Polar Bears, Polar Bears Everywhere

[Kakato]

The "argumentum ad populum" fallacy, kakato. You have to back it up.

37 years in the field,I dont have to back up anything.Anyone who has been outside of the internet and in the north knows what i'm saying is from experience.

Cool photos. So when the white bears get through springtime in the arctic and the ice just keeps moving north, out of swimming range for example, and they can't get there mainstay of their diet, what would their next reaction be? I expect they head south.

They can swim for days and days and do all the time.They follow the food source,melting ice provides open water for things to wash ashore.
Bears are opportunists,they will allways take the easiest route to a meal and that's why they love garbage dumps.
Their diet is basically anything and they never run out of food and migrating south for lack of ice is just ludicrous for an animal that has adapted to hunting off the edge of an ice pack.
They go where the food is and they have an excellent sense of smell.

The ice does not move north either,it starts melting in the south like usuall and the melt works it's way north as the hours of sunshine increase everyday.

The summers in the western Arctic are very nice,last year better then southern Alberta as far as temps were concerned and this year too.They just only last 3 months.

Gee thanks Kakato.

But I've been there, I already know.

I'm not surprised you know what that is, since the bulk of your posts, hinge on it.

Oh that's rich!!!

That wasn't meant for you.
I ignore most of your posts unless someone quotes them like that post,sorry if you thought I was actually paying attention to you because i'm not.
I was trying to answer the question about the red tundra and why the guys who have been up there all their life swear by it.

 

[CDNBear]

37 years in the field,I dont have to back up anything. Anyone who has been outside of the internet and in the north knows what i'm saying is from experience.

That would explain why you were so wrong when you claimed the permafrost impeded the geothermal potential of the Arctic.

That wasn't meant for you.

That would explain why you quoted me.

 

[Kakato]

That would explain why you were so wrong when you claimed the permafrost impeded the geothermal potential of the Arctic.

That would explain why you quoted me.

Let me know when you want to discuss things like an adult and maybe I'll take you off the ignore list.

 

[CDNBear]

Let me know when you want to discuss things like an adult and maybe I'll take you off the ignore list.

1, Nothing in my post is immature in any way.
2, Just because I point out that your fallacious claim of authority, lacks any substance, and is easily shown to be flawed. Isn't immature.
3, Pointing that you quoted me, in the reply I quoted, isn't immature.

You may or may not like the last one...

4, Your post, and claim to have me on ignore, is immature. Especially in light of the childish neg reps earlier.

 

[Kakato]

1, Nothing in my post is immature in any way.
2, Just because I point out that your fallacious claim of authority, lacks any substance, and is easily shown to be flawed. Isn't immature.
3, Pointing that you quoted me, in the reply I quoted, isn't immature.

You may or may not like the last one...

4, Your post, and claim to have me on ignore, is immature. Especially in light of the childish neg reps earlier.

Oh well,it's obvious you follow me around so maybe tell someone who care's because I sure dont.
Ta Ta!

Rep points mean nothing to me here as you abuse them worse then anyone.

Dont waste your time responding,I promised the mod's I would ignore you so bye bye!

 

[CDNBear]

Thank you, for proving me right, yet again.

Have a nice night Kakato.

 

[Kakato]

Thank you, for proving me right, yet again.

Have a nice night Kakato.

I proved you follow me around as you replied twice and never added anything to the topic,thanks for proving me right!
Have a good night!

1, Nothing in my post is immature in any way.
2, Just because I point out that your fallacious claim of authority, lacks any substance, and is easily shown to be flawed. Isn't immature.
3, Pointing that you quoted me, in the reply I quoted, isn't immature.

You may or may not like the last one...

4, Your post, and claim to have me on ignore, is immature. Especially in light of the childish neg reps earlier.

Go find another topic to muddy up hmmmkay?

Last I looked the topic was about bears in the arctic.

Go attack someone else.

 

[Tonington]

37 years in the field,I dont have to back up anything.Anyone who has been outside of the internet and in the north knows what i'm saying is from experience.

The thing is, you can both be right. The problem is that you're both talking about very similar things which are related but not the same. I don't doubt for a minute that what you say about the leaves changing colour is true. It's a perfectly sensible, and easy to show phenomenon.

The slight difference is, does the Arctic turn red on average now later, earlier, is it roughly split? That's not something that you can show with years of experience. That's something that you need data to show. The leaves turning red, that's an indicator of organisms responding to changes in the environment. Ice responds to temperature changes too, and the data are showing that as the years have past, the melt season is getting longer.

