Tempers Flare Over School Prayers In Toronto

[karrie]

I really do not understand...the prayer services are not part of the curriculum, the school is not paying in any way shape or form for them, students are going voluntarily, it allows students who might otherwise have to attend private schools to assimilate a bit more, what's the big freak out about?

You can't accommodate all of them in the system so we have a secular system.

The system should never cater to a religion. That's the point of secularism yes. It shouldn't cater to, or fund religion, or give religious arguments precendence in its system. But, in disallowing the presence of any religion within its framework, it's giving voice to anti-religion sentiment. If I want my child to wear a cross she should be allowed to. If a student can find time in a break to pray, they should be allowed to pray. As they fit it into the secular framework, they should be allowed it.

 

[gerryh]

I really do not understand...the prayer services are not part of the curriculum, the school is not paying in any way shape or form for them, students are going voluntarily, it allows students who might otherwise have to attend private schools to assimilate a bit more, what's the big freak out about?

It's MUSLIM.....it's ISLAM

 

[Cliffy]

I really do not understand...the prayer services are not part of the curriculum, the school is not paying in any way shape or form for them, students are going voluntarily, it allows students who might otherwise have to attend private schools to assimilate a bit more, what's the big freak out about?

What if other religious groups decide they want to do the same? Is there enough room in the school to accommodate all of them? I think it is more about special dispensation for one group, the inequality of it that is upsetting people. Then again, it might just be the prejudice against Muslims that the media has so artfully propagated.

 

[DurkaDurka]

What if other religious groups decide they want to do the same? Is there enough room in the school to accommodate all of them? I think it is more about special dispensation for one group, the inequality of it that is upsetting people. Then again, it might just be the prejudice against Muslims that the media has so artfully propagated.

I think that's the problem, you cannot accommodate everyone. Should the school day be split into chunks to accommodate Muslims, Christians, Jews & Hindus? If these parents believe their children need religious instruction at school, they can choose A: Home School. B: Private School. C: Tough ****

 

[gerryh]

What if other religious groups decide they want to do the same? Is there enough room in the school to accommodate all of them? I think it is more about special dispensation for one group, the inequality of it that is upsetting people. Then again, it might just be the prejudice against Muslims that the media has so artfully propagated.

I think that's the problem, you cannot accommodate everyone. Should the school day be split into chunks to accommodate Muslims, Christians, Jews & Hindus? If these parents believe their children need religious instruction at school, they can choose A: Home School. B: Private School. C: Tough ****

Considering the Jews, Christians, Hindus, etc have not lobbied for a "prayer time" up to this point, I believe this objection is moot.

 

[Goober]

It's MUSLIM.....it's ISLAM

Does Islam have the Constitutional Guarantees that were agreed to in the BNA? No

This program has been running as an experimental program for approx 9 years –

I have noted that when Catholics or Protestants asked for a room to pray in the uproar was huge. No place for religion in the schools /universities – No way this will happen – Separation of Church and State. And if you Google this you will find recent cases, after this experimental program began where Christians were denied this same right to pray.

Now it is another religion and suddenly it is OK. Really. It was not OK if it was a Christian sect.
Can you see why some people would be upset. No they are not all Islam Haters. They wonder why the sudden double standard.

 

[DurkaDurka]

Considering the Jews, Christians, Hindus, etc have not lobbied for a "prayer time" up to this point, I believe this objection is moot.

It's bound to happen at some point. If group A is receiving something that group B & C does not, it's only natural that they will eventually demand the same.

 

[gerryh]

Considering Christians don't typically have set prayer times, as Muslims do, I still feel it is moot.

 

[Goober]

Considering Christians don't typically have set prayer times, as Muslims do, I still feel it is moot.

Considering their religion provides relief for that, your moot in now mooted.

 

[karrie]

What if other religious groups decide they want to do the same? Is there enough room in the school to accommodate all of them? I think it is more about special dispensation for one group, the inequality of it that is upsetting people. Then again, it might just be the prejudice against Muslims that the media has so artfully propagated.

I think if other religious groups want to do the same they should be allowed too, so long as there's room. If they run out of room, the groups should have to figure it out and tell the school how they'll do it, or the privilege be suspended until they can. But I don't see any other groups beating down the door to do the same.

