B.C. School teachers - What would be fair?

[#juan]

What would be fair?

How about a back to work order.

 

[Tonington]

How many private sector employees would expect a raise knowing their employer is $60 billion in debt? :lol:

The corporation I work for has $20.3 billion worth of debt, and I expect a raise. My raise this year is a multiplier of the business performance, and my own personal performance. So basically you can add pharmaceutical employees to the list.

 

[JLM]

What would be fair?

How about a back to work order.

Yep, whatever support the teachers had a week ago is quickly disappearing since the strike. I think Christy and Abbott have a better handle on what they are doing than the teachers do. I do not know a way of explaining to them that you can not get blood out of a turnip! :smile:

The corporation I work for has $20.3 billion worth of debt, and I expect a raise. My raise this year is a multiplier of the business performance, and my own personal performance. So basically you can add pharmaceutical employees to the list.

So you are more interested in your own short term well being than the employers long term solvency! :smile:

 

[Tonington]

So you are more interested in your own short term well being than the employers long term solvency! :smile:

No, the debt my employer has is from acquisitions. You're jumping to conclusions just because the corporation I work for has debt... Most large employers if you look at the balance sheets will have debt JLM. Large capital projects are financed by borrowing money. :roll:

 

[TenPenny]

So you are more interested in your own short term well being than the employers long term solvency! :smile:

I would assume from your post that you have asked for a reduction in you pension payments?

 

[JLM]

No, the debt my employer has is from acquisitions. You're jumping to conclusions just because the corporation I work for has debt... Most large employers if you look at the balance sheets will have debt JLM. Large capital projects are financed by borrowing money. :roll:

I understand that....................Just checking if you are on the ball. :smile:

I would assume from your post that you have asked for a reduction in you pension payments?

I'm donating $1500 of it back next month! :smile:

 

[#juan]

A new B.C. teacher with the ink still damp on the degree and no experience pulls down about $47,000.00. The average salary for teachers in B.C. is close to $60,000.00. The maximum salary is around $75,000.00. The teachers are asking for fifteen percent which for the average teacher is about a $9000.00 per year increase. I think that would be a hefty raise in good times. With the government up to their neck in debt, demanding that kind of increase is completely selfish.

 

[talloola]

I hear you Talloola, but it's not a matter of recognizing their value, some of them are valuable, some of them are not. And it's got really very little to do with "government", "government" doesn't pay their salaries- WE do. I guess a proper analogy would be someone dying of thirst in the Sahara Desert 1000 miles from an oasis. People can argue all day that they deserve a drink.

we pay for all kinds of services, but the teachers have to answer to the government, their bosses, as
we don't have a say, and if we did, perhaps we could be more reasonable, which would make them feel
they are at least being listened to, it seems there are far too many people instantly against them,
and begrudge them a good living, but they also want the best there is, teaching the students, can't have
it all.

Hire the best, pay them well, and put more energy into giving canadians a higher quality cirriculum, so
the teachers have better material to teach.

Instead the government wants to peel them back as much as they can, stop them from progressing, put them
in their place, then tell them to be good teachers, while treating them like second class citizens.

 

[Tonington]

A new B.C. teacher with the ink still damp on the degree and no experience pulls down about $47,000.00. The average salary for teachers in B.C. is close to $60,000.00. The maximum salary is around $75,000.00. The teachers are asking for fifteen percent which for the average teacher is about a $9000.00 per year increase.

Your math is off, it's 15% over three years, which is comprised of 3% cost of living increases each year for three years, with 3% market adjustments in year 2 and 3, it's not a $9000 per year increase.... If you use the average salary, next year the salary would be $63,000. The following year the salary would be $66,780. The final year of increase it would be $70,786.80.

And honestly I really doubt they think they will get 15%, that's just how negotiations work. Their salary will still be below other provinces, yet with the highest cost of living in the country.

 

[#juan]

Your math is off, it's 15% over three years, which is comprised of 3% cost of living increases each year for three years, with 3% market adjustments in year 2 and 3, it's not a $9000 per year increase.... If you use the average salary, next year the salary would be $63,000. The following year the salary would be $66,780. The final year of increase it would be $70,786.80.