That shouldn't be controversial, it's what we should expect with more heat. More heat, more melting.

This trio of images shows changes between 1979 and 2007 in the average date of melt onset in the spring (left), the first autumn freeze (center), and the total average increase in the length of the Arctic sea ice melt season. The color scales show the trends in days per decade. Red indicates trends consistent with warming: earlier melt onset, later freezes, and longer total melt season. White indicates little or no change. The maps are based on satellite observations of microwave energy radiated from the ice. (Even a small amount of melt water on snow or ice dramatically changes the way the surface looks in the microwave part of the electromagnetic spectrum.)​

Melt Season in the Arctic Getting Longer : Image of the Day

The evidence is everywhere. As time has gone on, the area melting on Greenland has increased too:

Now look at the area which has been melting this year:

NASA - Satellites See Unprecedented Greenland Ice Sheet Surface Melt

Nearly the entire area of the Greenland ice sheet is melting now.

These are changes that are both obvious, and expected.

So while I don't doubt what you say about the colour changes in the tundra foliage are true, they are out of context with the long term response in the Arctic to increasing heat.

 

[Kakato]

The thing is, you can both be right. The problem is that you're both talking about very similar things which are related but not the same. I don't doubt for a minute that what you say about the leaves changing colour is true. It's a perfectly sensible, and easy to show phenomenon.

The slight difference is, does the Arctic turn red on average now later, earlier, is it roughly split? That's not something that you can show with years of experience. That's something that you need data to show. The leaves turning red, that's an indicator of organisms responding to changes in the environment. Ice responds to temperature changes too, and the data are showing that as the years have past, the melt season is getting longer.

That shouldn't be controversial, it's what we should expect with more heat. More heat, more melting.

This trio of images shows changes between 1979 and 2007 in the average date of melt onset in the spring (left), the first autumn freeze (center), and the total average increase in the length of the Arctic sea ice melt season. The color scales show the trends in days per decade. Red indicates trends consistent with warming: earlier melt onset, later freezes, and longer total melt season. White indicates little or no change. The maps are based on satellite observations of microwave energy radiated from the ice. (Even a small amount of melt water on snow or ice dramatically changes the way the surface looks in the microwave part of the electromagnetic spectrum.)​

Melt Season in the Arctic Getting Longer : Image of the Day

The evidence is everywhere. As time has gone on, the area melting on Greenland has increased too:

Now look at the area which has been melting this year:

NASA - Satellites See Unprecedented Greenland Ice Sheet Surface Melt

Nearly the entire area of the Greenland ice sheet is melting now.

These are changes that are both obvious, and expected.

So while I don't doubt what you say about the colour changes in the tundra foliage are true, they are out of context with the long term response in the Arctic to increasing heat.

Good,let me know when life as we know it is going to end ok?
You guys haven't been right yet.
Lets focus on our arctic,not Greenland.



Sorry,I'm a field guy,I trust what I see with my eyes before a graph and the folks that gave me that info have been exploring the arctic circle for 40 years so I take what they say as gospel.

If you can explore the arctic for close to 40 years and still be alive then the stories that guy can tell are far better then any graphs to me.

 

[CDNBear]

The thing is, you can both be right. The problem is that you're both talking about very similar things which are related but not the same. I don't doubt for a minute that what you say about the leaves changing colour is true. It's a perfectly sensible, and easy to show phenomenon.

The slight difference is, does the Arctic turn red on average now later, earlier, is it roughly split? That's not something that you can show with years of experience. That's something that you need data to show. The leaves turning red, that's an indicator of organisms responding to changes in the environment. Ice responds to temperature changes too, and the data are showing that as the years have past, the melt season is getting longer.

That shouldn't be controversial, it's what we should expect with more heat. More heat, more melting.

This trio of images shows changes between 1979 and 2007 in the average date of melt onset in the spring (left), the first autumn freeze (center), and the total average increase in the length of the Arctic sea ice melt season. The color scales show the trends in days per decade. Red indicates trends consistent with warming: earlier melt onset, later freezes, and longer total melt season. White indicates little or no change. The maps are based on satellite observations of microwave energy radiated from the ice. (Even a small amount of melt water on snow or ice dramatically changes the way the surface looks in the microwave part of the electromagnetic spectrum.)​

Melt Season in the Arctic Getting Longer : Image of the Day

The evidence is everywhere. As time has gone on, the area melting on Greenland has increased too:

Now look at the area which has been melting this year:

NASA - Satellites See Unprecedented Greenland Ice Sheet Surface Melt

Nearly the entire area of the Greenland ice sheet is melting now.

