More propaganda from another scaremonger
Too bad the poll had no mention of having to pay more for the power, but then again, they didn't want to publish those results.
AGW Denial, The Greatest Scam in History?
- Thread starter Avro
- Start date
More propaganda from another scaremonger
Too bad the poll had no mention of having to pay more for the power, but then again, they didn't want to publish those results.
Yep, hard to argue that point, the green movement have been their own worst enemy.
Sad to say but it has to do with that whole 'money talks' thing.
Bottom line, the public has demonstrated their fickleness towards the whole issue... Give 'em a reason such as lower bills and a more cost effective alternative and you'll have everyone on board.
Bottom line, the public has demonstrated their fickleness towards the whole issue... Give 'em a reason such as lower bills and a more cost effective alternative and you'll have everyone on board.
Yep, we could start by ending subsidies to dirty energy and giving reen tech more or at the very least an equal amount.
How to Cherry Pick
YouTube - Climate Denial Crock of the Week - How to Pick a Cherry
Harrison Schmitt is a former Apollo astronaut, and far right wingnut. This makes him a perfect tool for the climate denial industry.
Skeptical Science explains:
I
n 2009, former astronaut Harrison Schmitt submitted a white paper to NASA, Observations Necessary for Useful Global Climate Models. In this paper, Schmitt crams in an impressive number of skeptic arguments – including the argument that we’re currently experiencing cooling:
Figure 1: Arctic sea ice extent in April 1989 and April 2009 (NSIDC).
Is this giving you the full picture? There’s a lot more to the story than two cherry-picked months. Over the last few decades, Arctic sea ice has shown a steady decline, particularly in summer months when sea ice extent is at a minimum.
Figure 2: Arctic sea ice extent (light blue is monthly and dark blue is the yearly average) from 1978 to 2010 (NSIDC).
Of course sea ice extent only tells you what’s happening on the surface. More importantly, Arctic sea ice has been steadily thinning over the last few decades so the total amount of sea ice is declining. Satellites find that Arctic sea ice was thinning, even in 2008 and 2009 when sea ice extent showed a slight recovery from the 2007 minimum (Giles 2008, Kwok 2009). The total volume of Arctic Sea ice through 2008 and 2009 were the lowest on record (Maslowski 2010,Tschudi 2010).
Figure 3: Continuously updated Arctic Sea Ice Volume Anomaly (Polar Ice Center).
To claim Arctic sea ice has recovered in recent years is false. It fails to take into account the overall declining trend in Arctic sea ice extent and more importantly, the fact that the total amount of Arctic sea ice in recent years have been the lowest on record.
Schmitt’s recent appointment by an anti-science Republican to a high post in the New Mexico state government has added a twist to the story. For more, see here:
Desmog Blog
Prof Mandia
NOAA Arctic Report Card
The Carbon Brief
HuffingtonPost
YouTube - Climate Denial Crock of the Week - How to Pick a Cherry
Harrison Schmitt is a former Apollo astronaut, and far right wingnut. This makes him a perfect tool for the climate denial industry.
Skeptical Science explains:
n 2009, former astronaut Harrison Schmitt submitted a white paper to NASA, Observations Necessary for Useful Global Climate Models. In this paper, Schmitt crams in an impressive number of skeptic arguments – including the argument that we’re currently experiencing cooling:
“How long this cooling trend will persist remains to be seen; however, Greenland glaciers have been advancing since 2006, Artic [sic] sea ice has returned to 1989 levels of coverage, and snowy, cold winters and cool summers have dominated northern North America and Europe”
I’m having trouble getting past the brazenness of using Greenland as evidence of cooling, considering over the last few years, Greenland has been losing over 200 billion tonnes of ice per year. But for now, let’s look at Schmitt’s argument that Arctic (we’ll spell it correctly) sea ice had recovered in 2009. Over 1989, the average sea ice extent was 12.14 million square kilometres. In 2009, the average sea ice extent had fallen to 11.18 million square kilometres. Sea ice coverage was nearly 1 million square kilometres greater in 1989 compared to 2009. How can Schmitt claim sea ice returned to 1989 levels? The Heartland Institute leapt to his defence:
“In fact, National Snow and Ice Data Center records show conclusively that in April 2009, Arctic sea ice extent had indeed returned to and surpassed 1989 levels.”
