Obama urges future Palestinian state be based on '67 borders

ironsides

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The one thing I'm starting to see to help clarify the issue is that we need to differentiate between normal Palestinians and extremists (like Hamas, for instance). The current Palestinian PM appears to reject a lot of the extremism that the Hamas are peddling since Hamas won't accept a two-state solution. The Palestinian PM, by comparison, seems to simply want a fair and peaceful resolution and accepts the two-state solution.

I am sure the average Palestinian person would like this all to go away also. Nothing like a 500 LB bomb (land or aerial) going off within 1/2 mile of you to get your attention and destroy a good nights sleep. There are pot stirrers on both sides, but I'm pretty sure Israel could control their far better than Hamas has done. Wonder just how much power the current Palestinian PM could wield if he really tried?
 

#juan

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Every Zionist from David Ben Gurion to Netenyahoo have sworn to rid the area of Palestinians; Have sworn that they would except nothing less than all of Palestine. They will do this with the continuing arms and help from the U.S. like they've had since 1948.
 

ironsides

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Old men spouting off, and they had a reason to say it at the time, I have not heard of Israel trying to destroy or exterminate the Palestinians lately, they just want to be left alone by them. Palestinians started the conflict in the first place(other than the League of Nations and Great Briton).
 

mentalfloss

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Jun 28, 2010
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And where is most of the problem?

Right. Well, that's within the pre-1967 borders, so Israelis would avoid conflict by simply staying out of Gaza, isn't it?

There are pot stirrers on both sides, but I'm pretty sure Israel could control their far better than Hamas has done. Wonder just how much power the current Palestinian PM could wield if he really tried?

If you look at the death stats, it appears that Palestinians are actually controlling their ability to 'stir the pot' much better than Israelis.

Year | Palestinian Deaths | Israeli Deaths
2010 | 81 (9) | 8 (0)
2009 | 1034 (314) | 9 (1)
2008 | 887 (12) | 35 (4)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_palestinian_conflict
 

CDNBear

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Sep 24, 2006
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Right. Well, that's within the pre-1967 borders, so Israelis would avoid conflict by simply staying out of Gaza, isn't it?
Israel withdrew from Gaza. In fact, the IDF had to forcibly remove Jewish settlers, from their entrenched homesteads.
 

mentalfloss

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Jun 28, 2010
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Israel withdrew from Gaza. In fact, the IDF had to forcibly remove Jewish settlers, from their entrenched homesteads.

Hmm.. I have to get a look at the map again to see what's being disputed.. I'll be back but will leave this for now.

Thank you for the humility and civil discourse.
 

CUBert

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As soon as you back and answer at minimum, a dozen unanswered questions, and supply proof for at minimum 20+ claims you've never supported.

When you do that, I'll actually do more than just cause you to have melt downs.


Shocker, he can't back his claims up.
 

Colpy

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You're human garbage, Palestinians are a conquered and oppressed peoples but you're ok with that.

Gee Whiz! What a shame the Arabs keep attacking Israel.....forcing them to defend themselves rather than march into the ovens in orderly rows........

The Palestinians are oppressed by Hamas and their Arab "brothers" much more than by Israel...........

Just compare the plight of the 750,000 Jews evicted from Arab nations in 1948 to the Palestinian problem....

I think maybe Me and some buddies will come and conquest your house then. You won't mind if we keep it too! Thanks

Good luck with that! You'll wind up looking like the Egyptian Air Force on June 11, 1967...... :)
 

CUBert

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Gee Whiz! What a shame the Arabs keep attacking Israel.....forcing them to defend themselves rather than march into the ovens in orderly rows........

Damn those stupid Arabs for waiting their homeland back!

The Palestinians are oppressed by Hamas and their Arab "brothers" much more than by Israel...........

Blatantly false. For one thing, Hamas isn't blockading off the citizens and choosing what goes in and out of Gaza and severely limiting rations .

Just compare the plight of the 750,000 Jews evicted from Arab nations in 1948 to the Palestinian problem....

No jewish plight exists anymore. Jews couldn't have a better life, it's a Palestinian plight now.


Good luck with that! You'll wind up looking like the Egyptian Air Force on June 11, 1967...... :)

I'm not surprised his point went over your head.
 

Colpy

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Damn those stupid Arabs for waiting their homeland back!
.

Damn those Jews for wanting a save place to live..........after 2,000 years of REAL genocidal attacks in Europe. The Arabs have VAST homeland.........but only one-half of one percent of them live free......the ones that live in israel (as Netanyahu pointed out) And they would have even more homeland.....if they quit attacking Israel.