 

[DurkaDurka]

Considering Christians don't typically have set prayer times, as Muslims do, I still feel it is moot.

Gerry, you can argue the smaller picture all you want but the point is this group is currently receiving preferential treatment in a secular school environment. Not to mention that the Toronto District School Board is giving tacit approval of segregation by allow this to occur. Not allowing other students to access the cafeteria because Muslims happen to be in there? It's a farce.

 

[gerryh]

Gerry, you can argue the smaller picture all you want but the point is this group is currently receiving preferential treatment in a secular school environment. Not to mention that the Toronto District School Board is giving tacit approval of segregation by allow this to occur. Not allowing other students to access the cafeteria because Muslims happen to be in there? It's a farce.

When I went to school, we had an after school Martial Arts club. While we were using the gym for that hour, no other students were allowed in. Was this also a farce? Would this fall under your "segregation" scenario?

 

[wulfie68]

I think if other religious groups want to do the same they should be allowed too, so long as there's room. If they run out of room, the groups should have to figure it out and tell the school how they'll do it, or the privilege be suspended until they can. But I don't see any other groups beating down the door to do the same.

Christian sects have been after this type of thing for decades, Karrie, all across the country, and been summarily dismissed.

As I said before, I wouldn't have an issue with muslims, hindus, christians or anyone else as long as

a) they didn't interfere with regular access/activities conducted by the school - these meetings are in a cafeteria, during lunch time. What are non-muslim kids supposed to do for lunch?
b) the kids should have the right to opt in or out as they desire - previous articles in a different thread gave the impression that this was not the case
c) any such activities do not behave in a discriminatory manner - again previous articles/threads/discussion have given evidence that sexist practices were employed, thus I think this is something that should NOT be supported by a public school district.

Once again, there is no obligation to let this happen for ANY group in a public school, and I don't see much up-side to justify generating the controversy. The kids can still go pray after school if that is what they/their parents so desire.

When I went to school, we had an after school Martial Arts club. While we were using the gym for that hour, no other students were allowed in. Was this also a farce? Would this fall under your "segregation" scenario?

The difference is your club was after hours. These prayer meetings are occuring during regular school days and possibly interfering with non-muslims having their lunch.

 

[TenPenny]

Considering Christians don't typically have set prayer times, as Muslims do, I still feel it is moot.

Christians also often let boys and girls sit together, and don't ban girls who are menstruating from attending services.

 

[karrie]

Christians also often let boys and girls sit together, and don't ban girls who are menstruating from attending services.

Did you now there are native ceremonies that menstruating women aren't supposed to partake in? The fact that none of these articles mentions that goes to show how they're trying to sensationalize the issue.

 

[DurkaDurka]

Well then, I guess they can just ignore it by abusing the notwithstanding clause. If Quebec can do it, why not Ontario?

Funny, the last time an Ontarian politician (John Tory) used religious school funding as an election promise, he lost the election handily. Your dream has about a zero chance of coming to life.

When I went to school, we had an after school Martial Arts club. While we were using the gym for that hour, no other students were allowed in. Was this also a farce? Would this fall under your "segregation" scenario?

Please, Gerry. I hope you can do better then that, last time I checked, Karate isn't a religion nor is segregation based on sex and religion part of its creed.

 

[TenPenny]

Did you now there are native ceremonies that menstruating women aren't supposed to partake in? The fact that none of these articles mentions that goes to show how they're trying to sensationalize the issue.

That gives me less respect for the natives, that's for sure.

Ancient traditions are all well and good, but that stuff is stupid.

 

[Goober]

When I went to school, we had an after school Martial Arts club. While we were using the gym for that hour, no other students were allowed in. Was this also a farce? Would this fall under your "segregation" scenario?

After school for an approved use - What a comparison – Zero points for that one - - Try religion and see how far it would go.

 

[Machjo]

How is allowing Moslim prayers in schools equal treatment?

Well, it's still not equal, but at least brings it one step closer to a separate school ssytem the holy days of which are all statutory holidays guaranteeing school will be closed on that day.

 

[Goober]

Well, it's still not equal, but at least brings it one step closer to a separate school ssytem the holy days of which are all statutory holidays guaranteeing school will be closed on that day.

Correct it is still not equal - Christians have been denied this time and again. So you see this as a positive?
If so why were Christians denied the same right and recently at that.