Quebec is a nation? What does that mean?

[s_lone]

Can someone please explain to me what is meant by a "frog?" If I said a frog got in the house, I chased it around with a towel, and caught it, put it outside - what would be meant by that? Nothing more than what I said. I don't get it.

Percy

I'm not sure about the origin of 'frog' for Quebecers but this is what I was told.

It would come from the fact that francophones who don't understand English always say "quoi?!" when they are spoke to in English. "quoi?" means "what?" in the sense that you don't understand what you just heard.

The way "quoi?" is pronounced sounds a bit like the sound we would do to imitate a frog...

Anyone ever hear that too?

 

[Said1]

Seems like there are several stories.

Dumas, in the Counte of Monte Cristo makes a reference to frogs being fashionable prints (or as he puts it, unfashionable) on the clothing of french aristocrates too, so who knows.

 

[Jay]

There are several stories, but I choose to believe one of them.


Before the Christian Frankish Kings, frogs were symbols of French royalty....so were bees.

 

[Doryman]

Re: RE: Quebec is a nation? What does that mean?

*croak* So you don't think Acadians and 'First Nations' are nations?
*wrebbit*




....


Nope, just a large ethnic/social group within a nation. I'm a pretty patriotic Newfoundlander, but even I admit that Newfoundland ceased being anything like a Nation when we joined Canada. We talk different, have a different culture, live a different life and haven't even really been with you for that long, but we're still Canadian. Canada hasn't been a joy-ride for us either ( probably not for any province), but the simple difference is that we don't whine about it.


And I believe "racist" and "inappropriate" terms should be used by everyone,everywhere, whenever possible, regardless of race, social status, or anything else. Hopefully, once everyone gets used to hearing these terms, and learns to laugh at these antiquated and obscure words, the human race will stop being so bloody sensitive about them. Maybe finally people will stop being offended on behalf of someone else because they're not sure if a certain term is PC this week, and fringe lobby groups will run out of ways to stir up the race relations pot.

And c'mon, Frog is kind of a funny term. Same with Limey, or Kraut! It's even funnier when you get mixed-race people like some friends of mine, who are Chinese-German ( Sweet-and-SourKraut), Chinese-Irish ( Rice-Paddies) or African-Irish ( LepreCoon). The sooner we laugh at this crap, the sooner we take away it's power to stir up hate and violence.

And now's the part where someone gets offended and tells me I'm a Nazi. Giv 'er, eh! :roll:

 

[manda]

Re: RE: Quebec is a nation? What does that mean?

I haven't read this whole thread for lack of time, but IMHO, Quebec is a nation means nothing. It just plain isn't, and these self important pompous blowhards try to make more of their PROVINCE, than it is. We are all part of the Nation of Canada, and are a Canadian people, no matter what ethniticity we are or language we speak. What Bull

*croak* So you don't think Acadians and 'First Nations' are nations?
*wrebbit*

I couldn't care less if an Albertan fellow said to me he believes Alberta forms a nation. Good for him if he truly believes it.

Good for you if you feel Canadian. I do too. But I feel a whole lot more like a Quebecer. *wrebbit*

you are a Québécer, as I am an Islander, I am very proud of my provincial heritage. But it is my province, not a nation. I Live amonst Les Acadiens and Mi'q Ma'q people who are indeed a "peopple", who live in the nation of Canada. You're just one of those who don't follow the subtle nuances of the words, aren't you

 

[s_lone]

Re: RE: Quebec is a nation? What does that mean?

I haven't read this whole thread for lack of time, but IMHO, Quebec is a nation means nothing. It just plain isn't, and these self important pompous blowhards try to make more of their PROVINCE, than it is. We are all part of the Nation of Canada, and are a Canadian people, no matter what ethniticity we are or language we speak. What Bull

*croak* So you don't think Acadians and 'First Nations' are nations?
*wrebbit*

I couldn't care less if an Albertan fellow said to me he believes Alberta forms a nation. Good for him if he truly believes it.

