Don't bother.
He embroils you in a circular discussion - did it with me, Tonnington, petros and now you. He's too stubborn.
Let it go.
35 Facts About The Gutting Of America’s Industrial Might
- Thread starter petros
- Start date
Don't bother.
He embroils you in a circular discussion - did it with me, Tonnington, petros and now you. He's too stubborn.
Let it go.
What a joke you are... You have the kahuna's to pass judgement, but are unable to prove your point when asked to refute my position.... Your's is one of the most pathetic displays on these (or any) boards.
You can end this very easily but simply manning-up and backing your words MF... It ain't that hard.
It's not even a circular discussion, he asks people to back up things that he believes they said, because he can't read and follow a straightforward train of thought.
It explains some political leanings, that's for sure.
You and MF are really peas in a pod, aren't ya...
Both have nothing to say, but manage to express it over and over and over.
Both have nothing to say, but manage to express it over and over and over.
Do you have proof that I claimed anything about OWS having a coherent message? Show me the proof.
Sounds like the captain is desperately clinging to the wet dream of unbridled capitalism even as it self destructs in a hail storm of greed, corruption and incompetence.
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Executive Pay News - The New York Times
The following is a quote. The entire article can be read at the link.
Wall Street Under Fire
As the financial markets melted down in the fall of 2008, the nation’s largest banks received billions of dollars in bailout money, with few strings attached. In particular, the bailout funds were awarded without any stipulations on bank bonuses. That meant that banks were free to pay as they saw fit, even while on the government dole.
And pay they did. Wall Street firms awarded almost $18 billion in bonuses for 2008, a figure that prompted President Obama just days into his administration to say: “that is the height of irresponsibility. It is shameful.” Still, the value of those bonuses at the time was lower than the year before, because much of the bonuses were issued in companies’ stocks, which were at record low prices.
In February 2009, Senator Christopher J. Dodd, a Connecticut Democrat who was chairman of the Senate banking committee, inserted a rule about pay at the bailed-out banks into the economic stimulus. The rule did nothing to change the bonuses that had just been paid weeks earlier, but it required that bonuses paid in the future be paid in stock and not exceed one-third of total compensation.
The anger toward pay accelerated in March 2009, when news emerged that scores of employees at A.I.G., the bailed out insurance conglomerate, would be receiving multi-million dollar bonuses after the government had injected over $100 billion to keep it afloat. Lawmakers in Washington grilled A.I.G.’s chief executive on the matter in a hearing, and the House of Representatives passed a bill that would tax the previous year’s bonuses at a rate of 90 percent for all financial workers. (That bill was never taken up by the Senate or passed into law.)
Nothing to protest here folks.........move along.........take no notice. Yeah right.
Don't complain; you have to pay big bonuses to get big talent. And it takes big talent to drive these big banks into near bankruptcy. If those lazy idiot druggies protesting would simply go to work somewhere, the world would be a sunny, happy place.
No industry no economy. We in the west would do very well to begin to make our own shoes and clothes. As long as the bankers are free though nothing good will happen.
The answer to the problem of lost manufacturing jobs is really very simple. Just refuse to purchase anything that is not made in the USA.
Of course, that means no full size automobile under a Ford, or General Motors brand, as they are made in either Canada or Mexico. You could not purchase a Cell Phone, a television, a camera, a radio, the vast majority of kitchen appliances, and so on and so forth.
I remember when EVERY television sold in the USA was made in the USA. Then, we began importing TV's from Japan, which were significantly cheaper. Then they began to come from Malasia, Singapore, etc, and one by one the American companies moved their manufacturing out of the country, or closed down. Even RCA, which owned all of the relevant patents for Color TV's, went under.
The last US Manufacturer was Zenith, and they have been gone for over 20 years now.
People prefer cheap things, and the wages in North American will not allow for cheap goods. It's that simple. You can not compete with countries that pay 1-3 dollars a day, when you have to pay 20 plus dollars an hour (including benefits).
And, if you attempt to put tariff's on the goods from other countries, then they put tariff's on YOUR goods, and it is the big countries that suffer.
