Why Can't Egypt Feed Itself?

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dumpthemonarchy

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Typical article in the Guardian about the coming food shortages due to climate change etc. States the "world food ssytem" is broken. But it's not for us. But it is for 900 million hungry people, I think becaue people in those countries have no markets or underdeveloped markets. As the price of energy increases, political will is required to give these countries markets that function or many will starve. Markets function just fine for us, why not them.

The article doesn't discuss markets at all, like there is something wrong with them, which is not true for us. Guilt is not going to feed these people in the coming years.

'Perfect storm' looms for world's food supplies: Oxfam - Health & Families, Life & Style - The Independent
 
Tonington

Tonington

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Oct 27, 2006
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dumpthemonarchy said:
Typical article in the Guardian about the coming food shortages due to climate change etc. States the "world food ssytem" is broken. But it's not for us. But it is for 900 million hungry people, I think becaue people in those countries have no markets or underdeveloped markets. As the price of energy increases, political will is required to give these countries markets that function or many will starve. Markets function just fine for us, why not them.

The article doesn't discuss markets at all, like there is something wrong with them, which is not true for us. Guilt is not going to feed these people in the coming years.

'Perfect storm' looms for world's food supplies: Oxfam - Health & Families, Life & Style - The Independent
Click to expand...

From your link, which is not from the Guardian:

  • the price of some staples will more than double by 2030
  • spend up to 80 percent of their income on food
  • rising energy prices
  • rising demand for meat and dairy products and competition for land from biofuels
  • Demand for food would rise even higher, by 70 percent
  • The price of staple foods such as corn, also known as maize, which has already hit record peaks, will more than double in the next 20 years
  • The report also calls for prising open closed markets and ending the domination of commodities and seeds trade by a handful of large corporations
All of that is market related...rising prices, rising demand, where do you think those prices are set, if not in the market? Where is the demand, if it's not in a market? And they even outright mention market, the last bullet I included.

Do you have any substantive comments based on what the report actually suggested, given the findings?

petros said:
We've spread heavy producing disease vulnerable varieties far and wide as aid projects but in the process have eliminated disease and drought resistant cereal grains that in the long run we desperatly need to cross bred back into the new varieties to increase their resistance to diseases, drought and saline soils.
Click to expand...

That's true, modern plant science is far too reliant on molecular techniques. Not that I don't think there is a place for molecular technology, but it's come at a loss. Conventional breeding techniques can be just as good, plants with novel traits...damn Europeans call that a genetically modified organism. Almost like they want to halt evolution...while the pests and diseases do just that.
 
unclepercy

unclepercy

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Bar Sinister said:
Do you even bother to check any of your "facts" before you make a post or do you specialize in dancing on water?

PressTV - Iran to send 3rd aid shipment to Japan

Seems there is something in it for Iran since the only recipient you mentioned was Japan. Now, give me the stats on US vs Iran on humanitarian aid. That ought to keep you busy. I'd be a little more prone to believe comparison stats in hard cold numbers, than your skewed attempt to discredit anything I say.

We all know it is true. Iran is NOT the first country in general that anyone would turn to for help. In fact, the US doesn't turn to others for help. And damned little we get. We pick up our own messes or suffer through it. Because you (Canada) are our neighbor, you have helped on several occasions (Katrina and 9-11, for example). Thank you. If you had not helped, the world would have whispered - what is the matter with Canada?

I suggested we take turns when there is a major disaster. What has Africa done for the world lately? I guess they have been busy dancing on the water, thrashing, splashing, crashing, and all those other valuable contributions.

Uncle

Uncle
Click to expand...
 
petros

petros

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YukonJack said:
Care to elaborate how you formed that opinion?
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Every "crisis" like clock work the country whips out the spades and shovels and builds infrastructure for job creation then puts them on pogey for a year and half or two if they take training.

Oh and add national parks for some odd reason.

Rock in urban lingo = Crack.
 
Y

YukonJack

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Dec 26, 2008
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petros said:
Every "crisis" like clock work the country whips out the spades and shovels and builds infrastructure for job creation then puts them on pogey for a year and half or two if they take training.

Oh and add national parks for some odd reason.

Rock in urban lingo = Crack.
Click to expand...

I usually call a spade a spade, (Heaven knows I have been banned for it) but not any more. I do not wish to be called a racist.

I stiil have no clue about your big rock/crack rerefence.
 
cranky

cranky

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"why cant egypt feed itself?"

