9-11-ten yrs Later

[Ocean Breeze]

PS.........sometimes it is what is NOT OBVIOUS and what cannot be explained by equations etc. ( although that is important too. )

It is also not reasonable to say these bozos were not bright ......as to pull off what was truly brillant ...as the event changed the country and the world in just a few moments on a Sept morning. An event of such magnitude cannot be simplistically explained as "they" would have you believe.

............the reality is that it is frightening to even consider the implications of the "help" they might have had. It goes against everything we as a civilzed nation stand for............and yet.....one cannot rule it out.

We have no idea of the degree of horrific "ops" that are carried out around the world for political reasons. History has shown that leaders (not all of course) have not hesitated to kill a few of their own people for political reasons, power etc etc. Particulary if such an "op" would enhance the leaders power ( different rules when the nation is "threatened " or at war) and facsilitate said leader/ gov't agenda.

What did the terrorists gain? Have you tried getting on an airplane lately? Have you noticed a lot of American tourists up here throwing disposable income around? Sure they had some help - in lax measures and an almost smug sense of security. They were experienced pilots - none of whom are really all that hard to find. Among people who believe the after life is infinitely better than the one at hand, what does death matter? Don't apply Western ideals and values on another culture. That may well be one of the root causes of the resent.

Re: security on plans and airports.

The terrorists did not "gain " anything there. The leadership and the population willingly created and consented to have all that put in place on the basis of national security. Mention national security and the people gladly give up their rights and freedoms for their personal security or the promise of.

Ya see , In reality there is NO :SUCH THING a complete personal security or national security and that is why good judgement is important when these decisions are made.

death does not matter to suicidal terrorista anyhow. They are there for a "cause" of some kind that might only make sense to them in a perverse kind of way. They are prepared to die for their cause , belief or whatever the issue is. And that alone makes them irrational .

 

[captain morgan]

We have no idea of the degree of horrific "ops" that are carried out around the world for political reasons. History has shown that leaders (not all of course) have not hesitated to kill a few of their own people for political reasons, power etc etc. Particulary if such an "op" would enhance the leaders power ( different rules when the nation is "threatened " or at war) and facsilitate said leader/ gov't agenda.

... But we do know all about the horrific practices of the Religion of Peace in terms of the brutality against their own kind, their propensity to use women & children as human shields, let alone the obscene actions that they have taken against innocents in other cultures.

That said, spare me the ongoing, highly liberal interpretations of the Western actions in the absence of any form of nominal analysis of this 'culture' that you so vehemently defend.

 

[lone wolf]

PS.........sometimes it is what is NOT OBVIOUS and what cannot be explained by equations etc. ( although that is important too. )

It is also not reasonable to say these bozos were not bright ......as to pull off what was truly brillant ...as the event changed the country and the world in just a few moments on a Sept morning. An event of such magnitude cannot be simplistically explained as "they" would have you believe.

............the reality is that it is frightening to even consider the implications of the "help" they might have had. It goes against everything we as a civilzed nation stand for............and yet.....one cannot rule it out.

We have no idea of the degree of horrific "ops" that are carried out around the world for political reasons. History has shown that leaders (not all of course) have not hesitated to kill a few of their own people for political reasons, power etc etc. Particulary if such an "op" would enhance the leaders power ( different rules when the nation is "threatened " or at war) and facsilitate said leader/ gov't agenda.



Re: security on plans and airports.

The terrorists did not "gain " anything there. The leadership and the population willingly created and consented to have all that put in place on the basis of national security. Mention national security and the people gladly give up their rights and freedoms for their personal security or the promise of.

Ya see , In reality there is NO :SUCH THING a complete personal security or national security and that is why good judgement is important when these decisions are made.

death does not matter to suicidal terrorista anyhow. They are there for a "cause" of some kind that might only make sense to them in a perverse kind of way. They are prepared to die for their cause , belief or whatever the issue is. And that alone makes them irrational .

Personally, I loved the times I could go to Toronto Airport and watch airplanes - up close from an open observation deck.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

Captain:

Sorry, but you misinterpret. No one is "defending" anything. Just saying that it is critical to view that event from a broader view than what we were told and expected to believe.

