Oil Sand Myths

Cabbagesandking

Council Member
Apr 24, 2012
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Rebel is pretty much correct about the Pine Beetle and other that are now becoming dangerous to forests. How they crossed the mountains is not very important: the fact that they crossed is.

There are now more than 40 million acres in Canada that are severely damaged and around ten in the USA. Studies project a steady march North and East as the climate warms. What is alarming is that beetles are now attacking jackpine as well as the lodgepole. That means the potential of a march right across Northern Canada into Ontario and Quebec.

Drought enhances their ability to thrive as it reduces the defenses of trees. we are getting more and longer droughts. A temperature of -30F is needed in winter to kill the larvae and a sever cold in fall and spring can do it. (Idon't recall why the difference). we sees that kind of cold less often. A recent development in Alaska is that where for some beetles there was a two year life cycle it is now one year.

I don't remember more than that but the information, and explanations,is available in many places
 

skookumchuck

Council Member
Jan 19, 2012
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The first documented Mountain Pine Beetle outbreak in Alberta was in the 40's. Cripes people, do some research to find what those of us who were there know!
 

Cabbagesandking

Council Member
Apr 24, 2012
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The first documented Mountain Pine Beetle outbreak in Alberta was in the 40's. Cripes people, do some research to find what those of us who were there know!
You miss the point that, in the past, infestations died out. Now they do not.

Top 10 Facts About the Alberta Oil Sands

Some facts about the oil sands production; water usage, gas usage; tailing ponds and more. With links to more.
 

Kakato

Time Out
Jun 10, 2009
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You miss the point that, in the past, infestations died out. Now they do not.

Top 10 Facts About the Alberta Oil Sands

Some facts about the oil sands production; water usage, gas usage; tailing ponds and more. With links to more.
I worked in both the beetle kill and tailings reduction program at suncor so you cant teach me anything I dont allready know and your sorely mis informed in both fields.

Downright ignorant if I do say so meself!

Rebel is pretty much correct about the Pine Beetle and other that are now becoming dangerous to forests. How they crossed the mountains is not very important: the fact that they crossed is.

There are now more than 40 million acres in Canada that are severely damaged and around ten in the USA. Studies project a steady march North and East as the climate warms. What is alarming is that beetles are now attacking jackpine as well as the lodgepole. That means the potential of a march right across Northern Canada into Ontario and Quebec.

Drought enhances their ability to thrive as it reduces the defenses of trees. we are getting more and longer droughts. A temperature of -30F is needed in winter to kill the larvae and a sever cold in fall and spring can do it. (Idon't recall why the difference). we sees that kind of cold less often. A recent development in Alaska is that where for some beetles there was a two year life cycle it is now one year.

I don't remember more than that but the information, and explanations,is available in many places
Sigh,more ignorance,they attack mature pine,they will attack young pine in a heavy infestation but young trees have a high sap flow and can resisst them,pine is pine,they will even hit spruce trees,ive seen it....on the beetle kill program in 1978,they were so bad they were chewing on my arms because of the sap from the chainsaw.I had an entomologist with me most of the time and learned how they worked,why they were chewing on me.
 

Cabbagesandking

Council Member
Apr 24, 2012
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I worked in both the beetle kill and tailings reduction program at suncor so you cant teach me anything I dont allready know and your sorely mis informed in both fields.

Downright ignorant if I do say so meself!


Sigh,more ignorance,they attack mature pine,they will attack young pine in a heavy infestation but young trees have a high sap flow and can resisst them,pine is pine,they will even hit spruce trees,ive seen it....on the beetle kill program in 1978,they were so bad they were chewing on my arms because of the sap from the chainsaw.I had an entomologist with me most of the time and learned how they worked,why they were chewing on me.
This not 1978 and the beetles have, as I wrote, spread over more than 50 million acres already and are going much further as others in the North are also becoming more prevlent as climate warms. You really should read up about it. What I wrote comes from recent reports.
 

Kakato

Time Out
Jun 10, 2009
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Easy fix to stop the beetles would have been to let the timber companies log the old growth pine in the flathead valley in B.C. and montana and to let them burn to the ground when they did start burning.

Ya,I live in beetle country so once again,nothing u say enlightens me in any way except for misinformation and ignorance.
 

Kakato

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Jun 10, 2009
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What has "my" predicting winters in Alberta to do with it? We are talking of present and known facts.

And "hired guns?" Hired by whom?
Facts? Please,no facts here,just partisan bull.Global warming and the oilsands do seem to be the flavour of the day for uneducated nutbars though so carry on.

Pick something other then energy or beetles on your next hate the cons/Alberta campaign bud.U failed miserably here tonight trying to push your agenda.
 

Cabbagesandking

Council Member
Apr 24, 2012
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And what Party is this partisan bull reflecting? Global warming is the flavour of the century not just the day. It will have a very bad taste for the next generation. One that is heading into a nightmare of "your" creation.
 

Kakato

Time Out
Jun 10, 2009
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And what Party is this partisan bull reflecting? Global warming is the flavour of the century not just the day. It will have a very bad taste for the next generation. One that is heading into a nightmare of "your" creation.
You cant do anything about global warming so who cares? why beat a dead horse?
You probably just burnt about a pound of coal posting that last post,courtesy of sheerness or genessee coal fired power plants.
 

