Gun Control is Completely Useless.

[Colpy]

Why do you just not think period, Colpy? What has the survey results on the Registry to do with who was elected. First, it was not an issue that decided the election. Second, it encouraged the CPC because of the dispersal pattern of the opposition.

As for the other, don't bother if you cannot make intelligent comment about it. I think gopher will. And I will answer as much as I can. Making all individual Rights redundant is silly. First because it never was an individual Right as long as society has been organised. It was a "natural" Right of sorts for primitive man. Second, things become redundant when they are no longer useful and the particular "Right" has no place in a modern society where the protections it is supposed to give (but does not) are provided by a more efficient and less irrational force

The election is the only poll that counts. The elimination of the LGR was a primary election plank of the Conservatives for years. 40% voted Conservative. Obviously, that in itself puts the lie to your claim of "massive" support for the registry.....then add to that 40% the untold numbers of NDP voters that depended on their elected NDP MPs to oppose the registry (two of whom actually did vote with the gov't), and you begin to understand that your claim is not only false, but ridiculous.

I think you had best stick to the issue of climate change, where stupidity is the conventional wisdom. You will be a guru, I predict.

If you think the right to bear arms has never been an individual right, then your reading skills are as poor as your math.

The phrase "the right of the people" is not arguable by anyone with an IQ higher than their hatsize. It appears in the US Bill of Rights.

The right is listed after the preamble states its purpose of "vindicating and asserting their ancient rights and liberties" in the English Bill of Rights.

You are making a damned fool of yourself.

 

[CDNBear]

You are making a damned fool of yourself.

He's been doing it for months. He doesn't seem to care.

 

[glass58]

He's been doing it for months. He doesn't seem to care.

So this forum is like all forums in that righties insult others. So childish.

 

[Colpy]

So this forum is like all forums in that righties insult others. So childish.

Naw, we insult idiots, when it becomes clear that logical debate is beyond them.. Their position on the political spectrum is irrelevant.......

 

[CDNBear]

So this forum is like all forums in that righties insult others.

What Colpy said.

And to prove his point, I sit further left than Cabbagehead and Colpy.

So childish.

Oh yay, another one that loves to post irony, lol.

 

[glass58]

No you insult people who don't agree with you.

DId you know that approx. 13% of the Canadian population is in Jail at this time. ?
And did you know that of that population 87% of those prisoners are male.

Comment?

 

[CDNBear]

No you insult people who don't agree with you.

Since you were so very wrong about my political leanings, not only is it highly likely that you are wrong about that as well, you actually are, lol.

 

[Colpy]

No you insult people who don't agree with you.

DId you know that approx. 13% of the Canadian population is in Jail at this time. ?
And did you know that of that population 87% of those prisoners are male.

Comment?

What the Hell does that have to do with ANYTHING?????

 

[wulfie68]

No you insult people who don't agree with you.

DId you know that approx. 13% of the Canadian population is in Jail at this time. ?
And did you know that of that population 87% of those prisoners are male.

Comment?

BS: we don't have the facilities to have 13% of the population incarcerated. As for men being 5-6 times more likely to commit serious offenses, I'm not really surprised: male stupidity manifests itself differently than female stupidity, largely because of our body chemistry.

 

[CDNBear]

Lol!!!

 

[Colpy]

BS: we don't have the facilities to have 13% of the population incarcerated. As for men being 5-6 times more likely to commit serious offenses, I'm not really surprised: male stupidity manifests itself differently than female stupidity, largely because of our body chemistry.

Points to you Wolfie!!!

I was so caught up in the irrelevance of the question that I didn't even notice the ridiculous contention that formed the basis of the question.

In 2005-06 Canada had 110 prisoners for every 100,000 people. That is a POINT 11% incarceration rate, or one tenth of one percent (rounded down)........or one out of one thousand.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2007/11/21/stats-prisons.html

Methinks our Liberal friend, Glass 58, is not too good at math.

We should give her the benefit of the doubt, and say she misunderstood her stats......and 13 out of ten thousand are now incarcerated, NOT 13%.

Carry on with your point, Ms. Glass, if you have one.......

