For someone who is both left and right depending on the issue this is nothing short
of a disgrace. I am pro choice but this does not even fit into that category. The
thought of sacrificing children just because they are not your first choice is just too
low to comprehend. There is usually a serious reason for such an action and this
is not one of those reasons
Jumping the gun a little aren't we? There weren't any children to be sacrificed in the first place, so I don't know what you're talking about.
Leading by your emotions and biased ethics to dictate what others should and shouldn't do in regards to their own business is what's a disgrace.
Praxius. While I understand what you mean from a very baseline logical argument, the other side, the side that decides if people are worthy of kids or not, disagrees wholeheartedly. Mainly because anyone who is willing to go to such lengths to design their family is suspect in their ability to love their child no matter what life may bring, such as brain damage at birth, crippling infections as an infant, disfiguring car accidents, etc. Once you've placed such a huge qualifier on your willingness to raise a child, essentially declaring that half the possible babies (and even two ACTUAL fetuses) are not good enough for your purposes, then your willingness to raise future childrem well, raise them lovingly, despite flaws that may arise, is highly in question.
Of course I don't see it that way. They already have three children, all boys mind you..... there is nothing in the report stating that she is unwilling to raise those children, or that those children are not being loved and treated well, or that they're not "Good Enough" for her. The only reason some in here are making such claims are based on assumption and personal bias.
I have known a number of women over the years who have had a number of children, all of one gender..... be that all boys or all girls. But from growing up, or from wanting to share their own personal experiences and pass them on to a child, like what they went through as a boy or a girl growing up..... that relation is missing for some. I imagine everybody has known someone in their lives who said they always wished for a boy or always wished for a girl, whom already have children....... but would you say they love their existing children any less because they wish for a particular gender??
No, most would just see them as feeling like they're missing something in their lives and their family.... that it is not complete.
That's all I see this situation as. Sure, they aborted two twin fetuses that were boys and whom might have led productive and healthy lives..... but we all know that not everybody considers fetuses as a living breathing human being and are no different then a faulty organ or a parasite, or something else that's expendable.
And for the most part, the law views them almost the same way, as basic human rights and the classification of a human being to obtain those rights do not apply until you are born an take your first breath, regardless of how far along or developed the fetus may be....... so beyond someone's own personal religious or personal beliefs, no wrong was done and them viewing the situation as "a matter of fact" as they do with little emotional attachment to a couple of fetuses shouldn't be any surprise to anybody here.
the only difference between this situation and many other abortions is:
#1 - it was the abortion of two fetuses rather then one.
and
#2 - they openly voiced their personal reasons for why they had an abortion of those two fetuses.
if they never spoke out and if they never attempted to fight for the rights of selecting the gender of their future children, none of us would even be talking about this.... and it would have just been another abortion statistic on paper due to Dr/Patient confidentiality.
I am by no means a staunch Pro-Life Advocate(I believe in cases where the mother is in danger if she carries to term, as well as with rape, that the woman should be allowed to have an abortion if she wants), but this just isn't right. They should not be allowed to have this IVF procedure ever. If they wanted a daughter that badly, why the hell couldn't they have just adopted? Stuff like this just boggles my mind.
Simple and harsh answer to that, is that in reality, not everybody views an adopted child the same way they'd view their biological child. Some have no problem at all with adoption..... but some do..... just like some have no problem with abortion, while others do.
I want to add a couple of things.
1. I wonder what their three sons think of all this? If I was one of the sons, I couldn't help but think "That could have been me had I not been born when I was.".
Personally speaking, I couldn't care less..... both my parents made sure neither of them could have children after I was born after having three children...... how about the "What-If" where perhaps my parents decided to do that after my brother was born, thus I was never born?
I still couldn't care less, simple because 1 - it never happened that way and 2 - even if it did, I sure as hell wouldn't be around to bitch about it, would I?
What's the difference between my hypothetical situation and yours?