Redmonton_Rebel

Electoral Member
May 13, 2012
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All the bitumen in Alberta is but a drop when compared to coal. Coal is the real elephant in the climate changing room. The Canadian climatologist Andrew Weaver at UVic recently estimated the impact of Canada's oil sands on climate change (if it were totally and suddenly combusted) and it amounts to a few tenths of a degree. Whatever his definition for commercially viable was, those oil sands would only add 0.03°C. That compares to a whopping 15 degrees from coal.

Don't get me wrong, there's huge environmental costs involved with oil sands extraction, but I think the water issues are far more worrisome than the few hundredths of a degree impact the oil sands will have on the global climate. I don't for one second think it's a coincidence that there are so many changes being announced by this government with respect to water quality and healthy aquatic ecosystems.

What you are doing is akin to propagating an oil sand myth! You can't blame unavoidable climate change on the oil sands! :lol:

You come so close to appearing like you give a damn.

The real issue isn't how much of the overall radiative forcing the carbon dioxide released from oil sands development will be responsible for, it's how far the continued emissions of so much CO2 will push the global system into a higher state of balance and how significant climate change will be.

This isn't a joking matter, as things stand now a significant fraction of the species now present on Earth are threatened with extinction as their prefered habitat moves polewards faster than they can migrate or simply disappears. This includes, coral reefs which are associated with about 25% of life in the ocean, tropical and temperate alpine biotas, polar ecosystems and more.

The human cost is significant and will continue to rise over the coming decade and will include:

- Loss of coastal regions inhabited by hundreds of millions of people, many of them very poor.
- Increase in the range of disease causing insects and other vectors.
- Loss of water resources.
- Increases in extreme weather events that are already at serious levels.
- Decrease in food production, rice one of the staple crops for several billion people is already decreasing in productivity.

By ignoring the clear warnings being presented by the peer-reviewed science the government of Steven Harper is indicating that Canada will not participate in a global effort to minimize these critical changes that will have a negative impact on billions of lives. By going ahead with large scale development of the oil sands there's no way that Canada will meet any meaningful targets at reducing carbon dioxide emissions, in fact as oil sands development accelerates Canada will be responsible for billions of tons more of CO2 in the atmosphere . By claiming that new emission from the oil sands development will only result in a small part of the total radiative forcing created over almost two centuries we give other large emitters an out. They can also claim they only present a small part of the problem and nothing effective will be done. Already dramatic changes in the Earth's energy balance and climate will increase.

Simply put, Steven Harper is asking Canadians who already carry a significant responsibility per capita for the human generated greenhouse gases already in the carbon cycle to ignore their responsibility to both themselves and the wider global community. It's the way of greed and selfishness over generosity and compassion.

Under Steven Harper Canada has already done what it could to sabotage any effective agreements limiting human generated CO2 emissions at international conferences on the issue and has subverted our democratic system here to prevent any close examination of the issue or any threat to continued Conservative control of our federal government. So at the same time oil sands development will play a crucial role in driving the already historic levels of atmospheric carbon dioxide higher, in the end we will almost certainly be left with a political system that is democratic in name only.

Here's a story on how one of the early oil sands development plans would have used nuclear weapons.

'Why not nuke Alberta?' | Macleans.ca - Canada - Features
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
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Kakato

Time Out
Jun 10, 2009
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Here we go again,time to pull out the graphs!

Soon Saskatchewan will outpass Alberta for conventional oil production and all the nutbars can go after that province for a change.
 

Tonington

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 27, 2006
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You come so close to appearing like you give a damn.

I do give a damn, I just give a damn without making statements that can be shown to be demonstrably false. The science is pretty clear, there's no reason for you to embellish or exaggerate. In fact from a messaging perspective it simply drives away reasonable people.
 

Kakato

Time Out
Jun 10, 2009
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I do give a damn, I just give a damn without making statements that can be shown to be demonstrably false. The science is pretty clear, there's no reason for you to embellish or exaggerate. In fact from a messaging perspective it simply drives away reasonable people.
I'll give you a greeny there Tonny because you give a fu*k.Bad environmentalism is bad,it takes away from good enviromentalism.

I'm sure we can agree on that.
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
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i do give a damn, i just give a damn without making statements that can be shown to be demonstrably false. The science is pretty clear, there's no reason for you to embellish or exaggerate. In fact from a messaging perspective it simply drives away reasonable people.
+500
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
44,168
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I do give a damn, I just give a damn without making statements that can be shown to be demonstrably false. The science is pretty clear, there's no reason for you to embellish or exaggerate. In fact from a messaging perspective it simply drives away reasonable people.

Yeah... I gotta give you a greenie too for taking on the exteme extemist.
 

Cabbagesandking

Council Member
Apr 24, 2012
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I do give a damn, I just give a damn without making statements that can be shown to be demonstrably false. The science is pretty clear, there's no reason for you to embellish or exaggerate. In fact from a messaging perspective it simply drives away reasonable people.
Which statements of Rebel do you find demonstrably false?