 

[MapleDog]

Points to you Wolfie!!!

I was so caught up in the irrelevance of the question that I didn't even notice the ridiculous contention that formed the basis of the question.

In 2005-06 Canada had 110 prisoners for every 100,000 people. That is a POINT 11% incarceration rate, or one tenth of one percent (rounded down)........or one out of one thousand.

Methinks our Liberal friend, Glass 58, is not too good at math.

Would be fun to know how many of them are in jail for ridiculous reason,like not paying the parking tickets.

 

[CDNBear]

Points to you Wolfie!!!

I was so caught up in the irrelevance of the question that I didn't even notice the ridiculous contention that formed the basis of the question.

In 2005-06 Canada had 110 prisoners for every 100,000 people. That is a POINT 11% incarceration rate, or one tenth of one percent (rounded down)........or one out of one thousand.

Canada's prison population grew in 2006: StatsCan - Canada - CBC News

Methinks our Liberal friend, Glass 58, is not too good at math.

We should give her the benefit of the doubt, and say she misunderstood her stats......and 13 out of ten thousand are now incarcerated, NOT 13%.

Carry on with your point, Ms. Glass, if you have one.......

The silly question should have been ignored for the very fact that it was flawed from the get go.

Jail is provincial, sentences of up to 2 years less a day.

Prison is federal, sentences 2 years or greater.

The two terms are not synonymous.

 

[glass58]

The stats are from stats canada.

The stats are from about 5 years ago but it seems unlikely that there is a sudden drop in jail inmate amounts. Probably higher if the conservatives have their way. I googled prisoners in canada.

The web site is
http://www.vcn.bc.ca/august10/politics_stats.html/

Hope I have all the dots in the right places.

I think the rate of prisoners who are male, is definitely relevent. Men love guns. Some women have guns and maybe there are a few women who love guns but men LOVE guns and guns kill ( no matter what the nra says.)

And I majored in math and taught math for many years.

 

[taxslave]

Polls??

"Meanwhile, an Angus Reid poll released Monday found 46% of Canadians want to scrap the registry, and only 40% want to save it, with support for it highest in Quebec and lowest in the Prairies."

Scrap long-gun registry: Poll | Canada | News | Toronto Sun

Spare me.

If 62% of Canadians wished it saved, it would still be in existence, because the CPC would not have been elected.

Simple as that.

Oh, and even 62% is hardly indicative that "Canadians massively want (it)"

The simple fact of the matter is that the majority of Canadians couldn't care less about the long gun registry, one way or the other, and of those that do care about it, the vast majority are gun owners opposed to the registry.

Go back to climate change, because you don't have a clue about Blackstone, the Constitution of the United States, inalienable rights, the English language, Jefferson or Madison..........

Oh, and tell the Syrian people that rebellion with small arms is futile.

If time has made the Second Amendment redundant, then it has made all individual rights redundant..................think about that.

Judging by his rather childish parroting of dubious blogs by people with a mission to destroy the economy he doesn't know much about climate change either.

Rights have "time limits" or can be "old fashioned'? Well I'll be damned.

Probably, but not because of this.

No you insult people who don't agree with you.

DId you know that approx. 13% of the Canadian population is in Jail at this time. ?
And did you know that of that population 87% of those prisoners are male.

Comment?

SO you are saying that most of the male criminals are stupid?

 

[CDNBear]

The stats are from stats canada.

The stats are from about 5 years ago but it seems unlikely that there is a sudden drop in jail inmate amounts. Probably higher if the conservatives have their way. I googled prisoners in canada.

The web site is
http://www.vcn.bc.ca/august10/politics_stats.html/

Hope I have all the dots in the right places.

I think the rate of prisoners who are male, is definitely relevent. Men love guns. Some women have guns and maybe there are a few women who love guns but men LOVE guns and guns kill ( no matter what the nra says.)

And I majored in math and taught math for many years.

Your link failed. Not that it matters...

DId you know that approx. 13% of the Canadian population is in Jail at this time. ?

No I didn't. Probably because your question was flawed, to start. But also because the percentage of the Canadian population in the cuctody of Corrections Canada, is .13%. Not 13%.