So they’re comparing one month in 1989 to another month in 2009. Of all the measurements and data available, what they’re looking at is this:
Figure 1: Arctic sea ice extent in April 1989 and April 2009 (NSIDC).
Is this giving you the full picture? There’s a lot more to the story than two cherry-picked months. Over the last few decades, Arctic sea ice has shown a steady decline, particularly in summer months when sea ice extent is at a minimum.
Figure 2: Arctic sea ice extent (light blue is monthly and dark blue is the yearly average) from 1978 to 2010 (NSIDC).
Of course sea ice extent only tells you what’s happening on the surface. More importantly, Arctic sea ice has been steadily thinning over the last few decades so the total amount of sea ice is declining. Satellites find that Arctic sea ice was thinning, even in 2008 and 2009 when sea ice extent showed a slight recovery from the 2007 minimum (Giles 2008, Kwok 2009). The total volume of Arctic Sea ice through 2008 and 2009 were the lowest on record (Maslowski 2010,Tschudi 2010).
Figure 3: Continuously updated Arctic Sea Ice Volume Anomaly (Polar Ice Center).
To claim Arctic sea ice has recovered in recent years is false. It fails to take into account the overall declining trend in Arctic sea ice extent and more importantly, the fact that the total amount of Arctic sea ice in recent years have been the lowest on record.
Desmog Blog
Prof Mandia
NOAA Arctic Report Card
The Carbon Brief
HuffingtonPost
2011 Almanach pt.1
January: The Canadian Journal of Earth Sciences debuts publishing climate change denial with a contribution by Greg Loehle and Fred Singer.
February: The Friends of Science, Calgary’s notorious spin doctors, stop asking their website visitors to listen to their new radio ads as November 2009 is long gone, while ignoring another La Nina in their 10 year climate trend. An anonymous liberal drops off a bucket of Kentucky Fried Chicken at the Friends of Science’s headquarters. Two friends die from stroke, three more from heart attacks. Only one survives.
March: Lord Monckton is caught in flagranti in an airport washroom with National Post correspondent Lorne Gunter. Both gentlemen deny the accusations and win the debate with the police officers. They decide to run their own blog called The Climate Scum. Denial Depot has its annual spring sale: Lord Monckton acquires a new tea cosy and Dr. Roy Spencer another doctorate. Steffi McImtiresome and Rose McKritik come finally out as a bunch of dykes. Not good in an ultraconservative environment. Keith Briffa starts dating the rings around Uranus and Raymond Pierrehumbert answers his first email from FoGT.
April: The Friends of Science and the Friends of Gin and Tonic merge on 1st April. New name: Friends of Gin and Tonic Science. Joe Bast of the Heartland Institute is diagnosed with lung cancer from second hand smoking but ignores it. Fred Singer, emeritus at the University of Tobacco Virginia, receives money from the Marlboro cowboy to second the denial. Dr. Dr. Roy Spencer receives another honorary doctorate from the University of Waikiki and calls himself Dr. Dr. Dr. Roy Spencer.
May: Leonardo DiCaprio publishes his first book ‘Climate covered up’. “An imperative read for a successful future” comments Desmoblog’s own James Hoggan. Tit for tat. John Cook of Skeptical Science is getting really mad, so mad that he refers to climate change deniers as ‘climate change deniers’. A spade is a spade after all, John. The Heartland institute put on their 5th international conference on climate change denial following their highly successful 4th meeting on Science Alarmism. This year’s topic is ‘Battle of the Think Tanks’. As a result, the Germans lose 2000 think tanks and the Russians 3000.
June: Joe Bast dies from lung cancer but ignores it. Fred Singer dies of old age and seconds the denial. The annual meeting of the Friends of Science has to be cancelled owing to an acute adult diaper shortage in Calgary. The re-recalculation of global cooling of New Zealand since 1909 results in the commercial breakup of the country. Individual pieces are being used in Dr. Scholl’s Freeze Away Wart Remover. Dr. Dr. Dr. Roy Spencer sues Dr. Scholl and acquires the Dr. from the latter. Jim Hansen retires and adapts his former name Hans Jimsen. Santer moves to the North Pole for longer term research and sends greetings.