Good for you if you feel Canadian. I do too. But I feel a whole lot more like a Quebecer. *wrebbit*

you are a Québécer, as I am an Islander, I am very proud of my provincial heritage. But it is my province, not a nation. I Live amonst Les Acadiens and Mi'q Ma'q people who are indeed a "peopple", who live in the nation of Canada. You're just one of those who don't follow the subtle nuances of the words, aren't you

I totally follow what you are saying and respect your view. I am also quite sensible to the nuances of words. It just happens that for most Quebec francophones, the word nation seems as appropriate (or more ) for Quebec than Canada.

Words do have to be treated with nuances. Some believe Canada has many nations under one (like me and other ROCers) and others like you believe the word 'nation' should only be applied to a country. I've got no problem with your vision of what a 'nation' is.

In the end this debate isn't very important as long as we respect each other and our differences. Having Quebec sign onto the Constitution seems a lot more important to me, whether or not Quebec is officially called a 'nation' or not. I dont' care much what symbolic position the Canadian government adopts. I'd rather see the federal government simply respect our desire to be totally independant in all our provincial jurisdictions. It's a question of being coherent and accepting that we are a confederation.

 

[s_lone]

Re: RE: Quebec is a nation? What does that mean?

And c'mon, Frog is kind of a funny term. Same with Limey, or Kraut! It's even funnier when you get mixed-race people like some friends of mine, who are Chinese-German ( Sweet-and-SourKraut), Chinese-Irish ( Rice-Paddies) or African-Irish ( LepreCoon). The sooner we laugh at this crap, the sooner we take away it's power to stir up hate and violence.

And now's the part where someone gets offended and tells me I'm a Nazi. Giv 'er, eh! :roll:

I've got no problem with being called a frog as long as you're willing to listen to me croak my opinions. I'm a very peaceful frog.

 

[cyberclark]

Well, I guess I'm just plain old fashioned. I cringe when I hear these types of words used to identify one group or another.

I don't see Frog any funnier than Raghead or Chink or Kraut.

It's just plain bad in my view and fosters a "funny" door to open for other types of slurs.

Nope! Not funny in my view.

 

[Doryman]

Re: RE: Quebec is a nation? What does that mean?

I've got no problem with being called a frog as long as you're willing to listen to me croak my opinions. I'm a very peaceful frog.

Good, then in that case I'm open to as many newfie jokes as you can dish out!! :wink:

And I always thought that the term "Frog" had something to do with the French eating frog legs. Maybe, maybe not...

"I don't see Frog any funnier than Raghead or Chink or Kraut"

That's probably because you're part of a generation that has been taught to be as PC as possible in the fear of offending anyone. When you get right down to it, they're just silly words made up by small-minded people to insult each other. If an angry child calls a person a "stinky-head", they snicker to themselves and walk on. But if an angry adult with the mind of a child calls someone a Raghead, Slant or Mick they gasp in horror and rush off to the PC police. Honestly, it's a lot more effective if you just laugh at these people.

If you go to the media or any official body about racists, it gives them ammo about how they're strong-willed martyrs fighting a corrupt world government. Then they gain more conspiracy-nut followers by showing how they're hunted by the World Homo-Jew conspiracy or whatever! If you laugh at them they...do what exactly? Call you a Raghead again? Yell out, "Hey, Qu- Quit laughing you dumb stinky-head!!!"

These people fear mockery more than anything else. Remember how fast Hitler shut down the Burlesque Houses that mocked him?

 

[nimafarid2007]

One of the things they want is to control their own foreign policy. We all know that Canada took the allies' side in both world wars and we also know that people of quebec didn't like it and wanted to remain neutral throughout the war. Also, not having a country doesn't mean that the nation doesn't exist. Just look at Kurds in Middle East. They are now minorities in four different countries instead of a majority in an independent Kurdistan. Also officially the head of state of Quebec is the british queen!!! It is like we let the King of Neatherlands to be the head of state of New Zealand...

 

[gerryh]

Also officially the head of state of Quebec is the british queen!!! It is like we let the King of Neatherlands to be the head of state of New Zealand...

Actually, it's the CANADIAN Queen who also happens to be the Queen of Great Britain.


It's amazing that some people can breath and walk at the same time.

 

[Machjo]

Mr. Duceppe stated that Quebec is a nation and such that it should be sovereign. What exactly does he mean? Who is part of this Quebec nation? I understand that Quebec is distinct in its language, culture and heritage, but how does this lead to separation?

Is there anyone that can explain this rhetoric?