And honestly I really doubt they think they will get 15%, that's just how negotiations work. Their salary will still be below other provinces, yet with the highest cost of living in the country.

They initially asked for 15%

By: The Canadian Press

Date: Thursday Mar. 1, 2012 8:31 AM PT

British Columbia Teachers' Federation says starting on Monday, March 5, public school teachers in the province will hold a three day strike.

BCTF president Susan Lambert made the announcement this morning, just hours after the union revealed its 41,000 members had voted 87 per cent in favour of a walkout.

Lambert says the strike will begin Monday and will continue through Wednesday, with students returning to classes on Thursday, March 8.

She concluded her news conference by saying sometimes it is necessary to stand up to a bully.

Teachers have been staging limited job action since September, refusing administrative tasks such as filling out report cards.

They are seeking improved benefits and a 15 per cent wage increase, while B.C.'s Liberal government is holding firm to a demand for a net zero wage hike for all provincial employees.

 

[JLM]

A new B.C. teacher with the ink still damp on the degree and no experience pulls down about $47,000.00. The average salary for teachers in B.C. is close to $60,000.00. The maximum salary is around $75,000.00. The teachers are asking for fifteen percent which for the average teacher is about a $9000.00 per year increase. I think that would be a hefty raise in good times. With the government up to their neck in debt, demanding that kind of increase is completely selfish.

Just to keep the record straight I checked the salary scales on line and for most S.D.s the bottom rate was about $38,000. Not that great of a wage but if they are any good at all they should be able to move up from there pretty fast!

Your math is off, it's 15% over three years, which is comprised of 3% cost of living increases each year for three years, with 3% market adjustments in year 2 and 3, it's not a $9000 per year increase.... If you use the average salary, next year the salary would be $63,000. The following year the salary would be $66,780. The final year of increase it would be $70,786.80.

And honestly I really doubt they think they will get 15%, that's just how negotiations work. Their salary will still be below other provinces, yet with the highest cost of living in the country.

NO- Negotiations DON'T work that way worth a sh*t. If you ask for something reasonable people will generally negotiate, if you come up with some hare brained request, you'll see their backside as they are going out the door.

we pay for all kinds of services, but the teachers have to answer to the government, their bosses, as
we don't have a say, and if we did, perhaps we could be more reasonable, which would make them feel
they are at least being listened to, it seems there are far too many people instantly against them,
and begrudge them a good living, but they also want the best there is, teaching the students, can't have
it all.

Hire the best, pay them well, and put more energy into giving canadians a higher quality cirriculum, so
the teachers have better material to teach.

Instead the government wants to peel them back as much as they can, stop them from progressing, put them
in their place, then tell them to be good teachers, while treating them like second class citizens.

I guess we have to agree to disagree on this Talloola and for the following reasons.
1. The "Gov't" has no money, the same as anyone else who is $60 billion in debt.
2. It's not fair to the taxpayer, many of who are already struggling.
3. When you cost out the value of their salary, perks and time off from work, they are already earning almost $100,000 a year.
4. Teachers have to learn "they can't suck and blow at the same time".

Now having said all that, after determining who the good ones are and turfing the bad ones, if I was in charge, I'd say you examine the entire education budget and if you can find ways to save up to a maximum of 2%, you will receive that raise.

BCTF president Susan Lambert made the announcement this morning, just hours after the union revealed its 41,000 members had voted 87 per cent in favour of a walkout.

Lambert says the strike will begin Monday and will continue through Wednesday, with students returning to classes on Thursday, March 8.

Don't you just get so sick and tired of seeing that Susan Lambert on the idiot box every 15 minutes during the evening news? :lol:

 

[TenPenny]

Am I reading that a retired civil servant, who collects a guaranteed pension, is claiming that the government is in debt and therefore no one should get a raise?

That's pretty goddam funny, that is.

Quite the attitude: 'I've got mine, you can go to hell'.