To be continued...
January: The Canadian Journal of Earth Sciences debuts publishing climate change denial with a contribution by Greg Loehle and Fred Singer.
February: The Friends of Science, Calgary’s notorious spin doctors, stop asking their website visitors to listen to their new radio ads as November 2009 is long gone, while ignoring another La Nina in their 10 year climate trend. An anonymous liberal drops off a bucket of Kentucky Fried Chicken at the Friends of Science’s headquarters. Two friends die from stroke, three more from heart attacks. Only one survives.
March: Lord Monckton is caught in flagranti in an airport washroom with National Post correspondent Lorne Gunter. Both gentlemen deny the accusations and win the debate with the police officers. They decide to run their own blog called The Climate Scum. Denial Depot has its annual spring sale: Lord Monckton acquires a new tea cosy and Dr. Roy Spencer another doctorate. Steffi McImtiresome and Rose McKritik come finally out as a bunch of dykes. Not good in an ultraconservative environment. Keith Briffa starts dating the rings around Uranus and Raymond Pierrehumbert answers his first email from FoGT.
April: The Friends of Science and the Friends of Gin and Tonic merge on 1st April. New name: Friends of Gin and Tonic Science. Joe Bast of the Heartland Institute is diagnosed with lung cancer from second hand smoking but ignores it. Fred Singer, emeritus at the University of Tobacco Virginia, receives money from the Marlboro cowboy to second the denial. Dr. Dr. Roy Spencer receives another honorary doctorate from the University of Waikiki and calls himself Dr. Dr. Dr. Roy Spencer.
May: Leonardo DiCaprio publishes his first book ‘Climate covered up’. “An imperative read for a successful future” comments Desmoblog’s own James Hoggan. Tit for tat. John Cook of Skeptical Science is getting really mad, so mad that he refers to climate change deniers as ‘climate change deniers’. A spade is a spade after all, John. The Heartland institute put on their 5th international conference on climate change denial following their highly successful 4th meeting on Science Alarmism. This year’s topic is ‘Battle of the Think Tanks’. As a result, the Germans lose 2000 think tanks and the Russians 3000.
June: Joe Bast dies from lung cancer but ignores it. Fred Singer dies of old age and seconds the denial. The annual meeting of the Friends of Science has to be cancelled owing to an acute adult diaper shortage in Calgary. The re-recalculation of global cooling of New Zealand since 1909 results in the commercial breakup of the country. Individual pieces are being used in Dr. Scholl’s Freeze Away Wart Remover. Dr. Dr. Dr. Roy Spencer sues Dr. Scholl and acquires the Dr. from the latter. Jim Hansen retires and adapts his former name Hans Jimsen. Santer moves to the North Pole for longer term research and sends greetings.
To be continued...
E pluribus unum
The declaration of independence from the historic Lisbon Conference:
Judith Curry deserves to become known as the Founding Mother of the United Skeptics of Alarmism. For a while, her shefooled the red-coat alarmist occupiers of the consensus that her offer of a parlay was an attempt to negotiate a cease-fire between the two sides. Instead it was a ruse de guerre that rallied the yeomen of the oppressed colonies, bringing together lukewarmers, magical thinkers, iron-sun theorists, ocean-oscillation promoters, photographers of tarmac and air-conditioning vents, venal billionaires, curmudgeons, principle-component-analysis obsessives, high-discount-rate advocates and one-world-government paranoids into a More Perfect Union.
The irresistible synergy of these diverse strands of thought, woven into the rich tapestry of skepticism, is ably summarized in the following diagram:
The declaration of independence from the historic Lisbon Conference:
Judith Curry deserves to become known as the Founding Mother of the United Skeptics of Alarmism. For a while, her shefooled the red-coat alarmist occupiers of the consensus that her offer of a parlay was an attempt to negotiate a cease-fire between the two sides. Instead it was a ruse de guerre that rallied the yeomen of the oppressed colonies, bringing together lukewarmers, magical thinkers, iron-sun theorists, ocean-oscillation promoters, photographers of tarmac and air-conditioning vents, venal billionaires, curmudgeons, principle-component-analysis obsessives, high-discount-rate advocates and one-world-government paranoids into a More Perfect Union.