If we condemn inhumanity; in other cultures (and we do) , we must be prepared to objectively assess and condemn atrocities done by our own as well.

IF you believe that the so called 'west" is without horrific behavior ..... OR if you think that just because we are the west , that we should be able to get away with our own horrors......then you live by a hypocracy that is not humane. or fair.

It is very easy to rage about the barbarism of other cultures , while ignoring our own. It is also unreasonable

Personally, I loved the times I could go to Toronto Airport and watch airplanes - up close from an open observation deck.

Oh I know. Only we did it in Calgary and Vancouver. I used to LOVE to fly.

*******sigh.

 

[petros]

I thought you produced proof that a jet blown up in the air still dumped the wing box on the ground (see Lockerbie).

So, what happened to it, since your theory doesn't hold water according to your theory.

It holds water. Which part of an aircraft does luggage go? In the wing box? Engines? Landing gear?

 

[captain morgan]

Sorry, but you misinterpret. No one is "defending" anything. Just saying that it is critical to view that event from a broader view than what we were told and expected to believe.

My interpretation of your opinion on this issue is that by not offering any form of critical; assessment of one culture, but are overly critical of another - you are (in effect) defending one group by virtue of not condemning those actions.

If we condemn inhumanity; in other cultures (and we do) , we must be prepared to objectively assess and condemn atrocities done by our own as well.

It's a 2-way street... You have to be prepared to be fully objective on all fronts.

IF you believe that the so called 'west" is without horrific behavior ..... OR if you think that just because we are the west , that we should be able to get away with our own horrors......then you live by a hypocracy that is not humane. or fair.

Sure, the West has an abundance of examples that represent cruelty, however, that is also in the face that we have a Free Press that seeks to identify these events.

I wonder how many of the heinous crimes that we don't get to see in places like Saudi, Iran or Palestine... We only get the stuff that is inadvertently sourced... Regardless, it is unbelievable that this culture (of Peace mind you) has a strong element that perpetuates the strapping of bombs to mentally handicapped women to be remotely detonated in and amongst innocents... The only description of that is butchery and savagery.

 

[talloola]

We didn't see the barbarism of another culture, we saw right in front of our faces, the act of a thug,
who happens to be arab, not afghan, a reject of his own country.

It is interesting to see how many weave and spin what happened into some form of a movie of the year,
but it was very simple, and worked much more successfully as he had planned it, along with his assistant.

It really is a simple plan, so simple that any of us could have done it, just like one of those inventions,
that is so easy and simple to do, and we always say, "why couldn't I have thought of that", well, it was
so simple that even george bush couldn't think of it, far above his grade level.

at least it did one thing, brought the wicked deed to the surface, now it isn't a new idea any more, and
won't work quite as easy if tried again.

It isn't a culture, it is a criminal, committing murder, no different than the lockerby explosion, or the
air india explosion.
He has been disposed of now, a good thing.

 

[damngrumpy]

The attack was a criminal act of murder. It was an act of war, and it was a crime against
humanity. Those wonderful dedicated fundamentalist Muslims, had no regard for the
lives of small children. Even the lives potentially, of little Muslim Children.
This conflict was started by a small group of people who were using Afghanistan as a
base to commit murder and acts of evil. I know we have heard it before that America and
the West have in recent years treated the Arabs badly.
They have provided food during times of famine, they have provided medicine and housing
during earth quakes and provided electricity and schools and even roads. These are such
terrible to things to do. Imagine trying to educate little kids especially little girls who need to
be protected just for going to school
Those grateful people are so happy to be fed, clothed, housed and educated that they plant
bombs in England, and crash our planes with people on them into buildings. If this is a
measure of their gratitude I have had all the thank yous I need.

The only positive thing that happened is it put an end to celebrating the loss of life at Pearl
Harbour, it too fifty years to put that behind Americans. Oh there is a second benefit, the
West is now awake and another act like this will have serious consequences for Muslims,
if it happened again. It is really unfortunate, because all Muslims, are not terrorists and they
are not plotting against us but they do not speak out against those who are criminals and
murderers.
I must admit though I am getting tired of the propaganda tears every year for an injustice that
is just one of many around the world. Our time would be better spent putting an end to the
injustices in the world, instead of mourning after the fact about a single act in history.

