That "E"-conomy Factor

Ocean Breeze

Ocean Breeze

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captain morgan

captain morgan

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Ocean Breeze said:
What path SHOULD they take , in your opinion??? Thx.
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Complete responsibility for their former and future decisions.

Greek society wanted more than they could afford and sadly, their politicians delivered just that... What they are faced with now is that those benefits that they received today were financed by mortgaging the futures of the Greek youth... If anyone is really to blame in this scenario, it is those that demanded - and received - those benefits at the next generation(s) expense.

The global investing /banking community simply gave them what they wanted today under the promise that the cash would be returned. Now that the party is over, Greek society has to deal with the inevitable hangover.

The best thing that they can do is tackle this issue head-on and learn from their experience.
 
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Cliffy

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It is the Greeks decision to make. The bankers won't like it. Too bad. They will be voting on whether or not they want to dictated to by other countries or do they want to keep their sovereignty. Like several countries before them, they will hopefully choose sovereignty. The world banking community needs a good swift kick in the nuts and the Greeks have a chance to deliver it.
 
Ocean Breeze

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German Economists on Greek Referendum

'The Euro Zone Could Face Ruin'


German Economists on Greek Referendum: 'The Euro Zone Could Face Ruin' - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International

captain morgan said:
Complete responsibility for their former and future decisions.

Greek society wanted more than they could afford and sadly, their politicians delivered just that... What they are faced with now is that those benefits that they received today were financed by mortgaging the futures of the Greek youth... If anyone is really to blame in this scenario, it is those that demanded - and received - those benefits at the next generation(s) expense.

The global investing /banking community simply gave them what they wanted today under the promise that the cash would be returned. Now that the party is over, Greek society has to deal with the inevitable hangover.

The best thing that they can do is tackle this issue head-on and learn from their experience.
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......OK......"tackle the issue head on". How do you suggest they do that ?? what specifics would be in order.

thx.

Humans being what they are.....don't do well at learning from their experience. Otherwise one would not see the same issues coming up in a repetative way that is discouraging at best.
 
captain morgan

captain morgan

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Ocean Breeze said:
German Economists on Greek Referendum 'The Euro Zone Could Face Ruin'.
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If the Greeks are thinking of purposefully defaulting on the debt, the EU would be better-off providing that same financing to the European banks that would experience the loss.

The EU will need to keep the banks liquid, so assuming that the banks were willing to take a 50% write-down, offer them the difference in cash or through tax exemptions.


Ocean Breeze said:
......OK......"tackle the issue head on". How do you suggest they do that ?? what specifics would be in order.

thx.
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  1. Take the bail-out money.
  2. Reform the tax system in Greece (ie. actually collect taxes)
  3. Scale-back the social services.
  4. Increase the retirement age to a more reasonable age.
  5. Downsize government.
  6. Promote more private sector activity.

Ocean Breeze said:
Humans being what they are.....don't do well at learning from their experience. Otherwise one would not see the same issues coming up in a repetative way that is discouraging at best.
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That depends on the nature of the experience... Believe me, if Greece elects to default on the loans, they will be in for a very rocky road for the next 40-50 years.... My bet is that if they do take that path, they will suffer greatly and never do it again.
 
Ocean Breeze

Ocean Breeze

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captain morgan said:
If the Greeks are thinking of purposefully defaulting on the debt, the EU would be better-off providing that same financing to the European banks that would experience the loss.

The EU will need to keep the banks liquid, so assuming that the banks were willing to take a 50% write-down, offer them the difference in cash or through tax exemptions.





  1. Take the bail-out money.
  2. Reform the tax system in Greece (ie. actually collect taxes)
  3. Scale-back the social services.
  4. Increase the retirement age to a more reasonable age.
  5. Downsize government.
  6. Promote more private sector activity.


That depends on the nature of the experience... Believe me, if Greece elects to default on the loans, they will be in for a very rocky road for the next 40-50 years.... My bet is that if they do take that path, they will suffer greatly and never do it again.
Click to expand...

exellent points, and effectively condensed.
 
Ocean Breeze

Ocean Breeze

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Bill Gates (the .001%) Joins the 99% for Robin Hood Tax

One of the world's richest and many of the poorest agree on something, but the Obama administration is holding out.

by Sarah Anderson
The world's second-richest man and a group of American nurses on the frontlines of the Occupy Wall Street protests came to the G20 summit in Cannes, France this week to advocate for the same thing.
Bill Gates backs the financial transactions tax. (Photo by Tristan Nitot)
Bill Gates came because French President Nicolas Sarkozy asked him to give G20 leaders recommendations on how to raise funds to meet the needs of the world's poorest. Among Gates' proposals: a small tax on trades of stocks, derivatives, and other financial instruments, also known as a financial transactions tax (FTT), Wall Street speculation tax, or the Robin Hood tax.

Bill Gates (the .001%) Joins the 99% for Robin Hood Tax | Common Dreams
 
Ocean Breeze

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G20 grapples with global economic shift - and the eurozone debt crisis


Großansicht des Bildes mit der Bildunterschrift: All eyes are on the eurozone

The world's 20 largest economies met for a final day of crisis talks in Cannes, where they wrestled with a global shift from the developed nations to powerful new emerging economies - and irritation from the eurozone.





