Toronto Eaton Centre shooting kills 1, injures 7

L Gilbert

L Gilbert

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Yeah, firearms are so dangerous.

Bar Sinister said:
My challenge to pro gun types still stands. Give me an example of an incident where firearms prevented a crime and I will match it with one that shows guns promoting one. The point is that gun ownership has no deterrent effect to crime anywhere that I know of.
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That is because most crimes of this type are committed by people who feel they are outside the law. It would not matter a whit to them what laws are in place concerning ANY type of weapon.
Besides, how many times do you hear of people using firearms properly in the media? None. It only pops up in the media when someone uses one criminally.
 
eh1eh

eh1eh

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Liberalman said:
If they charge the gunmaker for the death of the person at the Eatons Centre then gun crimes would go down
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I am no gun advocate but what else? Class action suite against spoons for making people fat?

The last such shooting in Toronto was 2005 and before that 1994. Whoa, what a dangerous place.
 
Bar Sinister

Bar Sinister

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Colpy said:
Wrong.

First of all, guns are inanimate objects, they neither promote nor prevent crime.....they are used by individuals to commit or to prevent crimes.

And they are used for defense much more often than you think.

Here is the definitive work on the subject:

Guns and Self-Defense by Gary Kleck, Ph.D.
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I see a few problems with that link. First of all much the data is 20 years old or older. Second, it does not clearly define what defensive gun use is. For example if one thug threatens another thug with a gun is that defensive gun use? Is sitting with a loaded gun in your living room on Halloween defensive gun use. Is going to bed with a gun under your pillow defensive gun use? Third, was any effort made to verify the claims; and is such verification even possible?

Finally, the numbers in the article are all for the USA. Since the use of guns for self-defence in Canada is quite restricted I suspect that gun ownership as a means of protection here is probably much lower; especially as you can be sent to jail for using a gun in Canada for your own protection.
 
Colpy

Colpy

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Bar Sinister said:
I see a few problems with that link. First of all much the data is 20 years old or older. Second, it does not clearly define what defensive gun use is. For example if one thug threatens another thug with a gun is that defensive gun use? Is sitting with a loaded gun in your living room on Halloween defensive gun use. Is going to bed with a gun under your pillow defensive gun use? Third, was any effort made to verify the claims; and is such verification even possible?

Finally, the numbers in the article are all for the USA. Since the use of guns for self-defence in Canada is quite restricted I suspect that gun ownership as a means of protection here is probably much lower; especially as you can be sent to jail for using a gun in Canada for your own protection.
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http://www.garymauser.net/pdf/CSD-JCJ-JFP-8-3-99.pdf
 
C

Cliffy

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Bar Sinister said:
I see a few problems with that link. First of all much the data is 20 years old or older. Second, it does not clearly define what defensive gun use is. For example if one thug threatens another thug with a gun is that defensive gun use? Is sitting with a loaded gun in your living room on Halloween defensive gun use. Is going to bed with a gun under your pillow defensive gun use? Third, was any effort made to verify the claims; and is such verification even possible?

Finally, the numbers in the article are all for the USA. Since the use of guns for self-defence in Canada is quite restricted I suspect that gun ownership as a means of protection here is probably much lower; especially as you can be sent to jail for using a gun in Canada for your own protection.
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A cop told a friend, who lives in a rather remote area, that if an intruder enters his residence for criminal purposes and if said perp manages to leave his premises before my friend can retrieve his gun and is outside by the time he gets a bead on him, he should shoot and drag the body back into the house. It is also better to make sure the perp is dead as he can sue if he survives.
 
Colpy

Colpy

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Cliffy said:
A cop told a friend, who lives in a rather remote area, that if an intruder enters his residence for criminal purposes and if said perp manages to leave his premises before my friend can retrieve his gun and is outside by the time he gets a bead on him, he should shoot and drag the body back into the house. It is also better to make sure the perp is dead as he can sue if he survives.
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I have a LONG list of reasons why your friend would wind up in prison for many, many years.........
 
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Cliffy

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Colpy said:
I have a LONG list of reasons why your friend would wind up in prison for many, many years.........
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No doubt. That was 20 years or so ago. Things have changed considerably since then. Cops can kick the shyte out of you but you can't protect yourself.
 
Colpy

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What EXACTLY do they put in Toronto's water????

TORONTO - Two weeks before he allegedly opened fire in the Eaton Centre killing one and wounding six others, Christopher Husbands was a part-time City of Toronto employee working with kids in an after-school program.
Husbands — now facing one charge of first-degree murder and six charges of attempted murder in the wake of Saturday’s shooting — had the city job working with youth despite being under house arrest for a 2010 sexual assault charge still before the courts and a 2008 drug conviction, the Toronto Sun has learned.
Husbands, 23, worked for the city from November 2011 to May 18, 2012, according to city officials.
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Accused Eaton Centre shooter worked for city | Toronto & GTA | News | Toronto Sun
 
karrie

karrie

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Bar Sinister said:
I'm not sure what you wanted me to read in that source. It contains nothing that weakens my position and has a number of points that support it. It is also, like your first source out of date.
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So the contention is that stricter gun laws would have prevented this man from illegally possessing a gun....how exactly? He was already not allowed a gun.
 
Colpy

Colpy

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Bar Sinister said:
I'm not sure what you wanted me to read in that source. It contains nothing that weakens my position and has a number of points that support it. It is also, like your first source out of date.
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Well, in the USA (the Kleck piece) you could hardly expect the number of defensive uses of firearms to have decreased, considering the liberalization of carry laws that began in the late 80s, and continues today....................

You get what there is................if there ain't nothing else..........
 
Bar Sinister

Bar Sinister

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Colpy said:
Well, in the USA (the Kleck piece) you could hardly expect the number of defensive uses of firearms to have decreased, considering the liberalization of carry laws that began in the late 80s, and continues today....................

You get what there is................if there ain't nothing else..........
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That might well be. But my point has always been that the number of illegal uses of firearms greatly exceeds their use in self defence. I see nothing in either article to disprove that.
 
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