U.S. to re-route Keystone XL due to environmental concerns

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
117,180
14,240
113
Low Earth Orbit
That's not the line in question.

All it's all about Green right? Out of the nearly 80 refineries in pristine NE, how many were built to handle heavy crude? How would they be economically impacted by cheaper oil flowing right on by to TX and LA?

Read up on the Wrangler and Seaway lines and the original Keystone line in operation.

Google

Glut of oil in OK raising prices at pump - KFOR
 
Last edited:

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
39,817
471
83
Keystone decision a victory for people power

A doctor tells your friend that unless he exercises and eats better, he’ll be dead of a heart attack within five years. You doubt his ability to exercise and diet, so you offer him a deep-fried Mars bar to try to make him feel better. Do you get insulted when he refuses to gobble down the gooey mess, or do you try to be a better friend?

This is what Canadians should be asking themselves in light on the U.S. State Department’s decision to delay the Keystone XL pipeline earlier this month—a momentous event in the world of energy and climate change politics.

First, the International Energy Agency (IEA) issued a dramatic warning that unless we stop building energy infrastructure like coal plants and oilsands pipelines in the next five years, we’ll be on the road to runaway climate change.

“As each year passes without clear signals to drive investment in clean energy, the ‘lock-in’ of high-carbon infrastructure is making it harder and more expensive to meet our energy security and climate goals,” said the IEA’s chief economist Fatih Birol. Delay is a false economy, he said, for every dollar of investment not spent on cleaner technology before 2020 requires an additional $4.30 to be spent after 2020 to compensate for the increased greenhouse gas emissions.

Yet the very next day, the Harper government and the oil industry railed against the Obama administration’s decision to send the Keystone XL pipeline, designed to carry diluted bitumen from the oilsands down to Texas, back to the drawing board. In retaliation, our industry and government leaders threatened to sell the oil to China instead, even though the proposed Enbridge Northern Gateway Pipelines, which would take the bitumen to the Pacific coast, is even less likely to be built than the Keystone XL.

The Obama administration has indicated that any future evaluation of the pipeline must consider the climate impacts of building a pipeline that would enable a 45 per cent increase high-carbon oilsands oil output.

This potential impact on the climate was, however, the prime motivating force behind the anti-Keystone movement on both sides of the border.

A number of strands converged in the people powered campaign to beat Big Oil. Solid research debunked oil industry claims. Freedom of Information requests exposed cosy back-room dealings between oil lobbyists and the U.S. State Department. Local people opposed the ecological and health consequences of pipeline spills. First nations’ concerns over the health impacts of expanding oilsands production were heard. How oilsands expansion violates treaty rights in the absence of free, prior and informed consent was highlighted. Climate scientists warned that building another pipeline to the oilsands would be like lighting a fuse to the largest carbon bomb on the planet.

These strands converged in peaceful, dignified mass protests across the continent that showed President Obama he had the public support to act on his campaign promise to “end the tyranny of oil” and take action on climate change. To demonstrate the depth of that support, over a thousand people were arrested at sit-ins on the White House lawn and on Parliament Hill over the last four months.

The oil industry may howl over how democratic concern trumped their money and backroom lobbying power this time, but we’re going to need a lot more victories like this one if we are going to avoid the highly polluting infrastructure “lock-in” that the IEA warns against.

If you care about the planet we are leaving for our kids, it’s time to say no to deep-fried Mars bars disguised as new pipelines or coal plants. The Earth needs better friends. Let’s draw the line at the oilsands and start flexing those democratic, “people power” muscles in support of the green energy revolution that will keep the planet healthy for generations to come.
 

mikemac

Nominee Member
Oct 13, 2008
82
2
8
Canada
Good articles mentalfloss. It just doesn't make any sense to pipe raw crude to the States so they can stock pile for the next 30 or 40 years when there was a near shortage of diesel for school buses right in the oil patch in the Athabasca-Redwater riding of Alberta. And just about run out of diesel fuel every year. Alberta Infrastructure Minister Jeff Johnson, the MLA for Athabasca-Redwater makes a lot of sense. This also explains why fuel costs are higher in Canada than they are in the States. Just nonsense. Refine it here in Canada for Canadians, then sell any surplus. With the existing upgraders. Don't put any more taxpayer's money into the oil patch. It would be better spent on developing alternative energy sources. The technology already exists to make an electric car that does not have to be plugged in every 80 miles. We just need corporations that are not connected to the oil industry to develop them. Man, does everything have to come from the grass routes. With all of this crap and pork barreling I couldn't care less anymore whether the oil patch was shut down or not. It would be interesting to know how much these Tory MPs are quietly pocketing from the oil lobby. I hope it takes 30 years for this new environmental study of the Keystone pipeline. In the end the entire cost of the study should be billed to the oil companies.
 