These are changes that are both obvious, and expected.

So while I don't doubt what you say about the colour changes in the tundra foliage are true, they are out of context with the long term response in the Arctic to increasing heat.

What the hell do you know? You've never been there!

 

[Tonington]

You guys haven't been right yet.

Who hasn't? These changes I just showed you were predicted to happen, and they are happening.

Lets focus on our arctic,not Greenland.

Why?

 

[Kakato]

Who hasn't? These changes I just showed you were predicted to happen, and they are happening.



Why?

The ice melts in OUR arctic the same time every year,and freezes the same time,so who do I believe?
Your graph or what I have seen every year up there?

If the tundra is red you have another month before freeze up.
Common knowledge up there.


You really do need some field experience Tonnington.
Your a smart guy,break away from the graphs and go exploring.
There's big money in the environment now.
Especially if it involves fish.

 

[CDNBear]

Who hasn't? These changes I just showed you were predicted to happen, and they are happening.



Why?

Told ya.

 

[Tonington]

The ice melts in OUR arctic the same time every year,and freezes the same time,so who do I believe?

I can't tell you who to believe. I'll trust satellite sounders over your say so. Personally I prefer objective data analysis to subjective conjecture.

There's big money in the environment now.
Especially if it involves fish.

Yeah, and part of that big money is in vaccines that decrease antibiotic use and resistance. I'm fine where I am.

 

[CDNBear]

I can't tell you who to believe. I'll trust satellite sounders over your say so. Personally I prefer objective data analysis to subjective conjecture.

Most intelligent people do.

 

[Kakato]

So if I take their advice and findings over your's then no hard feelings.

I can't tell you who to believe. I'll trust satellite sounders over your say so. Personally I prefer objective data analysis to subjective conjecture.



Yeah, and part of that big money is in vaccines that decrease antibiotic use and resistance. I'm fine where I am.

And I'll trust what I see at Churchill and on the flight up along the west coast of the Hudsons bay to Rankin Inlet and then Baker lake.
Nothings changed,the bears follow the melting ice NORTH along the bay.
At least for the last 40 years they have according to the peeps living there.
So forgive me if I take their info over yours as these folks live there and can tell me how to survive there where you could not.

 

[CDNBear]

At least for the last 40 years they have according to the peeps living there.

From the 'peeps' that actually live there...

Representatives from Nunavut Tunngavik, Kitikmeot Inuit Association, Kivalliq Inuit
Association, Qikiqtani Inuit Association, Inuit Tapirasat of Canada, Nunavut Planning
Commission, Nunavut Impact Review Board, Department of Indian and Northern Development
and Government of Nunavut also participated in the conference.

· Winters are getting shorter, summers are getting longer.

· We are losing the ice in our glaciers and fiords. Permafrost is melting. We see
vegetation growing where ice used to be.

· The sun’s rays are increasing, Inuit need stronger suntan lotion.

· We now see birds and wildlife that we have never seen here before. Ravens are
everywhere, Snow Geese are too numerous.

· Heavier winds can be dangerous, be cautious. Because of Global Warming we could
become subject to catastrophes like hurricanes.

· Caribou meat tastes different now and there are concerns about contaminants and
diseases. We send samples out to labs but never get results back. Caribou hides are
thinner.

· More Inuit are dying from cancers, including skin cancers. We have to find out if this is
from mining or contaminants or from climate change.

· Fall ice forms later and may not be safe to travel on until Christmas

· If trends continue, Hudson Bay (and other areas) may never freeze over. The impact on
wildlife will be tremendous.

· Inuit have to be prepared for the impacts of Global Warming.

· Water levels are getting lower

· Isostatic rebounding

· The floe edge is receding faster

· More ships are traveling through the Northwest Passage, due to the lower ice coverage in
recent years.

From the 'peeps' that live there...

http://www.tunngavik.com/files/2011/03/elders.pdf

Geez Ton, it sounds like the 'peeps' in Nunavut believe you. They're seeing the changes, first hand.

That's because they've been there.

 

[petros]

I wonder if plants who set their growing season strictly by hours of available sunlight per day really give a **** about temperature?

 

[CDNBear]

I wonder if plants who set their growing season strictly by hours of available sunlight per day really give a **** about temperature?

Arctic Willow.

Florida Orange trees.

Enjoy.

 

[petros]

there are florida orange trees in the arctic?