 

[earth_as_one]

911 Flight 93's Mysterious Second Debris Field at Indian Lake Miles Away - YouTube

The primary debris field is the crash site. Its shape indicates the plane crashed at a near vertical angle.

One engine impacted about half a mile away and lighter debris was found in two other debris fields. One in a nearby lake and another about eight miles away in New Baltimore. A 9 mph wind cannot blow a one-ton engine a half-mile, nor could it blow light debris for eight miles. A plane engine could tumble a fair distance if the plane didn't crash vertically and it would leave a trail.

The engine had to have separated from the rest of the aircraft before impact. The lighter material had to have come from the airplane before it hit the ground. The plane must have broke up in the air, which indicates either it was blown up with a bomb or it was shot down. It would have to have been a huge bomb to separate the engine from the rest of the plane. A heat seeking AAM would likely strike an aircraft in an engine and separate it from the rest of the plane. Some debris would be released at the same time as the impact and more debris would be fall off the plane as it tumbled to the ground.

Most likely Flight 93 was shot down.

I have no doubt that many people know what happened and they are part of the effort to obfuscate the cause of Flight 93's crash, keeping quiet or they have been discredited. Also, I believe that specious ideas have been deliberately seeded in the "9/11 skeptic" community in order to distract and discredit them.

 

[TenPenny]

It holds water. Which part of an aircraft does luggage go? In the wing box? Engines? Landing gear?

I guess I'm missing something.

You say that the wing box is so strong and so large that it cannot simply disappear, and that it would leave a massive hole if the plane crashed. Your explanation is that the plane must have blown up in the air, and as an example, you use Lockerbie, where you point out where the wing box landed. So, if your theory is true (plane blew up in the air), where did the wing box land, since it could not simply disappear according to your theory.

 

[petros]

I guess I'm missing something. So, if your theory is true (plane blew up in the air), where did the wing box land, since it could not simply disappear according to your theory.

I've only asked where the hell it is. I never said it made the ditch in Penn. You just did. I posted the pic to show what the wing box did in Lockerbie. Would you like to see the other ditches from all the other intact parts such as engine and landing gear in Lockerbie? Google away! While at it enjoy a few hundred other plane crashes where there is actually identifiable aircraft parts.

Or are you one of those that believe all the debris fell into the shaft of a strip mine?

 

[petros]

I guess I'm missing something. So, if your theory is true (plane blew up in the air), where did the wing box land, since it could not simply disappear according to your theory.

I've only asked where the hell it is. I never said it made the ditch in Penn. You just did. I posted the pic to show what the wing box did in Lockerbie. Would you like to see the other ditches from all the other intact parts such as engine and landing gear in Lockerbie? Google away! While at it enjoy a few hundred other plane crashes where there is actually identifiable aircraft parts.

Or are you one of those that believe all the debris fell into the shaft of a strip mine?

 

[CDNBear]

I've only asked where the hell it is.

No didn't just ask "where the hell it is."

I didn't scratch you.

And you tied this same silly cop out on nano thermite. Another conversation that turned asinine, when you couldn't support your claims anymore, in the face of factual evidence.

If you're so sure of your theory, why is answering questions so hard for you to do?

I really am interested in your thoughts here.

Like when you pointed out the your conclusions regarding the size of debris, was from the FBI's final conclusions, I said fair enough and moved on to other parts of your posts.

I am willing to listen, if you're willing to discuss and answer questions in a mature and honest manner.

Blowed up good. Real good. While still in the air.

Then you ignored my question...

Do know how an air to air HSM works?

Well, do you?

 

[petros]

Then you ignored my question...

Was it valid?

 

[CDNBear]

Was it valid?

Obviously it was, or you wouldn't have ignored it. Then gone on to lie about what you've said.

 

[petros]

I split for the day. What was your question?

 

[CDNBear]

I split for the day. What was your question?

Oh, that old gag again...yawn...

Thanx for coming out petros, as usual it was funny boxing you in, and then watching you squirm when you get called on your crap.

 

[petros]

I'll ask again.What do you want to know?

 

[CDNBear]

I'll ask again.What do you want to know?

If you're actually interested in an honest conversation, scroll back. Look for the "?" in my posts.

 

[petros]

Which "my theory"? Is that what you want to know?