The irresistible synergy of these diverse strands of thought, woven into the rich tapestry of skepticism, is ably summarized in the following diagram:
I guess that you didn't get the message re: green tech actually providing something cost effective.
On the subsidy issue, there is an easy way to eliminate the oil/gas tax incentives...
No, I understood what you said and to some degree agreed with you.
I fully expect green solutions will be more cost effective once they become more mainstream and when people realise they can lower costs right at home.
This is a long road.
There's gotta be some pain involved with the gain... Green tech needs to evolve into the next generation AND appeal to the masses (or at least a portion thereof)... Forcing one option through artificially rejigging the market will create unrealistic and unsustainable expectations within the consuming public. Essentially, that is what the gvt programs are doing at present to the detriment of the consumer.
I think using the market is a great way to implement change, it is a powerful tool.
It is already happening to the dismay and lobbying of dirty energy.
The reality is that dirty energy is getting more and more expensive and when you can generate power from wind for about 4 cents per kilowatt hour it already has an edge in cost.....the market will sort it out.
Solar is another area where costs could go down if fools gold paste can be used.
Nukes are another area where technology has made them safe, small and less costly than a few decades ago.
Power from waves and dams.
Efficiencies in dirty power.
Homes that are built better.
Urban agro.
Less centralized work places.
Better transit.
etc etc etc.
It's not a matter if, it's a matter of when.
I believe in mankind's ability to adapt, invent and move forward.
Green lobbies are looking to manipulate the market on a basis that makes their uncompetitive tech sustainable, that's not 'using' the markets; that is a destruction of the market.
There ain't no power when the wind don't blow
Agreed.. Why isn't it happening?
That ought to get you in all kinds of hot water with the eco/Suzuki crowd.
You need a reasonable amount of land to grow any meaningful quantities. Factor-in the labour cost (sweat equity) and one can easily make the argument that you are better off to work those extra hours and get the cash.
Here's the 411 for ya... The "when" occurs when the green tech gets it's sh*t together and brings something valuable and competitive to the table.
"Necessity is the mother of all invention"; what you are proposing is that the manipulation of the markets and artificial support of inefficiencies is the end-all-be-all. That is the road to economic suicide.
Pretty much. It's only so long that oil companies continue to rape people at the pump before we all start replacing our autos with cheaper, cleaner alternatives. In 20 years, when gas hits $3/litre and we'll probably be seeing a significant shift to renewable resources for our transportation needs.
YouTube - Harrison Schmidt: Tea Party on the Moon
If you care about your children’s future, if you believe other species have a right to exist, if you believe that clean air, clean water, and a livable planet are the minimum that we can pass along to our heirs, then you are now, and have always been, a communist.
That’s the message from New Mexico’s new chairman of Natural Resources, former Apollo Astronaut Harrison “Jack” Schmitt.
Another famous Jack
An Op-Ed page war over Schmitt’s crackpot science broke out in the Sante Fe New Mexican last week, and the climate denial chorus, including the tobacco and petroleum fueled Heartland Institute, where Schmitt is a board member, rushed to defend his extreme views.
Now, scientists from the National Snow and Ice Data center have weighed in. Since NSIDC data was part of the discussion, they felt that clarification was needed.
Senior NSIDC Scientists Mark Serreze and Walt Meier signed the message, which ever-so-politely suggested that Dr. Schmitt was smoking crack.
Dr. Schmitt has apparently melded Tea Party politics with cold war fanaticism and an ferocious anti-science bias. With more appointments like this, New Mexico will be well on the way to becoming an technological backwater of the new energy economy.