Not much
2. If they are successful with getting a daughter, I wonder what she would think of this happening when she gets older(as make no mistake, she WILL find out from someone)?
Who's to say she'd grow up being a pro-lifer?
Why not continue with the what-if's and speculations and ask how much it screws up kids to learn that they had an older brother or sister who died at a young age and they never met?
I personally would think it was interesting, but it wouldn't have much affect on my life, anymore then being told about my great grandmother..... there's no attachment, no connection...... and you'd probably have more connection to your imaginary friend then you would a sibling you never met.
But since these are all what-if's and hypotheticals, we're just spinning our wheels here and accomplishing nothing except to perhaps try and hit a few readers with more emotional spin.
I know of one who has 6 boys and wants a daughter. Not sure why but that goal drives her to produce more kids.
Exactly, because they want someone they can share their past experiences with better.
Say they saved a bunch of their own toys from growing up, or loved going fishing with their father, or doing specific things with their mother that your bothers wouldn't give two craps about doing..... or vice versa..... some people have parts of their own childhood that they truly loved and enjoyed, remember seeing the happiness they saw in their father or mother's eyes and want to have that again...... but their daughter doesn't care to play hockey or sports, or their son doesn't care to go to the farm and play with the horses.
It's like how christmas just dies off as you grow older, but when you have your own kids, you see the joy they get from it and it brings it all back to you.
Or it's like how when some men and/or women get older and their chances of having a child of their own diminishes
(due to working all the time, no steady relationship, medical reasons, etc.) they start to go a little crazy and feel their lives are not complete...... they really want a child.... so badly, that some even go so far as to either continue to have one child after another, or worse...... abduct someone else's child.
Expand on that, and you have people so adamant in having at least one child of a specific gender, that they'll go to the limits that this couple has.
Should they be forced to "Seek Help" in order to think like some people in here do?
Why should they when a very simple and easy solution exists that could make everybody happy??
We're not all the same, we all don't think the same way, but that doesn't mean some of us who think differently don't love their children any more or less then you do..... or the next person.
And don't forget, yes.... there are many out there who couldn't care less what the gender of their children are..... I'm one of them...... there are many out there who most certainly want at least one child....... and there are many out there who couldn't give a crap about having children period.
We are not all alike..... we do not all have the same priorities in life and we should not all be forced to live our lives the exact same way as the next person when it comes to making and raising
Your Own family.
And when you attempt to restrict people in what they can and can not do in regards to the children they bring into the world
(how many, what gender, how spaced apart they are from one another, how old you're allowed to be before you're too old, etc.) You will end up with people who will either
A - seek out abortions or
B - continue to have piles of kids until they get the one they want or
C - just don't care and are happy with what they got/get.
Many of my above examples are not directly the same compared to one another and the situations revolving around them are also different..... but the mentality that exists behind many of the decisions is the same.
were my parents in the wrong for getting snipped and clipped because I'll never know what it's like to have a younger brother or sister or simply because they interrupted the "natural course" of things?
That's for them to decide..... as for me, I couldn't care less because it was their life and as far as I'm concerned, they could have simply chose to have no kids at all and my brother, sister and I would have never existed.
What's the diff?
That's what I don't get. So what does that say about her youngest son? That he's not good enough for her, he will never live up to her expectations? That he can never be what she wanted him to be?
Oh come on now people.... you're looking way too far into this and pulling out assumptions based on crap.
It doesn't say a damn thing about her youngest son..... for all you and I know, she loves him just as much as any of her other children...... gee sorry, last I checked, since I'm a guy, it wouldn't make a whole lot of sense for me to go looking for prom dresses with my mom, or planning out my wedding with my mom, and my sister probably wouldn't enjoy all the war stuff and video games my dad and I do.......
be a little realistic here will ya?
As a male or female, there are simply some things you and I just can't do...... or at least, want to do...... and those things are sometimes important to our parents.