CUBert;1432747 For one thing, Hamas isn't blockading off the citizens and choosing what goes in and out of Gaza and severely limiting rations .

As I keep pointing out, Gaza has one of the highest birth rates on earth, and a life expectancy much longer than the world average, in fact longer than most Arab nations. Rations are not severely limited anywhere but in your delusional opinion.


No jewish plight exists anymore. Jews couldn't have a better life, it's a Palestinian plight now.

Uh huh. Hundreds upon hundreds of yearrs of persecution in Europe does not disapate in a lifetime. The Jewish plight ended because Israel exists.....and one-third of the Jews on earth were murdered. Dead or in Israel.........their plight is no more.

The Arabs need to step up to the plate and really help their Muslim "brothers".....instead of viciously using them as a pawn against Israel



I'm not surprised his point went over your head

It didn't. Like Israel, nobody attacks me with impunity.
 

CUBert

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Damn those Jews for wanting a save place to live..........after 2,000 years of REAL genocidal attacks in Europe. The Arabs have VAST homeland.........but only one-half of one percent of them live free......the ones that live in israel (as Netanyahu pointed out) And they would have even more homeland.....if they quit attacking Israel.

They have a safe place to live, nearly every place in the world will accept jews. Zionist idiots like Israeli supporters is the only thing fueling anti-jewish hatred among Arabs nowadays.
How do jews figure to live safely by booting out Palestinians from their homes?


As I keep pointing out, Gaza has one of the highest birth rates on earth, and a life expectancy much longer than the world average, in fact longer than most Arab nations. Rations are not severely limited anywhere but in your delusional opinion.


Gaza rations food as Israel cuts supplies | World news | The Guardian
Gaza conference: survival rations will not rebuild Gaza | Oxfam NZ


You're trying to deny the undeniable. Basic logic tells you when a region of 450,000 people have a strict embargo placed on them and have all areas of crossing closed down, no good will come from it. The obvious being food shortages.

Uh huh. Hundreds upon hundreds of yearrs of persecution in Europe does not disapate in a lifetime.

Jews are living proof that it can dissipate in a lifetime.
Stop pretending antisemitism is still rampant, that myth has already been dispelled.
 

mentalfloss

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Jun 28, 2010
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On Israel, Harper stands alone at G8 summit


Alone among G8 leaders, the Canadian Prime Minister refuses to embrace the U.S. President’s plan to begin peace negotiations between Palestinians and Israelis on the basis of a return to Israel’s de facto borders as they existed before its 1967 war with neighbouring Arab countries – a precondition, accepted by Arabs and by many previous Israeli leaders and Canadian governments, that would be necessary to get Palestinians back to the table.

Mr. Harper made his opposition to that position clear through a spokesperson shortly after Mr. Obama’s Middle East speech last week in a pre-G8 briefing, making him the lone leader in the G8 not to back the U.S. preconditions.

There was some sense that Canada is putting an obstacle in the way of this goal. “Mr. Harper clearly is the odd man out on this one, and it won’t do him any favours,” a British official involved with the G8 conference said.

Indeed, the summit opened Wednesday after a day of meetings between Mr. Obama and Britain’s Conservative Prime Minister David Cameron in which the two leaders made a bold show of having brought together their positions on Israel, the Palestinians and the Arab revolutions.

Mr. Cameron has generally been much tougher in his criticisms of Israel and more hawkish in his support of Arab revolutions than his U.S. counterpart, but Mr. Obama said they had “turned a corner” and built a common front. Mr. Cameron, standing beside the U.S. President, called his speech “bold” and “visionary.”

Canada has not been included in such initiatives because of Mr. Harper’s positions.


On Israel, Harper stands alone at G8 summit - The Globe and Mail
 

PoliticalNick

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Mar 8, 2011
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So I just found this book that is now part of my religion and it says all the British Isles are my homeland along with the states of Florida and, Georgia and some huge chunks of Texas. It says they have been my homelands for 5000 years. It is a religious book so I am thinking the western world should start sending me a few billion in aid and a few billion in arms every year and help me displace everyone in those areas by force.

Does this sound reasonable to all of you? This is basically the same as supporting Israel so it should.
 

ironsides

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Feb 13, 2009
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Right. Well, that's within the pre-1967 borders, so Israelis would avoid conflict by simply staying out of Gaza, isn't it?



If you look at the death stats, it appears that Palestinians are actually controlling their ability to 'stir the pot' much better than Israelis.