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/02/07/exposing-new-mexicos-climate-denying-energy-secretary-harrison-schmitt/
http://climateprogress.org/2011/01/27/denier-harrison-schmitt-holdren-communists/
http://www.koat.com/news/26645379/detail.html
http://profmandia.wordpress.com/2011/02/07/nm-energy-secretary-harrison-schmitt-frozen-in-denial/
http://www.skepticalscience.com/Articgate-perpetuating-myth-Arctic-sea-ice-recovered.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/peter-h-gleick/misrepresenting-climate-s_b_819367.html
http://www.desmogblog.com/criticism-intensifies-new-mexico’s-climate-denying-energy-secretary-harrison-schmitt
http://www.grinzo.com/energy/?p=2351
http://climateprogress.org/2011/02/07/harrison-schmitt-climate-science-denier-arctic-sea-ice/
If you care about your children’s future, if you believe other species have a right to exist, if you believe that clean air, clean water, and a livable planet are the minimum that we can pass along to our heirs, then you are now, and have always been, a communist.
That’s the message from New Mexico’s new chairman of Natural Resources, former Apollo Astronaut Harrison “Jack” Schmitt.
Another famous JackAn Op-Ed page war over Schmitt’s crackpot science broke out in the Sante Fe New Mexican last week, and the climate denial chorus, including the tobacco and petroleum fueled Heartland Institute, where Schmitt is a board member, rushed to defend his extreme views.
Now, scientists from the National Snow and Ice Data center have weighed in. Since NSIDC data was part of the discussion, they felt that clarification was needed.
Senior NSIDC Scientists Mark Serreze and Walt Meier signed the message, which ever-so-politely suggested that Dr. Schmitt was smoking crack.
Regarding Mark Boslough’s Jan. 25 My View, “Climate-change deniers ignore science,” and in subsequent responses, there was discussion of Harrison Schmitt’s statement in 2009 that Arctic sea ice had recovered to 1989 levels. Since data from the National Snow and Ice Data Center were cited, we feel it worthwhile to clarify the issue for readers.
Sea ice conditions can vary from month to month, but overall we see the continuation of a strong downward trend. You can read our 2009 season analysis at NSIDC Press Room: 2009 Arctic sea ice minimum.
While 2009 Arctic sea ice extent did briefly exceed 1989 levels in April and May, it was substantially less than 1989 the rest of the year. The 2009 maximum extent, minimum extent, and annual average extent values were all well below 1989. Based on these facts, it would be incorrect to suggest that 2009 represented a recovery of Arctic sea ice to 1989 levels.
NSIDC posts the most recent data and regularly updated analyses of conditions at _http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/._
end quote
The most important measure of ice is not “extent” in any case, it’s total volume – shown here:Sea ice conditions can vary from month to month, but overall we see the continuation of a strong downward trend. You can read our 2009 season analysis at NSIDC Press Room: 2009 Arctic sea ice minimum.
While 2009 Arctic sea ice extent did briefly exceed 1989 levels in April and May, it was substantially less than 1989 the rest of the year. The 2009 maximum extent, minimum extent, and annual average extent values were all well below 1989. Based on these facts, it would be incorrect to suggest that 2009 represented a recovery of Arctic sea ice to 1989 levels.
NSIDC posts the most recent data and regularly updated analyses of conditions at _http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/._
end quote
Dr. Schmitt has apparently melded Tea Party politics with cold war fanaticism and an ferocious anti-science bias. With more appointments like this, New Mexico will be well on the way to becoming an technological backwater of the new energy economy.
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/02/07/exposing-new-mexicos-climate-denying-energy-secretary-harrison-schmitt/
http://climateprogress.org/2011/01/27/denier-harrison-schmitt-holdren-communists/
http://www.koat.com/news/26645379/detail.html
http://profmandia.wordpress.com/2011/02/07/nm-energy-secretary-harrison-schmitt-frozen-in-denial/
http://www.skepticalscience.com/Articgate-perpetuating-myth-Arctic-sea-ice-recovered.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/peter-h-gleick/misrepresenting-climate-s_b_819367.html
http://www.desmogblog.com/criticism-intensifies-new-mexico’s-climate-denying-energy-secretary-harrison-schmitt
http://www.grinzo.com/energy/?p=2351
http://climateprogress.org/2011/02/07/harrison-schmitt-climate-science-denier-arctic-sea-ice/
Anti Science Bill in New Mexico by Tea Baggers
YouTube - Bill Maher's Religulous - Visiting the Creationist Museum [CC]
climate denier Harrison Schmitt, who was recently appointed as head of Natural Resources in New Mexico. Mr. Schmitt’s allies in the legislature have recently moved to extend the tea party anti-science agenda with a bill aimed at science teaching in public schools.