Go get engaged and then tell your mom she's not allowed to help you plan it and see what that does to her....... or go tell your dad that you don't want him to help you learn how to drive a standard or shoot a gun or go hunting...... or camping.
My wife once asked me how I felt that we would only have daughters, and I told her that made no difference to me, children are what they are, and want them to be happy and successful, and they'll be loved. That's it.
I have no idea why any parent would need a son vs a daughter. What exactly do you plan to do with / to your children that you require a specific gender?
See above...... while I hold a similar stance as you and probably won't have an issue with whatever gender my children come out as.... at this stage I don't know how I would really react when it does occur.
I would like to have at least a boy and a girl..... but I believe I could live with just one child, or two/three children of the same gender..... but I'm only speculating because I am not at that stage yet to truly know.
Your wife asked you, but typically us guys are not as attached to such things as women are..... I'm not trying to be sexist, it's just the way most of us tick....... did you bother to ask your wife how she would feel if you only had boys? Did she think about the things she would miss out on by not having at least one daughter? Do you think your boys would be all that happy to bring their mom along with them to pick out tuxes for their weddings? Do you think it would be the same thing??
It doesn't affect all women, but it does affect enough, whom at least want one daughter to sort of pass down their own legacy of how they were raised, as it just doesn't translate the same way with boys.... and for some men, that is equally true.
I am reluctantly pro-choice in that abortion isn't right by me and I would definitely argue against it - but it's not me who has to live with the consequences either. Murdering two boys just so one could have a girl is just that: Murder. i don't give a damn what legislation supports their deed. Tailor families is a bit over the top in my book.
:roll: It's not murder.... get over it already.
You can only imagine what kind of parents they would make. Willing to kill their children if they don't match the spec sheet. It's criminally insane!
They
Are parents...... are there any records stating they "killed" any of their current/existing/living children???
WTF is wrong with people that they can't even debate a simple topic without jumping off the deep end due to emotions and blowing things so far out of proportion... that's what's insane.
8O''''An Australian pioneer in IVF, Gab Kovacs, agreed. "I can't see how it could possibly harm anyone," he said.'''
The aborted twin boys might have had a different opinion.
Really?
How about you ask them?
Oh wait, they were obliterated, never mind...... in fact, they probably weren't even at the stage of development to fathom what was going on, let alone that they existed in the first place.
A new born baby can barely make out shapes and sounds, let alone give you a straight answer on if they need to crap...... what the hell makes you think a couple of fetuses could form an opinion?
yet another baseless, emotional argument.
I think the sons the couple already has will have some pretty serious questions at some point in the future. If the parents didn't want the last two boys, and only want a daughter, did they really want the first three sons? I think the sons will look back on this and wonder whether their parents wanted them, regardless of what the parents have to say about it.
Oh well.... show me one person who ever had a perfect childhood with perfect parents.
I know my parents weren't perfect, I also know they fuct up a few times too...... and I know I'll probably end up doing the same, just as you will.... just like your parents did...... just like every other parent out there.
And if someone does come back and seriously claims their parents were perfect and their upbringing was perfect..... I'd say they're delusional.
None of us are perfect, we all make mistakes...... in fact, some of us were mistakes..... at least accidents or not planned...... I know myself and my siblings weren't really planned, which is why my parents ended up being married in the first place, why they made sure they had no more after me, and why they divorced later on in life......
That's not to say my parents didn't love us or that our childhood was a complete and miserable hell..... it simply wasn't perfect and sometimes sh*t happens.
Point being:
I'm sure we all had some tough questions for our parents at one time or another.... regardless of what our parents did or didn't do, regardless of what they might have screwed up or didn't..... they still loved us for who we are/were and did the best they could.
I cut my parents some slack simply because I know it will soon be my turn and I know I'm sure as hell ain't going to get it all right the first time around...... and I can only hope my children in the future will have understanding like I have... that we're all human.