The uncertainty in the eurozone and the political turmoil in Greece hung over the G20 summit in Cannes, France like a dark cloud. A flurry of crisis sessions came one after the other in a bid by the International Monetary Fund (IMF), the eurozone members and other G20 states to find an answer to the global challenges coming from Athens.

G20 grapples with global economic shift - and the eurozone debt crisis | Europe | Deutsche Welle | 04.11.2011
 
Ocean Breeze

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Greek Prime Minister George Papandreou will resign after the makeup of the nation's new coalition government is decided, officials said Sunday.



Sunday's Cabinet meeting will be the last with Papandreou as prime minister, a government spokesman said in a statement.



The meeting will focus on issues relating to Monday's Euro group meeting, at which Finance Minister Evangelos Venizelos will represent Greece, the statement said.



A spokesman for Papandreou's Socialist PASOK party said the prime minister will resign after the government is announced.



Venizelos is likely to remain in his post as finance minister in a new government, sources told Greek television. Candidates for the prime minister's job include Petros Moliviatis and Loukas Papaimos, according to Greek television.



The new government will have a life of four months, according to Greek television, citing sources, and elections will be held in early spring.



The announcement comes amid economic and political turmoil in Greece and the formation of a coalition government tasked with saving the nation from bankruptcy.



A Greek default could drag down larger European economies, in particular those of Italy and Spain, as well as struggling Portugal and Ireland, analysts warn.

**********source: CNN breaking news mailing.
 
Ocean Breeze

Ocean Breeze

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Growing fears about Italy's debt problems hammered stocks in the United States and around the world on Wednesday.



Stocks were hit hard from the open after Italian bond yields spiked above 7%, raising concern that Italy may be headed toward needing a bailout. European officials reportedly said later in the day that a rescue was out of the question, adding to the selling pressure.



The Dow Jones industrial average sank 389 points while the S&P 500 fell 3.9%, and the Nasdaq dropped 3.6%.



The day's selloff puts the S&P 500 and Nasdaq back in negative territory for the year, while the Dow is up just 1.7% in 2011.

>+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=Source: CNN breaking news.

Breaking News Alert

The New York Times

Wednesday, November 9, 2011 -- 4:05 PM EST

-----



U.S. Stock Indexes Tumble by Over 3% on Fears About Italy’s Debt



Stocks plummeted Wednesday and European bond yields rose to worrying levels on fears that Europe’s sovereign debt crisis was widening.



As trading came to an end on Wall Street, the Dow Jones industrial average was down nearly 390 points, or more than 3 percent. The broader Standard & Poor’s index was off about 3.7 percent, with bank stocks hit the hardest.



European shares fared little better, and the euro tumbled. Bond yields in Italy, one of Europe’s largest economies, surpassed 7 percent, approaching the level that had sent other euro zone nations to seek bailouts. Spanish and French bond yields also rose, amid fears that the contagion could spread further.



Read More:

http://www.nytimes.com/?emc=na
 
Ocean Breeze

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Stock markets soared on Wednesday after the U.S. Federal Reserve and other central banks unexpectedly announced a plan to make it cheaper for banks around the world to borrow U.S. dollars -- a staple of global financial transactions.



The aim was to not only lower the cost of short-term borrowing for troubled European banks, but also to keep the global economy out of an all-out credit crunch as in 2008.



The move gave investors hope -- at least for the day -- that world leaders would continue to take necessary steps to avoid a market paralysis stemming from Europe's government debt crisis.



The Dow Jones industrial average had its best day of 2011, rising more than 480 points, or more than 4%. The S&P 500 and Nasdaq composite also jumped more than 4% apiece.
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source: CNN breaking news.
 
damngrumpy

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Cliffy has a point, they want people to suffer into submission. The problem is the people who
are in fact part of the problem, have no desire to be that patient. We are beginning to see the
first protests with both the Occupy Wall Street crowd and on the other end of the scale the
Tea Party. In the middle is the confuse majority. At some point civil disobedience will take the
place of suffering and the rising voices of discontent will consume those who had a desire to
dismantle the economy. The French Revolution came about from serious upheaval in the
economy, the Soviet Union was created out of economic and social oppression. The Second
World War was fought because the west needed to dig out from a full economic depression.
The economy factor could touch off the ugliest upheaval in society in two centuries and when
its over God knows who will bear the brunt of it.

For those who engage in such engineering they should heed the words of the late JFK.
He once said He who rides the back of the tiger ultimately ends up inside
 
L Gilbert

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Ocean Breeze said:
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CBS News: Breaking News Alert Sept. 2, 2011

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The jobless rate stayed at 9.1 percent in August with no net jobs added, the government reports.


source: CBS News alert mailing.



More on same from CNN:

The U.S. says the economy added no jobs in August, the worst number since September 2010. The jobless rate was unchanged at 9.1%.

While the number was partially distorted by a one-time quirk from more than 40,000 striking Verizon workers, it was still weak in comparison to job gains of about 200,000 a month earlier this year.

Economists typically estimate the nation needs to add about 150,000 jobs each month to keep up with population growth alone. It needs even stronger growth to recover the millions of jobs lost during the financial crisis.

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What's with the news about unemployment from August last year? This is 2012. U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics
 
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