If there was ever any doubt that an organized anti-science movement exists, and that it includes the climate denial movement, a report from Wired should remove all doubt.
YouTube - BBC report on Creationist Museum
YouTube - Bill Maher's Religulous - Visiting the Creationist Museum [CC]
climate denier Harrison Schmitt, who was recently appointed as head of Natural Resources in New Mexico. Mr. Schmitt’s allies in the legislature have recently moved to extend the tea party anti-science agenda with a bill aimed at science teaching in public schools.
If there was ever any doubt that an organized anti-science movement exists, and that it includes the climate denial movement, a report from Wired should remove all doubt.
If educators in New Mexico want to teach evolution or climate change as a “controversial scientific topic,” a new bill seeks to protect them from punishment.
House Bill 302, as it’s called, states that public school teachers who want to teach “scientific weaknesses” about “controversial scientific topics” including evolution, climate change, human cloning and — ambiguously — “other scientific topics” may do so without fear of reprimand. The legislation was introduced to the New Mexico House of Representatives on Feb. 1 by Republican Rep. Thomas A. Anderson.
——
What I learned in school today.
“These bills say, ‘Oh we’re just protecting the rights of teachers,’ which on the face of it isn’t wrong. But they draw big red circles around topics like evolution and climate change as topics to be wary about,” said Joshua Rosenau, a policy and projects director at the National Center for Science Education. “It suggests this kind of science is controversial, and would protect teachers who want to teach anti-evolution and climate-change-denying lessons in classrooms.”
The bill is one of five already introduced to state legislatures this year. While more than 30 such bills have been introduced since 2004, only Louisiana adopted one as law in 2008.
The bill’s introduction comes at a time when, according to a recent study in Science, only 28 percent of U.S. teachers overtly teach scientific concepts of evolution and 13 percent advocate creationism. Some 60 percent water down teaching evolution to avoid confrontation by students and parents.
So, for those of you that think teaching science might be a good idea to maintain US technological leadership, create more jobs and opportunities for young people, and help deal with problems like climate change, energy shortages, food production and AIDS, well, you’re just out of the loop.House Bill 302, as it’s called, states that public school teachers who want to teach “scientific weaknesses” about “controversial scientific topics” including evolution, climate change, human cloning and — ambiguously — “other scientific topics” may do so without fear of reprimand. The legislation was introduced to the New Mexico House of Representatives on Feb. 1 by Republican Rep. Thomas A. Anderson.
——
What I learned in school today.“These bills say, ‘Oh we’re just protecting the rights of teachers,’ which on the face of it isn’t wrong. But they draw big red circles around topics like evolution and climate change as topics to be wary about,” said Joshua Rosenau, a policy and projects director at the National Center for Science Education. “It suggests this kind of science is controversial, and would protect teachers who want to teach anti-evolution and climate-change-denying lessons in classrooms.”
The bill is one of five already introduced to state legislatures this year. While more than 30 such bills have been introduced since 2004, only Louisiana adopted one as law in 2008.
The bill’s introduction comes at a time when, according to a recent study in Science, only 28 percent of U.S. teachers overtly teach scientific concepts of evolution and 13 percent advocate creationism. Some 60 percent water down teaching evolution to avoid confrontation by students and parents.
YouTube - BBC report on Creationist Museum
They are all good ideas and it is true that a "free market" would lead in their development but the market is not free the market is owned by big finance. Supply and demand Avro, supply is controlled to maximize demand and therefore profit it is not free to meet the needs of people it is free to subjugate and rob them as efficiently as it can. Those products will never replace the dirty tech because they threaten the established gravy train and it's been that way for a hundred years in the present era. The efficiency of massively destructive profit rules, the efficient delivery of products that meet necessities are way down the corporate list.
So you believe in mans ability to adapt to invent to move forward so do the forces that meter that progress to suit them and no one else and you will never change their minds because that control keeps them on the top of the heap. You're an innocent wide eyed believer in fairy godmothers and angles.
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Really? So the denial machine has a vested interest in protecting oil and coal?
Thanks for that you make the case for the title of this thread.