If you feel that the government is that badly in debt, stop cashing your fuking pension cheques.

 

[JLM]

Am I reading that a retired civil servant, who collects a guaranteed pension, is claiming that the government is in debt and therefore no one should get a raise?

That's pretty goddam funny, that is.

Quite the attitude: 'I've got mine, you can go to hell'.

If you feel that the government is that badly in debt, stop cashing your fuking pension cheques.

Sorry Bucko, but I started putting money aside when I was 20 years old (money deducted from my pay cheque) for the expressed purpose of retirement. So maybe before you go shooting your f*****g trap off in future you might want to check your facts............A$$hole!

 

[taxslave]

That doesn't sound at all like a lack of other job skills. Lack of job opportunities is not a lack of skills. Also the "lack of opportunities" in archaeology is merely not wanting to wander around the Earth from postdoc to postdoc on a meager salary before possibly landing an assistant professorship somewhere. It is the same for all academic careers in fact.

You'll have to explain what this test is to me that you are going on about. I'm not going to go out of my way to scrounge through every BC news organization's website on the off chance that they might actually give details at a level which explains why the teachers would be against the test.

The test I referred to is given to the students in 3 grades over the whole province. The idea is to see if all students are getting the minimum amount of education. The teachers don't like it because it can pinpoint poor teachers. I will see if I can find you a link later.

 

[Tonington]

Sorry Bucko, but I started putting money aside when I was 20 years old (money deducted from my pay cheque) for the expressed purpose of retirement. So maybe before you go shooting your f*****g trap off in future you might want to check your facts............A$$hole!

But you're still a retired civil servant who collects a government pension, correct? You collect OAS too if I remember correctly, which means you get cost of living increases too, from a government with almost 10 times the debt of BC.

The test I referred to is given to the students in 3 grades over the whole province. The idea is to see if all students are getting the minimum amount of education. The teachers don't like it because it can pinpoint poor teachers. I will see if I can find you a link later.

Just a note, will the test be a relative score that considers the ratio of teachers to students? If it doesn't then I can certainly understand the resistance from the teachers. It would be a biased assessor of the quality of the instruction.

 

[taxslave]

A new B.C. teacher with the ink still damp on the degree and no experience pulls down about $47,000.00. The average salary for teachers in B.C. is close to $60,000.00. The maximum salary is around $75,000.00. The teachers are asking for fifteen percent which for the average teacher is about a $9000.00 per year increase. I think that would be a hefty raise in good times. With the government up to their neck in debt, demanding that kind of increase is completely selfish.

Plus a solid gold benny package.

 

[JLM]

The test I referred to is given to the students in 3 grades over the whole province. The idea is to see if all students are getting the minimum amount of education. The teachers don't like it because it can pinpoint poor teachers. I will see if I can find you a link later.

Yep, I read about that same thing a few years back. I remember back in grade 10 being in a Math class comprised of fairly bright students, of 30 or so students about 6 of us passed the course and nobody scored above 60%. It was no wonder absolutely no patience and spent half the time telling tales about his days in the army. But he was back the next year "teaching" again! So sh*t hasn't changed much in 50 years! :lol:

 

[taxslave]

Student assessments:
www.bced.gov.ca/assment/fsa/

 

[Tonington]

Student assessments:
www.bc.gov.ca/assment/fsa/

Server not found.

Student assessments:
www.bced.gov.ca/assment/fsa/

This one doesn't work either.

 

[JLM]

But you're still a retired civil servant who collects a government pension, correct? You collect OAS too if I remember correctly, which means you get cost of living increases too, from a government with almost 10 times the debt of BC.

Yes, yes and yes, like every other Canadian past 65. Oooh you forgot C.P.P. (also funded by the employee) I started out being for the teachers getting a modest increase, BUT since then I've learned every other public employee in B.C. has already settled for zero. Everyone in the province was complaining about our Gov't.'s debt load, now a lot of the ones who were complaining about the debt load are now supporting the teachers. "Ya can't suck and blow at the same time" We are broke, we have to bring the debt down. :smile: