deficiencies. That is over and above the 50% the taxpayer contributed to your plan in the first place.

JLM: Not sure on yours personally since you may have retired before the really big payouts started but any government employee that retired in the last 10 years has come out smelling like a loan shark.

I believe you have to work until age 55 to get the employer contribution, otherwise you only get back what you put in.
 

taxslave

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I believe you have to work until age 55 to get the employer contribution, otherwise you only get back what you put in.

NOt sure on all the rules since they don't apply to me but all of them will make far more in pension than I will and there is something really wrong when a person can retire at 55 courtesy of the taxpayer.
 

captain morgan

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No they can't guarantee a higher return, but the private investor is able to choose where he/she will invest and can generally do better than the public plan because the people managing the public plan simply can not take the risk the private investor can, ie they invest heavier in fix income funds while the private investor especially if he/she is still young can afford the risk of investing in equity funds.

Investor's Group can't guarantee anything. Regardless if you sign-up for a low, medium or high risk portfolio, the broker, is only a medium that places the money in certain areas.

Gvt backed pensions are back stopped by the tax payer, so even if the markets go entirely to hell, the pension will be paid at the prescribed formula... There is a reason that when you hear about unfunded pension liabilities in the news that they generally refer to the public sector and/or unions (which are strong in the public sector)... Although that same liability can occur in the private sector (and often does) - if the private company goes titters, well that tough luck for the recipients... If, on the other hand, a public sector pension shows the liability, the tax payer is on the hook to fund these highly lucrative, as-long-as-you-live, defined plans.
 

JLM

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NOt sure on all the rules since they don't apply to me but all of them will make far more in pension than I will and there is something really wrong when a person can retire at 55 courtesy of the taxpayer.

I suppose I'm really the wrong guy to comment here as I retired at 56 and did benefit from the Gov't. contribution, but I put in 35 years to do it. But I often did wish I could have done my own investing instead. With your own plan you can switch back and forth between equities and fixed income according to when equities are doing well or poorly.
 

JLM

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Investor's Group can't guarantee anything. Regardless if you sign-up for a low, medium or high risk portfolio, the broker, is only a medium that places the money in certain areas.

Gvt backed pensions are back stopped by the tax payer, so even if the markets go entirely to hell, the pension will be paid at the prescribed formula... There is a reason that when you hear about unfunded pension liabilities in the news that they generally refer to the public sector and/or unions (which are strong in the public sector)... Although that same liability can occur in the private sector (and often does) - if the private company goes titters, well that tough luck for the recipients... If, on the other hand, a public sector pension shows the liability, the tax payer is on the hook to fund these highly lucrative, as-long-as-you-live, defined plans.

Yep, there's risk whichever way you go, well, with the Gov't plan in effect it takes 35 years to double your money- 72 being the magic number that works out to 2% return and that's only on the first dollars. Historically equities generally double in 7-10 years.

... With a defined benefit that they will receive until death..

That's where the gamble comes in. I opted for 15 years, so at least if I did drop dead it was long enough to ensure my wife started receiving O.A.S. When I retired there was about 50 options I had to choose from.
 

TeddyBallgame

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NOt sure on all the rules since they don't apply to me but all of them will make far more in pension than I will and there is something really wrong when a person can retire at 55 courtesy of the taxpayer.

- TS ... Yes there is but in fact JLM is mistaken as usual and most public sector employees can retire even earlier than age 55 although the federal government has introduced legislation that when passed will mean that in future MPs will not be able to collect their pensions before age 55 and federal public sector employees will pay a stiffer penalty for retiring before they reach 55.

- However, what is now and has long been in force in most public sector collective agreements is the 85 rule by which anyone with a combination of age and years of service adding up to 85 (even lower in some collective agreements) can retire without penalty on a fully indexed to the annual COL increase pension paying off at 2% per year served from the average of the employee's three best earning years up to a maximum of 70% of said average.

- Here's a real life example of an Ontario teacher I know who retired last year. He started in teaching at age 21 and taught for 32 years until age 53. He then retired at 53 years old with a pension of 64% of $90,000 or about $57,600 a year increasing automatically every year by the same % as the cost of living increases. In addition, he banked six months of sick days and received a lovely parting gift of six months pay or $45,000 for said sick days which sure beats the hell out of a gold watch. Now, he supply teaches for several weeks a year (thereby depriving a new teaching graduate of gainful employment) and makes more with his combined pension and per diem for supply teaching than he did when he taught full time. I like the guy and at least he is honest about it all. He has told me that he can't believe what the province has let him and colleagues of a similar age get away with in terms of pension and benefits still in force. If he had stayed an extra three years, he would have collected his maximum 70% pension of $63,000 plus, plus, plus.

- Overall, the average Canadian public employee now retires at age 58 while the average private sector employee retires at 62. The value of their respective pensions - with each puttin in the same individual contribution over their working life - is three dollars to one in favour of the public employee. And with the OAS age being gradually raised to 67, you can expect that private sector workers will begin to work longer than they have, making the public-private retirement divide even bigger than it is now.