Of course Quebec can separate...
- Thread starter CDNBear
- Start date
Because it affects ours too. Just to take an example, prior to the euro, any Frenchman going to Germany had to convert his currency to spend in Germany and vice versa. In fact, had he bought to many Deutschmarken and then wanted to buy back some Franks, or heck, even if he'd changed his mind and converted all of his money back, he'd still be left with less owing to the currency trader upselling, which would be fair enough. And even if some shop at the border accepted the neighbouring country's currency, it would certainly upsell it to compensate for the extra inconvenience. They don't do this as a charity you know.
We face all the same problems in trade between Canada and the US right now, and it's mutually harmful to both economies. clearly the same would apply to a Quebec currency. It would be mutually harmful. you seem to believe that somehow Quebec would suffer and we'd be unscathed by such a separation. I can guarantee both sides would suffer total separation, and that's why it would be in the interests of both parties to try to maintian at least some form of unity even after Quebec sovereignty, even if only as a matter of peronsal interest.
I never thought they did.
That depends on whose dollar is higher..
No, I seem to think I don't care. If they want their own country, they should have it, with all their own infrastructure.
I prefer the tough love way.
that's irrelevent in this case. Even if the Canadian dollar is stronger, it still doesn't change the fact that a US shop, even if it does accept Canadian dollars, would be accepting them at slightly below their real value. Likewise a Canadian shop accepting US dollars. Currency fluctuation is a separate matter. What we're talking about here is extra overhead, inconvenience, and in a middle man in the form of currency traders, essentially a make-work job in my opinion seeing that they don't actually make any productive contribution to the economy, as essential as they are in a multi-currency world.
You're talking street value. Not applicable, in the scenario you're trying to create with a sovereign Quebec. Where trade is affected by our dollar v whomever.
Again, totally irrational to be prepared to hurt Canada just so as to hurt Quebec.
Let's take the US-Canada relationship as an example. If the US really wanted to hurt Canada, it could easily do so via a trade war or some other kind of economic war. Canada would certainly suffer, and judging from our population compared to that of the US, possibly even 10 times more than the US would. Yet still, seeing that the US would suffer too, we could defend such an action on the part of the US strictly on emotionalism or sentimantality, a desire to hit us hard even if the US has to suffer too. It would be like the US poking its own eye out so as to poke two of ours out too. Stupid, really, seeing that ordinary Americans would suffer just to satisfy a politicians' blood lust.
The same applies here to Quebec. In any trade or other economic war between Canada and Queebc, certainly Quebec would likely suffer 4 times more than we would based on our population ratios, but it would still be stupid of us to shoot ourselves in the foot just to get at Quebec. Again, here you'd be reacting to pure emotion with little to no analytical thought put into it.
Who says I'm trying to hurt Quebec?
I've used tough love on my sons, does that mean I was trying to hurt them?
How is granting Quebec total freedom to form and direct their own currency irrational?
What do trade wars have to do with you trying to compare street level currency exchange to trade?
Hmmm... maybe there was a misunderstanding here. I thought you were saying that should Quebec decide to separate, that you would force Quebec to drop the Canadian currency. If that's not what you meant, then my apologies.
Now as for allowing Quebec to adopt its own currency, should it be stupid enough to do so,then no, it's not something worth fighting over. That said, seeing that Queebc would likely suffer far more than we would from a split in our currencies, we could bite the bullet much easier than Quebec could until it realises its folly and comes back to share a currency with us, assuming it doesn't have some other plan (adopt the US dollar, the euro, or some other shared currency?).
Should Quebec go that route, then for our own benefit, we'd probably want to look at our own currency base too, either by adopint the euro or preferably some kind of common North American currency ourselves.
Again, the cost of this would not be dramatic. A split currency would merely mean some inflation in the cost of Quebec imports to Canada and vice versa, but especially Canadian goods to Quebec. However, as with everything else, the poor pay the greatest price for such price hikes.
I was merely making the point that there is no point adopting a policy that would hurt us just to spite Quebec.
No force, it would be part of the deal, for them to separate without issue.
Likely the Euro.
Why? Our dollar has held its own quite well.
True, so they should think long and hard about the choices they make.
I still don't fully accept that a Quebec currency, independent of the Canadian dollar, would hurt Canada, as much as you think. Since Quebec already trades without much restriction from Ottawa. Would we even notice the difference?
I think it would be negligible. Off set by payments to their share of the national debt.
Although our policy regarding aid to welfare states, would likely force us to feed them. Their country won't contain much in the way of resources, and they'd be land locked as well.
If Qebec does go independent, there will be NO "Canadian" lands anywhere in Quebec. The new country would consists of all of the land currently in the Province of Quebec. You might not like it, but your opinion wouldn't matter at all. Quebec has the right to leave, as do all of the other provinces. They would have no claim to "Rupertsland", since it no longer exists, and hasn't existed since 1870. The lands of the former Rupertsland were divided up, and they would remain with the provinces that they are now a part of.
The rest of the stuff you claim to want to see would be negotiated.