There are approx 39,099 (a) Canadians in the custody of Corrections Canada. The population of Canada is 34,482,779 (b).

The formula for finding the percentage is a/b x 100.

Comment?

Yes, there's no need to thank me for clearing up your erroneous stats and correcting your difficulties with math.

But you're welcome anyways.

 

[taxslave]

Your link failed. Not that it matters...

No I didn't. Probably because your question was flawed, to start. But also because the percentage of the Canadian population in the cuctody of Corrections Canada, is .13%. Not 13%.

There are approx 39,099 (a) Canadians in the custody of Corrections Canada. The population of Canada is 34,482,779 (b).

The formula for finding the percentage is a/b x 100.

Yes, there's no need to thank me for clearing up your erroneous stats and correcting your difficulties with math.

But you're welcome anyways.

Being a teacher probably explains the difficulty with basic arithmetic. Those that can, do. Those that can't teach. Those that can't even teach have to administrate.

 

[gopher]

Reply to CabbagesandKings,


~ Blackstone ~

The right to keep and bear arms existed under the Anglo-Saxon common law which predates Parliament by centuries. Those rights were restricted as tyrants claimed authority over Britons and sought to keep people from rebelling in order to assert their rights. Royal edicts and Parliamentarian Acts starting in the 17th century or about the time of the British civil war were created for that purpose. Blackstone acknowledged that Britons always had that right - indeed, it was essential that they be armed to protect against barbarian invasion, domestic unrest, for protection against brigands, and for hunting. But he also agreed that guns/weapons restrictions were legally created in order to promote tyranny and to keep people from asserting their rights.

~Judge Storey ~

While it is true that many no longer accept the rationale behind his analysis as relevant, nobody disputes that his interpretation of the Founders intent was accurate.


~ ''The idea that the "Right" was a check on arbitrary government does not fly now and did not then'' ~

That's your opinion but the facts as explicated previously show otherwise. Again, see earlier posts on standing armies along with Jefferson's and Madison's answers to this issue.


~ what would any carrying of Arms have done to avoid Kent State ~


You will likely recall our discussion of the New Black Panther party in Texas. In the old days when government took away people's weapons, J Edgar Hoover and the FBI assassinated members of the old BPP. Whether we agree or disagree with that group's politics is or should be inconsequential. The fact was that the old BPP always had a right to a fair trial if the government could prove they committed any crime. Assassinating their membership was a crime committed by the government as was Kent State. Notice today how the government does not dare attack the new BPP. Why? Because they are armed to the teeth.


Lastly, back to Jefferson and Madison ~ we must always remember that these Founders were students of philosophers such as John Locke, Cicero, Blackstone, Erasmus, and Roger Williams. They believed that their ideas were based on solid principles. In other words, these ideas were not thought to be relevant just for that space and time. They were core ideals whose consequences would remain relevant for centuries to come. They viewed government as SERVANT, not as dictator. And their writings (many of which have been quoted extensively on this forum) clearly show that they viewed people as having the eternal right to use weapons to remove intrusive government if democratic methods did not meet their needs. How significant it must have been to them that, next to the right of free speech, the right to keep and bear weapons was considered the second most significant and inalienable right they guaranteed to us.

 

[Cabbagesandking]

Rights have "time limits" or can be "old fashioned'? Well I'll be damned.

Your words and utterly meaningless.

 

[gopher]

I found this long but well informed legal/historical writing on 2d Amendment rights:

How the British Gun Control Program Precipitated the American Revolution by David Kopel :: SSRN

How the British Gun Control Program Precipitated the American Revolution



particularly relevant is the following quip:


"The ideology underlying all forms of American resistance to
British usurpations and infringements was explicitly premised
on the right of self-defense of all inalienable rights; from the selfdefense
foundation was constructed a political theory in which
the people were the masters and government the servant, so that
the people have the right to remove a disobedient servant. The
philosophy was not novel, but was directly derived from political
and legal philosophers such as John Locke, Hugo Grotius, and
Edward Coke."



This summarizes all that I have written above: that indeed, these are lasting principles, not just flavor-of-the-month ideas whose relevance and applicability are here today, gone tomorrow.