Because they got themselves into a pyramid scheme :)
 
D

dumpthemonarchy

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Tonington said:
From your link, which is not from the Guardian:

  • the price of some staples will more than double by 2030
  • spend up to 80 percent of their income on food
  • rising energy prices
  • rising demand for meat and dairy products and competition for land from biofuels
  • Demand for food would rise even higher, by 70 percent
  • The price of staple foods such as corn, also known as maize, which has already hit record peaks, will more than double in the next 20 years
  • The report also calls for prising open closed markets and ending the domination of commodities and seeds trade by a handful of large corporations
All of that is market related...rising prices, rising demand, where do you think those prices are set, if not in the market? Where is the demand, if it's not in a market? And they even outright mention market, the last bullet I included.

Do you have any substantive comments based on what the report actually suggested, given the findings?

That's true, modern plant science is far too reliant on molecular techniques. Not that I don't think there is a place for molecular technology, but it's come at a loss. Conventional breeding techniques can be just as good, plants with novel traits...damn Europeans call that a genetically modified organism. Almost like they want to halt evolution...while the pests and diseases do just that.
Click to expand...

Should have got the source right. Whatever paper these articles appear, they all sound the same when it comes to Africa. Call it food issue fatigue.

There are always problems, the general gist of the article seems to be that these countries can do little on their own to correct their serious problems. The article seems to imply, "We westerners ought to fix their problems since we made them all." Which we didn't.

These poor countries don't have much money, and technology that could help them, they can't afford much of it. They seem very passive here. Their subsistence agriculture holds them back, they are not productive, and if you're not productive, you're screwed. African seems very screwed here with no end in sight.
 
Tonington

Tonington

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Do you think they would farm for subsistence only, if they had the option to farm more?
 
Bar Sinister

Bar Sinister

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unclepercy said:
Bar Sinister said:
Do you even bother to check any of your "facts" before you make a post or do you specialize in dancing on water?

PressTV - Iran to send 3rd aid shipment to Japan

Seems there is something in it for Iran since the only recipient you mentioned was Japan. Now, give me the stats on US vs Iran on humanitarian aid. That ought to keep you busy. I'd be a little more prone to believe comparison stats in hard cold numbers, than your skewed attempt to discredit anything I say.

We all know it is true. Iran is NOT the first country in general that anyone would turn to for help. In fact, the US doesn't turn to others for help. And damned little we get. We pick up our own messes or suffer through it. Because you (Canada) are our neighbor, you have helped on several occasions (Katrina and 9-11, for example). Thank you. If you had not helped, the world would have whispered - what is the matter with Canada?

I suggested we take turns when there is a major disaster. What has Africa done for the world lately? I guess they have been busy dancing on the water, thrashing, splashing, crashing, and all those other valuable contributions.

Uncle

Uncle
Click to expand...

I hate to rain on your anti-Iranian parade, but I had no idea that handing out foreign aid was a competitive activity with you keeping score. In fact Iran has given relief to other places hit by disasters, including the 2004 Tsunami. As for Africa, your suggestion is quite ridiculous, considering the economic condition of most African nations.
Click to expand...
 
D

dumpthemonarchy

House Member
Jan 18, 2005
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Tonington said:
Do you think they would farm for subsistence only, if they had the option to farm more?
Click to expand...

Yes they will stay subsustence farmers, completely, This is what us modern, efficient, progressive westerners don't understand about pre-modern, pre-industrial cultures which still exist in the world and in Canada on aboriginal reserves and those who feel eternally entitled to welfare. These people are traditional, they are not interested in adapting to the modern world and will resist doing so as long as they can. In a country like India, the caste system is all about avoiding dirty work, avoiding any kind of physical labour jobs because such jobs lack status.

petros said:
Canada can't feed it's self, why would Egypt or any other tiny ittle place be able to if we can't?
Click to expand...

Canada grows more than enough bread and apples to feed everyone, not to mention livestock. We are productive enough to trade and get a variety of foods so our food prices are stable and our diet is healthy.

Egypt, as far as I understand, like many countries, have unproductive agricutlure, they do not have surpluses to sell to the world. What are they doing there about this? We don't here stories how Egyptian or African agriculture is moving into the modern age. We always get stories of woe, or how the USA or aid agencies must "manage" this situation. Which for the USA means a security or military solution. FAIL.
 
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