Of course, this would directly lead to the total destruction of Canada within less than 50 years. The Atlantic Provinces are already restive, feel neglected by Canada, and they would peel off and join the USA fairly quickly.
Manitoba and Saskatchewan would be under even greater control by Ontario (the population would be so concentrated in Ontario, that its residents could override all of the other provinces combined), and they would also shortly decide to leave the Canadian confederation, and would likely become States.
That would leave Ontario, Nunavit, the Yukon and other NW Territories and British Columbia. B/C would not tolerate the almost complete domination of Ontario, and would most likely attempt to make it as a separate County (I predict that they would hold out for about 50-75 years, but their ever declining standard of living would either result in massive use of their natural resources (which would alienate much of their population), or they would have to eventually join the US.
That would essentially leave Ontario as a landlocked country, with right of passage up and down the St. Lawrence Seaway. It would be subject to the whims of Quebec, and would be almost totally dependent upon the US for its markets.
Yes indeed, let Quebec go. Then, see if I'm not right about what happens.
The rest of the stuff you claim to want to see would be negotiated.
Of course, this would directly lead to the total destruction of Canada within less than 50 years. The Atlantic Provinces are already restive, feel neglected by Canada, and they would peel off and join the USA fairly quickly.
Manitoba and Saskatchewan would be under even greater control by Ontario (the population would be so concentrated in Ontario, that its residents could override all of the other provinces combined), and they would also shortly decide to leave the Canadian confederation, and would likely become States.
That would leave Ontario, Nunavit, the Yukon and other NW Territories and British Columbia. B/C would not tolerate the almost complete domination of Ontario, and would most likely attempt to make it as a separate County (I predict that they would hold out for about 50-75 years, but their ever declining standard of living would either result in massive use of their natural resources (which would alienate much of their population), or they would have to eventually join the US.
That would essentially leave Ontario as a landlocked country, with right of passage up and down the St. Lawrence Seaway. It would be subject to the whims of Quebec, and would be almost totally dependent upon the US for its markets.
Yes indeed, let Quebec go. Then, see if I'm not right about what happens.
And of course the stuff you just negated can be negotiated too. Especially since the land wasn't HBC's to sell to Canada.
Hmmm, Lake Ontario, the St. Lawrence seaway, already under international control. Leaves Ontario landlocked how?
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Remember though that our population would suddenly shrink by about 1/4. I'm not saying it would be the end of the world, butit would weaken our currency at least somewhat.
Sometimes, Bear.....I don't know whether you are dead serious or just pulling our legs. 
This land, our land - Canadian's land - belongs to us as a whole - there is absolutely no way on earth that we should have to give our land up to anybody for any reason whatsoever. If there are people in our land who wish to separate then they may doing so by packing theirs bags and emigrating to whatever country is silly enough to take anyone who would be so stupid as to give up their home and native land for politics. IMMHO. :canada:
This land, our land - Canadian's land - belongs to us as a whole - there is absolutely no way on earth that we should have to give our land up to anybody for any reason whatsoever. If there are people in our land who wish to separate then they may doing so by packing theirs bags and emigrating to whatever country is silly enough to take anyone who would be so stupid as to give up their home and native land for politics. IMMHO. :canada:
But bad for inflation. If the concern is with prices being too high, then let's just do what Sweden does: introduce co-determination laws and remove any mandated minimum wage.
Well, not so simple as that. The Swedish government also invests much on education and job training programmes for the unemployed too. but that combination would ensure quality products at low cost.
half dozen of one, six of the other.Sometimes, Bear.....I don't know whether you are dead serious or just pulling our legs.
I sometimes just throw out ideas. I don't necessarily have a written in stone opinion on the matter, just an idea.
Then there's the whole duality of man thingy. I doubt I have a lock on the concept, but I know I have my own unique brand of understanding the two sides to myself. Some people call it hypocrisy, and I oft agree. Some understand where I'm coming from.
A simple example of this, would be the fact that I get very upset if I hit and kill an animal, with my car. Not for the damage to my car, but for the loss of life. While on the other hand, I can and do, take Deer, Turkey, Coyote, squirrels and gophers, with ease.
I can't argue with that. I fully understand where you are coming from.
Not always.
Ah, my intuition was right. :smile:
Good to know.
Rather like being your own 'devil's advocate'. I have also heard it referred to as 'the benefit of the doubt.'
One of the reasons I'm glad I live where I do is that it the lack of traffic on our roads out here gives me the chance to stop and swerve for critters without harming myself or others. I understand what you are saying.
Though I do not hunt, I do respect those who use the meat and are skilled enough to down the animal cleanly - and I am always thankful for a hand-out. :smile:
Thank you, Bear. I know I tend to wear the love I have for my country on my sleeve - my sister is always ribbing me about it - but I do love Canada, all of it with all of its wonderful people. Sure we have our differences - our divides - but we have shown and continue to show that we can put all that aside and if only for a moment in time, come together as Canadians.
Just attend any hockey game. LOL! ;-)