There is a political and an ethnic sense to the word "nation". I'm sure when Harper declared Quebec a nation, he meant it in the ethnic, not political sense, but should have expected that sovereigntists would take it in the political sense.

While it's true that Quebec, is a nation, so are the Cree, the Innu, the Algonquin, etc. So if this means Quebec can separate, by all means, but remember, treat like alike if you are principled about it.

 

[Cabbagesandking]

More of the same! Quebec is not a nation: never has been; never will be.

Quebec has never been an independent entity. Before becoming a province it was a colony and it is the result of an amalgamation of provinces now.

Quebec has never had a government in control of a territory. As a colony it had limited powers: as a Province it has shared jurisdictions.

The original territory of Quebec that was Francophone or French controlled is less than one third of its present territory: territory that was always British in control as far as there was control by a government.

Quebec has never been a monolithic French speaking or culturally defined entity. IT has been more English in territory and with an English population that was as high as one third of the population until it begin to migrate to other provinces.

Quebec has none of the necessary attributes of nationhood and its French speaking population does not have those attributes, either, Its claims are bogus and its laws are illegal and immoral.

Quebec has a cultural and linguistic duality - disregarding First Nations.

 

[nimafarid2007]

Actually, it's the CANADIAN Queen who also happens to be the Queen of Great Britain.


It's amazing that some people can breath and walk at the same time.

You know this is just a title. In my example what if the King of Neatherlands declares himself as King of New Zealand. Still doesn't change the case. The Queen was born and grew up in England.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

You know this is just a title.

No, it is NOT just a title, Elizabeth II is the Queen of Canada in fact and in law, executive power is vested in the institution of the crown and delegated to designated officers of the government by both law and custom. She's the head of state of Quebec only in the same sense that Obama is president of Texas, i.e. not. You don't understand constitutional monarchy or the nature of the Canadian federal state, so your criticisms miss the mark. Certainly they can be legitimately criticized, but first you have to know what they are.

..what if the King of Neatherlands declares himself as King of New Zealand.

I presume you mean The Netherlands; the Dutch monarch is currently female, a Queen, not a King, and if she declared herself Queen of New Zealand she'd probably be judged to have gone crazy. Elizabeth II is Queen of New Zealand.

 

[Spade]

People get wound up over verbiage, The US is a union of 50 "states" isn't it?

Scotland and Wales call themselves countries.
There are First Nations throughout Canada.
And the Quebec people live in a geographic region with French as the principal language, and with a distinct culture and history, and with many of their own institutions. They are a nation but not a country.

 

[nimafarid2007]

No, it is NOT just a title, Elizabeth II is the Queen of Canada in fact and in law, executive power is vested in the institution of the crown and delegated to designated officers of the government by both law and custom. She's the head of state of Quebec only in the same sense that Obama is president of Texas, i.e. not. You don't understand constitutional monarchy or the nature of the Canadian federal state, so your criticisms miss the mark. Certainly they can be legitimately criticized, but first you have to know what they are.

I presume you mean The Netherlands; the Dutch monarch is currently female, a Queen, not a King, and if she declared herself Queen of New Zealand she'd probably be judged to have gone crazy. Elizabeth II is Queen of New Zealand.

I dudn't know about the gender of the dutch monarch but I knew about Queen Elizabeth II being the head of state of New Zealand. But this is just an example.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Yes, it's an example of what's called the straw man fallacy.

 

[CDNBear]

The original territory of Quebec that was Francophone or French controlled is less than one third of its present territory: territory that was always British in control as far as there was control by a government.

 

[nimafarid2007]

No, it is NOT just a title, Elizabeth II is the Queen of Canada in fact and in law, executive power is vested in the institution of the crown and delegated to designated officers of the government by both law and custom. She's the head of state of Quebec only in the same sense that Obama is president of Texas, i.e. not. You don't understand constitutional monarchy or the nature of the Canadian federal state, so your criticisms miss the mark. Certainly they can be legitimately criticized, but first you have to know what they are.

I know what they exactly are. They control the armed forces. Every bill should be signed by her representative after being passed in the parliment to become a law. she has the right to dissolve the parliment and if the prime minister wants to do it, he needs the permission of her representative. And she basically has the most power in Canada and in Quebec.