Security Council accepts No Fly Zone

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
44,168
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Sadly Canadians were caught up in the US led distraction in Iraq. That's why I read Amnesty International. I want to know what's really going on, rather than be led by propaganda from someone with an agenda to make themselves and their friends wealthy.

LOL. Ok. Blame others for YOUR lack of inaction.

Seriously... how could you possibly get caught up in something you were not involved in?


I don't support giving poor people money. I support making all basic necessities free and eliminating welfare checks and minimum wage. If someone earns money, they can spend it how they like.

Welcome to Conservatism. You're talking like a Tea Partier.

When children go to bed hungry at night, does it really make a difference where they are? You keep denying your country has a problem. The sad truth is, most countries have poverty. While the US is rich when measure on a per capita basis, most of the wealth is held by a few people at the top. Each year the club at the top get more exclusive as more and more people fall through the cracks into abject poverty.
Hunger in America: 2011 United States Hunger and Poverty Facts and Statistics

I don't deny my country has a problem. YOU are the one that got on your soap box saying you'd rather be poor in China than the US and I say that is absolute idiocy.

It is idiocy unless you truly want to feel REAL hunger and real poverty. If you TRULY want to experience the helplessness of poverty maybe China is the place for you.

However if you want to sit on your azz all day and watch TV and collect free everything from the many state and government agencies available to you then maybe the US is not bad at all.

People falling through the cracks... lol. It is a way of life for our poor in America. Their living is feeding off the public trough.
 

Dexter Sinister

Unspecified Specialist
Oct 1, 2004
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Regina, SK
Hopefully they will be grateful for our help.
Well, some people might be, but I wouldn't count on much good will coming out of the Arab world over this. It's a little annoying that no member of the League of Arab States, which asked for this in the first place, has seen fit to contribute anything. Four Qatari aircraft are supposedly joining the French tomorrow (I'll believe that when it happens) but now the head of the Arab League is saying, in effect, "Hey, that's not what we meant." They're going to spin this so that whatever happens, nothing sticks to them and they won't owe us anything. I think refusing the request for help would have been a mistake, that guarantees our place on the moral low ground, but having committed ourselves to helping, they're going to find fault with the nature and scope of our assistance. There was no way to come out of this smelling like a rose, I think the best we can do is avoid coming out of it smelling like a steaming pile of manure.
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
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I agree. But its also in our own self interests to get rid of Gadhafi.

It was also none of our business.


Which means we have become the Rebel's airforce.

Yes we have. That is exactly what we are.

I agree with the resolution. As long as no foreigners set foot in Libya, the Libyan will determine what happens when Gadhafi falls. Hopefully they will be grateful for our help.

The Libyan? Gadaffi is a Libyan and he was determining the outcome. Our Air Forces are now determining the outcome.

Well, some people might be, but I wouldn't count on much good will coming out of the Arab world over this. It's a little annoying that no member of the League of Arab States, which asked for this in the first place, has seen fit to contribute anything. Four Qatari aircraft are supposedly joining the French tomorrow (I'll believe that when it happens) but now the head of the Arab League is saying, in effect, "Hey, that's not what we meant."

I know... isn't that grand?



They're going to spin this so that whatever happens, nothing sticks to them and they won't owe us anything.

In total agreement.

I think refusing the request for help would have been a mistake, that guarantees our place on the moral low ground, but having committed ourselves to helping, they're going to find fault with the nature and scope of our assistance. There was no way to come out of this smelling like a rose, I think the best we can do is avoid coming out of it smelling like a steaming pile of manure.

We have to see this to the end which is Gadaffi's overhtrow. We've already taken sides.
 

JBeee

Time Out
Jun 1, 2007
1,826
52
48
CD is...or was a male?. Not sure how that works!![


QUOTE=Ariadne;1395909]Are you a girl?[/QUOTE]
 

PoliticalNick

The Troll Bashing Troll
Mar 8, 2011
7,940
0
36
Edson, AB
You are obviously ****ed in the head if you think a few missing textbooks are the equivalent of a few millions of people in the path of the vengeful army of a homicidal maniac.

Gadafhi wasn't out there with tanks and **** oppressing people before the uprising started. This is complete bull****. The rebels are no doubt funded, sponsored and incited by foreign governments who want an excuse to go in and claim the land where oil is cheapest to produce.

Some group of rebels starts a fake war for foreign governments and then its my job to pay to help them out...don't think so.

I guess since thats ok in Lybia then if me and some friends start an armed uprising in Canada we can count on the US and NATO to help us bomb Ottawa....I'm up for that.

There are many worse leaders in Africa doing much worse to the people than Gadfhi ever has...genocide taking place in Darfur, Somalia and Congo. Why not go into those countries first and stop real atrocities?? One word answer...OIL!
 