Year | Palestinian Deaths | Israeli Deaths
2010 | 81 (9) | 8 (0)
2009 | 1034 (314) | 9 (1)
2008 | 887 (12) | 35 (4)

Israeli?Palestinian conflict - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
That only shows that the Israeli's came out of fire fights better than Hamas, their better training shows. By controlling their hotheads, I meant stopping them from shooting rockets or taking shots at each other. Hamas got what they deserved in their random attacks against Israeli civilian populations, and no doubt some Israeli's were killed and injured retaliating against them.

Big question would be can Hamas live,peaceably along side Israel if the whole Gaza was given back to them? I doubt it based upon their past.

So I just found this book that is now part of my religion and it says all the British Isles are my homeland along with the states of Florida and, Georgia and some huge chunks of Texas. It says they have been my homelands for 5000 years. It is a religious book so I am thinking the western world should start sending me a few billion in aid and a few billion in arms every year and help me displace everyone in those areas by force.

Does this sound reasonable to all of you? This is basically the same as supporting Israel so it should.

I as a native now living there would drive you out so fast your head would spin, you never would get a foothold, although I would give you the British Isles. Your analogy is not even close. There would be very little or no problem if the old PLO and Hamas had not gone on this campaign to drive the Jews into the sea. The Jews tried living in other lands, and look what happened, everyone became jealous of they successes and drove them out. Why is it that surrounding countries do not want to give the Palestinians sanctuary, Jordan was originally a Palestinian state, they drove them out and are keeping them out.
 

MHz

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If nothing else you will always be able to work as a sidewalk since you lie like one.

That only shows that the Israeli's came out of fire fights better than Hamas, their better training shows. By controlling their hotheads, I meant stopping them from shooting rockets or taking shots at each other. Hamas got what they deserved in their random attacks against Israeli civilian populations, and no doubt some Israeli's were killed and injured retaliating against them.
Israel practiced bombing runways for 2 years before they bombed the real ones, the 'war' started as soon as they had it perfected. Better trained, obviously since coloring books and crayons are considered weapons and therefore banned. You have noticed the headlines of today, Egypt's crossing is going to be opened permanently on the 28th. If the Israeli PM is in his typical double-speak then that will be used as a 'concession' along with the offshore port he proposed a month or so ago. Their concessions would be easing the blockades (from the sea) which is really no concession anyway as Gaza should have those right anyway and they still should be at the UN challenging the existance of UN 181 and UN273 as legal and binding documents.

Big question would be can Hamas live,peaceably along side Israel if the whole Gaza was given back to them? I doubt it based upon their past.
Their past sprang from 20 years of military occupation, let's see how they are after being in International Court for 20 years. Realkistically you do want them to honor what they sign do you not. That would be in stark contrast to Israel signing UN 273.

There would be very little or no problem if the old PLO and Hamas had not gone on this campaign to drive the Jews into the sea. The Jews tried living in other lands, and look what happened, everyone became jealous of they successes and drove them out. Why is it that surrounding countries do not want to give the Palestinians sanctuary, Jordan was originally a Palestinian state, they drove them out and are keeping them out.
These are the lies I mentioned, Hamas is trying to get Israel declared an 'illegal action' by the 33 Nations that voted for it's creation. The basis was the creation was a desire of the Rothschild family, their descendents were the ones who got the Jews expelled fro England for 350 years, that is who they should be looking at as being the source of their persecution in the far past.
Considering Israel's '67 war was an act of aggression by Israel in a pre-emptive strike against 3 (UN) Nations and the world did nothing but 'cheer' the 'illegal aggression' (Saddam did one Nation and look how that turned out for the aggressor). Under those circumstances how could any Nation support the people of Gaza or the West Bank or Jerusalem? That is also why funding from those Nations stopped, it would be going to Israel, if that theft could be eliminated the Nations that support those 3 places could easily dump $100B in those places, and the West would end up paying for it through a new OPEC tax.

The news in all that was the opening of the border. In Israel fashion that would mean 3 days and then a firecracker was tossed over the fence would mean Cast Lead 2,3,4 and 5 would be launched.
 

mentalfloss

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That only shows that the Israeli's came out of fire fights better than Hamas, their better training shows. By controlling their hotheads, I meant stopping them from shooting rockets or taking shots at each other. Hamas got what they deserved in their random attacks against Israeli civilian populations, and no doubt some Israeli's were killed and injured retaliating against them.

Well Israel's got a bunch of tanks and ****. It's easy to silence a few rocketeers when you blow up a building full of people.

Looking at the numbers the last couple of years, Israeli casualties barely hit double digits, so hopefully things are finally settling down.