The "Dirty Thirties" or as it was known in the US "The Great Depression" was made a LOT worse by the protectionist legislation that virtually every country enacted. Protectionist legislation never works in the long run, as every manufacturing country has to export, or its industry dies.
Of course, that means no full size automobile under a Ford, or General Motors brand, as they are made in either Canada or Mexico. You could not purchase a Cell Phone, a television, a camera, a radio, the vast majority of kitchen appliances, and so on and so forth.
I remember when EVERY television sold in the USA was made in the USA. Then, we began importing TV's from Japan, which were significantly cheaper. Then they began to come from Malasia, Singapore, etc, and one by one the American companies moved their manufacturing out of the country, or closed down. Even RCA, which owned all of the relevant patents for Color TV's, went under.
The last US Manufacturer was Zenith, and they have been gone for over 20 years now.
People prefer cheap things, and the wages in North American will not allow for cheap goods. It's that simple. You can not compete with countries that pay 1-3 dollars a day, when you have to pay 20 plus dollars an hour (including benefits).
And, if you attempt to put tariff's on the goods from other countries, then they put tariff's on YOUR goods, and it is the big countries that suffer.
The "Dirty Thirties" or as it was known in the US "The Great Depression" was made a LOT worse by the protectionist legislation that virtually every country enacted. Protectionist legislation never works in the long run, as every manufacturing country has to export, or its industry dies.
You used to be able to fix a TV. Now we have planned obsolescence and non-replaceable circuitry. Did the foreigners come up with those grand schemes?
Protectionist legislation always works. It depends on perspective alone. Briefly, any culture who will not protect its economy soon won't have one. Only slavers support free global trade. Nothing is free, especially advice from a bankers and their god damned lawyers.
Protectionism works really well, as long as you never want something that only comes from another place.
The ONLY way to stop this from happening would be to strictly "But American Made". BUT, this would mean that you could not purchase any TV Set (there are none manufactured in the USA), almost no Stereo's, no portable music systems, no automobiles (ALL of them contain foreign made parts), virtually no clothing, and so on and so on.
And, those things that you COULD purchase would cost between 15-50% MORE than the imported goods.
So, how many people are really willing to do that, in order to create more jobs in their country?
And, those things that you COULD purchase would cost between 15-50% MORE than the imported goods.
So, how many people are really willing to do that, in order to create more jobs in their country?
Take a good look at the facts. After GM (Government Motors) got a Bail Out loan they went to Shanghai and built a huge new auto assembly plant. Later, under a big media blitz it was announced that the "Loan" had been paid back. In fact it had not. The government allowed GM credit on the loan for 12,000 motor vehicles. Many of which should qualify for the Lemon Law. Now more than 70,000 GM cars are assembled in Shanghai each month. GE moved it's corporate HQ off shore too and is now not paying the taxes it used to. There are more culprits too. They all have one thing in common. A huge Congressional Lobby and ownership of many serving in Congress.
The problem all boils down to 'free' trade. It allows us to import from other countries that allow deplorable working conditions(sweat shops, child labour, ect...) and lower environmental laws. Sure, we get stuff cheap, but the people making are suffering and we lose out on the jobs that manufacturing creates.
The solution, in my mind, would be to adopt a system of fair trade. So, import tarrifs would apply to products made under standards (working, environmental or other) that we wouldn't approve of - this would allow domestic companies to compete and also allowing importing of exotic goods and international trade under the same rules everywhere.
The best account I've read about the problems created by 'free' trade is Naomi Klein's No Logo - it deals with the fallout from having no manufacturing jobs left in the Western World, and with the working conditions of the countries where the jobs were relocated to.
The solution, in my mind, would be to adopt a system of fair trade. So, import tarrifs would apply to products made under standards (working, environmental or other) that we wouldn't approve of - this would allow domestic companies to compete and also allowing importing of exotic goods and international trade under the same rules everywhere.
The best account I've read about the problems created by 'free' trade is Naomi Klein's No Logo - it deals with the fallout from having no manufacturing jobs left in the Western World, and with the working conditions of the countries where the jobs were relocated to.
I'm sure this link has been posted here before, but regarding the decline of US industry I think this says it all.
Captured: The Ruins of Detroit | Plog
Captured: The Ruins of Detroit | Plog