Corduroy

Senate Member
Feb 9, 2011
6,670
2
36
Vancouver, BC
Gadafhi wasn't out there with tanks and **** oppressing people before the uprising started. This is complete bull****. The rebels are no doubt funded, sponsored and incited by foreign governments who want an excuse to go in and claim the land where oil is cheapest to produce.

It's easy to doubt whether the rebels have been funded by foreign governments. For one, the claim was made without any evidence. Usually one needs to employ some skepticism when confronted with evidence. In this case there is no evidence so much more skepticism needs to be employed.
 

PoliticalNick

The Troll Bashing Troll
Mar 8, 2011
7,940
0
36
Edson, AB
It's easy to doubt whether the rebels have been funded by foreign governments. For one, the claim was made without any evidence. Usually one needs to employ some skepticism when confronted with evidence. In this case there is no evidence so much more skepticism needs to be employed.

It would be very hard to provide hard evidence at this point. The CIA and their counterparts don't advertise. We have to use judgement based on prior actions...the Contra's in Nicaragua, the Kurds in Iraq, the Taliban and Bin-ladens army when the USSR were in Afghanistan, Iraq when it was fighting Iran, the South Vietnamese...the list is endless and absolutely none of it was from compassion or worry about the people, it was all politically motivated for reasons other than what was initially stated.

The west has a long history of helping anyone to further their own political agenda and then tossing them aside or turning on them when they no longer serve a useful purpose.

I could be wrong but I try to learn from history.
 

Kreskin

Doctor of Thinkology
Feb 23, 2006
21,155
149
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The part of the story not adding up right now is that of the downed fighter jet. The official story appears to claim it as belonging to the "rebels". And every media anchor tells it without batting an eye or questioning what exactly that means. That's a little more than homegrown if teenagers are getting their hands on armed jet fighters and flying them. I would like to hear the real story about it.

YouTube - Libya plane crash rebels 19/03/2011
 

Corduroy

Senate Member
Feb 9, 2011
6,670
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Vancouver, BC
It would be very hard to provide hard evidence at this point.

Is there any soft evidence? Anecdotal? Conjecture? Hearsay? All you got is a cherry picked historical precedent. The West has funded rebel groups in the past, some of them shady, but there are plenty of examples of rebel groups not funded by the West. You've picked incidents that support your point and ignored those that don't.

You say there is no doubt that the West is funding this group and yet all your basing it on is your imagination.
 

Dexter Sinister

Unspecified Specialist
Oct 1, 2004
10,168
539
113
Regina, SK
I don't know what the real story of that downed fighter plane is, and I don't know the source of the story either, but I seriously doubt an inexperienced teenager could get one of those planes off the ground safely, pilots train for years before they're allowed control of hardware like that. Those things are not easy to fly. But I'm sure you can't believe anything the Libyan media say.
 

Corduroy

Senate Member
Feb 9, 2011
6,670
2
36
Vancouver, BC
It's hard to take anyone seriously here when they start quoting the Libyan media as a reliable source. A media outlet dedicated to bull**** confirming your anti-Western bias is no excuse to throw intellectually integrity out the window. Besides, you aren't using any evidence to manically shout that it's all about oil, why hurt your argument by citing an unreliable source? Just gives the opposition more ammunition.
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
21,887
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Gadafhi wasn't out there with tanks and **** oppressing people before the uprising started. This is complete bull****. The rebels are no doubt funded, sponsored and incited by foreign governments who want an excuse to go in and claim the land where oil is cheapest to produce.

Some group of rebels starts a fake war for foreign governments and then its my job to pay to help them out...don't think so.

I guess since thats ok in Lybia then if me and some friends start an armed uprising in Canada we can count on the US and NATO to help us bomb Ottawa....I'm up for that.

There are many worse leaders in Africa doing much worse to the people than Gadfhi ever has...genocide taking place in Darfur, Somalia and Congo. Why not go into those countries first and stop real atrocities?? One word answer...OIL!

Yep.

When you have nothing to support your argument, just start pulling stuff out of your arse at random.

(insert rolled eyes here)
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
207
63
Ontario
You say there is no doubt that the West is funding this group and yet all your basing it on is your imagination.

Yep.

When you have nothing to support your argument, just start pulling stuff out of your arse at random.

(insert rolled eyes here)

Are either of you surprised by how these conversations end up?

You're dealing with the unethical, morally bankrupt left fringe.

Moral relativism flows from their mouths/asses (Since they're interchangeable parts), like so much shyte.

Ask a question you know the answer to, will deflate their silly agenda, and the question will go unanswered. Fail to answer one of their questions, and you've lost the debate.

Post something that tears their silly notions into so much confetti, and it's from a propaganda source for the great Satan or the Joos. Until that same source has something that they can use to support their position.