Kakato

Time Out
Jun 10, 2009
4,929
21
38
Alberta/N.W.T./Sask/B.C
Good articles mentalfloss. It just doesn't make any sense to pipe raw crude to the States so they can stock pile for the next 30 or 40 years when there was a near shortage of diesel for school buses right in the oil patch in the Athabasca-Redwater riding of Alberta. And just about run out of diesel fuel every year. Alberta Infrastructure Minister Jeff Johnson, the MLA for Athabasca-Redwater makes a lot of sense. This also explains why fuel costs are higher in Canada than they are in the States. Just nonsense. Refine it here in Canada for Canadians, then sell any surplus. With the existing upgraders. Don't put any more taxpayer's money into the oil patch. It would be better spent on developing alternative energy sources. The technology already exists to make an electric car that does not have to be plugged in every 80 miles. We just need corporations that are not connected to the oil industry to develop them. Man, does everything have to come from the grass routes. With all of this crap and pork barreling I couldn't care less anymore whether the oil patch was shut down or not. It would be interesting to know how much these Tory MPs are quietly pocketing from the oil lobby. I hope it takes 30 years for this new environmental study of the Keystone pipeline. In the end the entire cost of the study should be billed to the oil companies.

When you plug that electric car in guess where the powers coming from? In Alberta and BC it's coal,hydro,gas,wind and oil.
People love their power and we cant build enough power lines to supply demand right now.
So it still all boils down to an electric car is still relying on fossill fuel to power it.

I'm going back pipelining for the winter,sounds like things are heating up allready.
 

mikemac

Nominee Member
Oct 13, 2008
82
2
8
Canada
When you plug that electric car in guess where the powers coming from? In Alberta and BC it's coal,hydro,gas,wind and oil.
People love their power and we cant build enough power lines to supply demand right now.
So it still all boils down to an electric car is still relying on fossill fuel to power it.

I'm going back pipelining for the winter,sounds like things are heating up allready.

Who said anything about plugging an electric car in Kakato. No it wouldn't have to rely on fossil fuel to power it. It wouldn't even have a recurring expense that consumers would have to pay corporations for. And that is no doubt the reluctance the large corporations have to develop it. No recurring income for them so no desire to develop it.
 

Kakato

Time Out
Jun 10, 2009
4,929
21
38
Alberta/N.W.T./Sask/B.C
Who said anything about plugging an electric car in Kakato. No it wouldn't have to rely on fossil fuel to power it. It wouldn't even have a recurring expense that consumers would have to pay corporations for. And that is no doubt the reluctance the large corporations have to develop it. No recurring income for them so no desire to develop it.

You mentioned it,not me,I just pointed out that the electricity that car will use most likely comes from burning fossill fuels.
The technology already exists to make an electric car that does not have to be plugged in every 80 miles.

I work in the energy industry,thats coal,oil,gas,cbm,oilsands,pipelining and electric power transmission and untill demand slows down then you will see more pipeline and powerlines.I get this from the experts I work with,the top level field guys that have been doing it since 1950.

I find it ironic that a new powerline system that will feed the grid here in Alberta from nothing but windmills is getting the most hassle from the environmentalists and thats because it will go through two landowners property who are high up in the Alberta wilderness association and a few other semi militant enviro movements.

So untill consumption slows down,expect to see fuel shortages and power shortages like now or bite the bullet and start building the infrastructure to handle it because trust me.......theres going to be shortages.
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
39,817
471
83
I work in the energy industry,thats coal,oil,gas,cbm,oilsands,pipelining and electric power transmission and untill demand slows down then you will see more pipeline and powerlines.I get this from the experts I work with,the top level field guys that have been doing it since 1950.

I find it ironic that a new powerline system that will feed the grid here in Alberta from nothing but windmills is getting the most hassle from the environmentalists and thats because it will go through two landowners property who are high up in the Alberta wilderness association and a few other semi militant enviro movements.

So untill consumption slows down,expect to see fuel shortages and power shortages like now or bite the bullet and start building the infrastructure to handle it because trust me.......theres going to be shortages.

The demand for oil will remain until we have no oil left and under a free market, we will continue to provide it.

That doesn't mean this system is right or even good for us.

There's no denying that a Friedman-like economy is harmful for all of us.
 

