A bigot will find justification for their beliefs/actions, it isn't limited to the bible... Hell, one could use Darwin's theories to attack gays, but I strongly suspect that Savage won't be ripping Mensa any time soon
Anti-Bullying Speaker Curses Christian Teens
- Thread starter Locutus
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A bigot will find justification for their beliefs/actions, it isn't limited to the bible... Hell, one could use Darwin's theories to attack gays, but I strongly suspect that Savage won't be ripping Mensa any time soon
I read some strange article a while back whose basic conclusion was that we need to invent group of people to ostracize; that somehow we all feel the need to regulate other people's behaviour to some degree. When we can't ostracize blacks and gays, we start ostracizing the racists and gay bashers. Then we start witch hunting...
Humans are much more like chimpanzees than bonobos.
I'm not convinced Savage is a bigot.
Wounded yes, a bigot, not so sure.
That's an evolutionists position, their are no moral grounds involved. Some Christians see homosexuality as immoral. The evolutionist see it as the use of organs with a specific purpose, being used in an unnatural manner. To which, I agree.
And trust me, I take no end of flack for it.
Yeah I think I missed that day too!
You believe that someones beliefs can be ridiculed? Where is the intelligence in that? How about just disagreeing with their beliefs and not ridiculing them?
I don't know many people who understand natural selection that would question whether it's natural or not. Female cows will mount each other when they come into estrous; it let's the bull know that the females are ready for breeding. The end result is higher breeding success. So even though the behaviour may seem unnatural, or using parts for which they aren't physiologically involved in the breeding process, the end result is more successful breeding, which ultimately is a benefit. So the behaviour survives. Fits perfectly with the mechanism of natural selection inside the theory of evolution.
And that's just one example among many.
And as for humans, there are many behaviours we have that do not fit within natural selection at all. Some even come at a cost for our species well being. We as a species are a bit of a confounder.
Ironically, I wasn't referring to Savage as the bigot. My statement was really to suggest that a person that wants to believe in something, will find the logic and justification somehow, somewhere.
Fair enough, I will suggest that relative to this issue (gay bashing), the 'moral element' is only one form of logic. In a way, individuals that employ a moral objection to something leave the door open to rebuttal based on the relativistic nature of morals. That said, (and allow me this extreme example), if Mensa were to come out and render a negative opinion on homosexuality based on Darwinism, I can't even begin to imagine the sh*t storm that would follow.
So, this takes me back to Savage... I have no problem with him or the lifestyle that he chooses to live; that's his business. That said, I do have a problem in this case with the notion that Savage delivered a speech on bullying and needed to rely on an unprovoked attack (bully) in order to deliver his message.
In this case and in my opinion, he is the bully
Agreed...... IMNSHO, Savage in this case, is NOT a good representative of the GBLT community and is doing more harm than good.
Lots of things do. At the end of the day, if the species no longer uses the organ for the purpose it was intended, the species fails to thrive.
As I mentioned in another thread, adaptedness is a key component of evolution, reproductive success is a measure of adaptedness.
So I can see how your theory fits though.
Fair enough.
Should we look at all the times you've ridiculed people for the things they've said here on this forum?
Have you not ridiculed, say Jbee for saying outrageous and bigoted things about dead American soldiers? Where is the intelligence in that? How about just disagreeing with their beliefs and not ridiculing them?
Do you know what a concern troll is?
No doubt... He's sending the message that intolerance is the solution... Chances are that there will be more people than he expects that are getting that message, loud and clear
A while back, someone dismissed Ton as being too young and without life experience. I have never, as far as I can remember, thought that of Ton. I, in fact, have thought the exact opposite. He is wise beyond his years. Then this, I guess everyone needs to show their age and lack of experience at some point in time.
There is always intelligence in challenging ideas. That is the whole premise of the age of enlightenment: that ideas should be challenged. Some ideas deserve to be laughed at for their silliness, some ideas deserve contempt for their savagery.
It is not enough to disagree and stay silent, which was what the church wanted Galileo to do. Instead, Galileo pointed out that geocentrism is a really silly idea. Nowadays epicycles are the epitomy of a silly belief that is patched up every time a flaw is found.
To the point, if you believe that killing people because they had gay sex is not just stupid but barbaric, and you know that people believe that it is ok, you probably want to point out that it is a stupid idea.
Ideas should always be challenged, and all beliefs are ideas.
Challenge yes... but ridicule?
Bear in mind I wasn't questioning your intelligence... just the intelligence of saying that it is OK to ridicule someones beliefs.
Bear in mind I wasn't questioning your intelligence... just the intelligence of saying that it is OK to ridicule someones beliefs.
Silly ideas should be laughed at, savage beliefs deserve contempt. If you put those two things together, you are ridiculing the idea. Respect must be earned, not demanded.
To which the following is an excellent answer...
I couldn't agree more!!!
And let me get this straight so help me... you believe the Bible and Christianity is a silly idea?
I think the bible is a book and Christianity is a religion. Neither is an idea.
Generalizing either would be a silly idea, deserving of ridicule. Heck the closest true statement one can make about all Christians is "They believe that faith in Christ is necessary for salvation," and even that probably isn't true of all sects. That is why racism is stupid. The only true statement that can be made about all black people is, "They have dark skin."
I think the bible contains a lot of silly ideas. Among them the ones about slavery, bats being birds, Paul thinking that women should wear veils. I think most Christians recognize these as silly ideas as well.