You speak of facts? What do facts have to do with anything, when anecdotal stories, third hand accounts and pure fiction, are enough to brand the whole of Israel or the US as the demon?

Evidence? That's the stuff they demand when their cause du jour is under the microscope. But I'll be damned if they could come up with any hard evidence to support their silyl claims, when asked to.

Critical thought, even simple linear thought, is as foreign to these people as the taste of a moon rock. If they ever actually had a moment of clarity, and tried either, they would likely suffer a fatal aneurysm. Putting that much stress on such an under developed and limited cluster of brain cells, could only result in such an outcome.

These people aren't here to debate, discuss or even argue. They're here to preach.

If you think their opinions on this story are out to lunch, just try discussing freedom of speech with them. Now that's a hoot and a half.
 
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captain morgan

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 28, 2009
28,429
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A Mouse Once Bit My Sister
There are many worse leaders in Africa doing much worse to the people than Gadfhi ever has...genocide taking place in Darfur, Somalia and Congo. Why not go into those countries first and stop real atrocities?? One word answer...OIL!


What's stopping you from getting off your fat ass and doing something about Darfur, Somalia and the Congo...... One word answer... Hypocrite!
 

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
8,583
60
48
United States
In 2003:

1) The Iraqi people weren't trying to overthrow their dictator

2) Iraq's worst Human rights problem was malnutrition and disease imposed on Iraq until they gave up their WMD stockpiles. Since Iraq didn't have any WMDs, those sanctions should have been lifted. Blocking food from entering a country in order to starve the general population is unlikely to win hearts and minds...

What are you referring to? 3) A genocidal civil war was taking place which had killed 3 million people in the previous 5 years. It involved child soldiers, rape (forced prostitution), ethnic cleansing, massacres and cannibalism... but it wasn't in Iraq.


They would like to today. But are shot or locked up as soon as they try anything. about changing the government.
"A genocidal civil war was taking place which had killed 3 million people in the previous 5 years. It involved child soldiers, rape (forced prostitution), ethnic cleansing, massacres and cannibalism... but it wasn't in Iraq."
No, it was in Yemen and the Sudan. What does all this have to do with Libya? Non of what you stated was happening there either.


SANAA, Yemen – Three Yemeni army commanders, including a top general, defected Monday to the opposition calling for an end to President Ali Abdullah Saleh's rule, as army tanks and armored vehicles deployed in support of thousands protesting in the capital.
With the defection, it appeared Saleh's support was eroding from every power base in the nation — his own tribe called on him to step down, he fired his entire Cabinet ahead of what one government official said was a planned mass resignation, and his ambassador to the U.N. and human rights minister quit.
Rival tanks deploy in streets of Yemen's capital - Yahoo! News
 

Cannuck

Time Out
Feb 2, 2006
30,245
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48
Alberta
Gadafhi wasn't out there with tanks and **** oppressing people before the uprising started. This is complete bull****. The rebels are no doubt funded, sponsored and incited by foreign governments who want an excuse to go in and claim the land where oil is cheapest to produce.

Some group of rebels starts a fake war for foreign governments and then its my job to pay to help them out...don't think so.

I guess since thats ok in Lybia then if me and some friends start an armed uprising in Canada we can count on the US and NATO to help us bomb Ottawa....I'm up for that.

There are many worse leaders in Africa doing much worse to the people than Gadfhi ever has...genocide taking place in Darfur, Somalia and Congo. Why not go into those countries first and stop real atrocities?? One word answer...OIL!

Freedom House: Freedom House Reveals the World's Worst Human Rights Abusers

"Nine countries and one territory are judged to have the worst human rights conditions, receiving the lowest possible score of 7 (based on a 1 to 7 scale, with 1 representing the most free and 7 representing the least free) on both political rights and civil liberties: Burma, Equatorial Guinea, Eritrea, Libya, North Korea, Somalia, Sudan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan and Tibet"

The funny thing for me is the whole Libya on the UN human rights panel thing. It's one of the reason I don't care what the international community thinks. Act unilaterally if need be.
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
44,168
96
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USA
Interesting how this "medical condition" is only present in Western nations with an overly comprehensive social safety net.

Agreed. The Gopher has a point about putting on weight eating the wrong food but a good portion of our Poor Obese Population are tipping the scales at 200 Lbs or greater. That is simply gorging and no exercise.

I always bring this up and I shall again. A few years back they were showing NFL Players passing out Thanksgiving turkeys to our "poor and under priveledged" people. The people recieving turkeys were the fattest bunch of people I've ever seen gathered in one room. They were tipping the scales at 300 Lbs easily. Heck they weren't even waiting in line. The football players were dropping turkeys on their laps.