Kakato

Time Out
Jun 10, 2009
4,929
21
38
Alberta/N.W.T./Sask/B.C
The demand for oil will remain until we have no oil left and under a free market, we will continue to provide it.

That doesn't mean this system is right or even good for us.

There's no denying that a Friedman-like economy is harmful for all of us.
Lot's of European companies are in fort mac developing their own oilsands projects for a reason .
Securing themselves a fuel supply.
 

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
8,583
60
48
United States
Here I am in agreement with the environmentalists, since this pipeline was to pass over through one of the largest fresh water aquifers in the U.S.. No point in taking chances.
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
39,817
471
83
Lot's of European companies are in fort mac developing their own oilsands projects for a reason .
Securing themselves a fuel supply.

So you agree with me that a completely free market is counterintuitive?
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
39,817
471
83
I think the world is in very sad shape when peeps go hungry and greed(corporate or personal)will allways keep a free market from being free.

Right, which is why a truly free market is actually a bad thing.
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
39,817
471
83
Alberta used to have the cheapest power in Canada,since deregulation we now have the most expensive.Too many hands in the pie now.

This reminds me of this fitness gym I drive by on my way home from work. A huge, wondrous beast of a building that has every kind of service imaginable. It includes a swimming pool and many other types of gym activities. If you'd like to take advantage of one service only, too bad so sad. They charge a $200 deposit and a $185/mo. user fee for only the wealthiest customers.

This kind of capitalistic behaviour needs to be reformed somewhat, because it only truly favours a corporation's profit margins and a very small segment of the population.
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
39,817
471
83
I love it when the media uses the term phalanx. It's becoming my new favourite word.


Senators push Obama for Keystone action

Republicans ratcheted up the pressure on U.S. president Barack Obama on Wednesday by introducing a bill that would force him to OK the Keystone XL oil pipeline project within 60 days.

Led by Mitch McConnell, a phalanx of Republican senators announced the North America Energy Security Act at a press conference on Wednesday.

If passed, the act would force the U.S president to approve the $7 billion pipeline that will bring Alberta crude oil to refineries on the U.S. gulf coast. Construction would then begin within 60 days. Canadian pipeline company TransCanada Corp. has been trying to bring the project to fruition for more than three years.

"With all the talk about jobs, we know there's one major shovel ready project ready to go and that's Keystone," McConnell said. "If the administration would get out of the way, this project would create jobs immediately — lots of jobs."

America currently imports about two million barrels a day from Canada. Keystone XL, if approved, would see that figure increase by another 700,000 barrels. That gain alone would be more than the U.S. currently imports from Venezuela, lawmakers noted on Wedneday.

The controversial pipeline has been plagued by regulatory delays. Earlier this month, the U.S. State Department delayed issuing their opinion on the project until environmental assessments can be made for a new route that would take the pipeline away from Nebraska's Sandhills region and the Ogalalla aquifer that supplies water to eight states.

That decision likely means final approval of the White House can't be made until 12-18 months from now, after the next Congressional and presidential elections in 2012. Environmentalists have rallied around stopping the pipeline and they appeared to score a victory in that decision.

But Republicans pushed hard to back the project on Wednesday, insisting the act would not simply rubber stamp a project, but ensure that all existing environmental standards will be met while creating jobs.

"There is no time for delay," Senators Dick Lugar of Indiana said. Environmental concerns are misguided, Lugar said, as the project would create less carbon emissions than other alternatives by eliminating the need for the costly transport of oil via other means.

Republican Senator Lisa Murkowski noted that killing the pipeline won't lead to a reduction in fossil fuel use the way opponents think it will. Rather, it will simply make the country have to pay more to bring in oil from farther away regions with less friendly regimes. "We know it's going to go to China anyway," she said.

The lawmakers pitched the urgency of their plan on Wednesday, but it was largely a political exercise. Democrats, led by Nevada Senator Harry Reid control the Senate and they are unlikely to go against the wishes of a Democratic president in the lead-up to an election.

Senators push Obama for Keystone action - Business - CBC News
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
117,180
14,240
113
Low Earth Orbit
The hub to hub energy and transportation corridors are a reality and aren't going to go away. So far they've been nice and haven't played the eminent domain card.
 

Kakato

Time Out
Jun 10, 2009
4,929
21
38
Alberta/N.W.T./Sask/B.C
It's coming! Pipeline work in Alberta is ramping up right now,Im just waiting for my call,hope it comes next monday,i want the weekend off.

Soon there wont be a sideboom left sitting anywhere in Alberta.