Corporate tax cuts are not working

Walter

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 28, 2007
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I also understand, and I may be wrong here, that most if not all of the money was a subsidy intended to provide incentive for buyers to purchase product made at this plant. So you're looking at a 5 million dollar investment to derive benefit in the local economy over a 4 year period. Seems excessive for four years to me.
$5,000,000.00 over 4 years for 400 jobs, although not ideal (I would have preferred no incentive), was a bone to the union and cost a little over $3000.00 per year per job.
 

Liberalman

Senate Member
Mar 18, 2007
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Corporate bailouts work only if the company creates new jobs but it usually gets distributed to the share holders and bonuses of the high level management.

Even though I do not like the NDP they have the better idea in distributing corporate welfare, which is pay the company after the job is created and filled with a new worker.
 

captain morgan

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 28, 2009
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Corporate bailouts work only if the company creates new jobs but it usually gets distributed to the share holders and bonuses of the high level management.

Even though I do not like the NDP they have the better idea in distributing corporate welfare, which is pay the company after the job is created and filled with a new worker.



Got any proof of this, or are you simply talking the party-line?
 

TenPenny

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 9, 2004
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Location, Location
My understanding from the local business gossip around town was that there was never any intention of making a long term go of this plant. Why exactly they purchased in the first place no one is sure. I don't know what they paid for it initially but it seems like it would be a lot of cash outlay for just capital assets

Progress Rail bought ALL of EMD, which included the London plant, because that is where most of the manufacturing took place, after they closed their plant in Lagrange Il. It's not like ghey had a choice to not buy the London plant. If no one in London understands this, I can see why they were surprised
 

TenPenny

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Jun 9, 2004
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Incidentally, the only reason that the plant existed in the first place is that they had to have a Canadian plant to sell to CNR and CP.

So if a company or government is in a deficit position then salaries and bennies should be cut?

there is a certain logic to that.
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
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Thanks. The so-called tax break was not given to EMD, it was given to companies who bought locomotives from EMD allowing them to deduct the depreciation cost of the locomotives at a quicker rate than other capital expenditures and thus, it was hoped, increase the purchase of machines built by the London plant. CNR bought over 40 locomotives after Harper introduced the incentive.

Caterpillar owns EMD.

Caterpillar was given tax breaks.

Should a company pay back tax breaks or have financial penalties if they decide to give away the business to the U.S.?

A lot of people who voted here seem to think so.

So if a company or government is in a deficit position then salaries and bennies should be cut?

You have to find out what the cause of the deficit was first and make your decision from there.

If you have productive workers, cutting their salaries might actually make them less productive.
 

captain morgan

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 28, 2009
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Caterpillar owns EMD.

Caterpillar was given tax breaks.


Should a company pay back tax breaks or have financial penalties if they decide to give away the business to the U.S.?

A lot of people who voted here seem to think so.

Apparently the tax breaks went to Caterpillar's customers, like CN. I'd appreciate if you (and Liberalman) can provide links that specify that EMD/Caterpillar received direct subsidies to the tune of $5MM; it'd really clear up this whole issue.

I like the added touch on adding a poll from a blog entry... Nice bit
 
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mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
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I think that any tax breaks given to Caterpillar have little to do with this business.

The feud between the union and the company may be a separate matter, but it undeniably comes at the cost of the taxpayer when the result is migrating business south of the border.
 

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
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When a corporation hoards profit, it not only hurts the economy, but also its own industry in the long run.

And to Walter's point about Government regulation, any regulation must be in the interest of consumers, naturally.

How often have you seen that happen? Even well meaning regulations often backfire when they meet reality. An easy example is rent controls. Now few would disagree with the intent but experience has shown reality is the opposite. When a landlord's income is restricted but his expenses are not the result is less rental housing being built and less maintenance on existing ones. Clearly neither is in the renters favor.
 

Liberalman

Senate Member
Mar 18, 2007
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We'd all really appreciate if you showed us this high level corruption.

I'm guessing that the money trail ends up with a bunch of brown paper bags being passed around?
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Captain Morgan it’s not corruption, government tells businesses that money is available for them courtesy of the taxpayer and then businesses apply for the money for whatever.

Our federal Conservative government is ruling the people of this great country with a firm iron fist but at the same time they are just bending over and are giving taxpayer money to the corporation and hoping they do the right thing and when they take the money and run the government does nothing.
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
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Apparently the tax breaks went to Caterpillar's customers, like CN. I'd appreciate if toy (and Liberalman) can provide links that specify that EMD/Caterpillar received direct subsidies to teh tune of $5MM; it'd really clear up this whole issue.

Electro-Motive received $5 million in federal tax breaks announced on the factory floor by Prime Minister Stephen Harper in 2008. That was before the plant was sold to its current owners in 2010, prompting questions from the union as to whether there were any strings attached to the money.

“I don’t know how we can hand these guys money like that with no job guarantees. It’s unconscionable,” said Lewenza, who rushed to London to meet with workers Friday after being informed of the closure by a senior Caterpillar official.

Canada News: Caterpillar closes Electro-Motive plant in London