Khadr - Pleads Guilty to Terror Charges
- Thread starter Goober
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Khadr has family that was subjected to similar experiences, yet they didn't participate in the manner that Khadr did. He was aware of the "goals" of his actions and was offered money for each soldier that he killed.
Speer's wife and children were more than aware that the job that he was doing was extremely dangerous and there was a likelihood that he may be killed/injured, however, having to live with the knowledge that Omar is being treated as a poor, misunderstood boy is far beyond pale.
Personally, I don't think that this recommended sentence is long enough, but that's too bad for me I guess, but it does go a long way in sending a strong message to those people in the world that target opportunities in straddling fences, especially those that depend on the softness of the West.
There are no more excuses for the Khadr's of the world.
How do you figure that?... There was almost no coverage of it in the US until the end.
With the above in mind, perhaps we should have employed some Middle Eastern justice for Khadr.
Would that comply with your ideals?
Answer my points on Child Soldiers, Recognized as exploited by the UN and many Govts and then the US response.
As to my ideals they are fair justice - He was indoctrinated from childhood - Along with the families consent - Familiarize yourself with how some Muslim Family the mans word is law.
But i am also quite interested in how you look upon 8 and 10 year olds that were forced to kill their parents and family in the various so called liberation Armies to use the term quite loosely in Africa. We treat them as the wounded. Not as fanatics.
My guess is that when he returns to Canada he will be carried on the shoulders of Jack Layton and Michael Ignatieff and hailed as a National Hero.
I've thought a lot about this, both in regard to the Khadr case and the African child soldiers and I really don't see a palatable option.
These kids are broken, through no fault of their own (quite the opposite in cases like Khadr where the people that break them are the ones who should be protecting them with every fiber of their being) but they have problems that may make them unable to be rehabilitated. They hate and they have killed, and feel little to no remorse. Unless their indoctrinations can be overcome, they are not safe to be let free in our society... and overcoming their programming seems to be pretty much hit and miss.
Khadr's father, I wish he could die many more times for what he did to his son. And any adult member of the Khadr family not born here, should be stripped of citizenship and deported for their abetting this crime.
But as much as we may want to try and salvage the life of this young man, how do we minimize the risk he poses to other members of our society?
That's your opinion Cap but that is all it is and you are welcome to it. We are talkin' War here not a f*****g polo match.
I thought that I did in a previous post, regardless, my position is that I do not agree with the application of Khadr being considered a "child soldier" for a variety of reasons. As I mentioned earlier, he has family members (namely a brother) that was exposed to the same/similar factors, yet he wasn't in Afghanistan on a parallel mission... According to your assumptions, that brother shoud have been there... Clearly he wasn't
Further, Khadr - according to the tell-tale videos that were part of the trial - was (in part) participating in the actions for the purpose of making money for every soldier he killed. Clearly, this component alone suggests that there was a non-religious, non-familial influence but a material factor involved.
Lastly, the UN's stance on child soldiers relates to "soldier"... Khadr is a terrorist, plain and simple. You (or anyone) can believe all you want that he was something else, but in the end, he is not Afghan, he was not "defending his homeland from invaders and he was directly involved in activities (ie. making IED's) that would punish randomly (namely civilians and military alike).
You are also making an argument that Khadr is beyond salvage. Unless you are planning on re-programming him to turn his back on his family, religion and his very core being (for the last 24 years that is)... I would imagine that the UN would have something to say about that too.
I believe that I have read about some of the examples you are referring to. Africa, If I'm not mistaken.
From what I've read/seen/heard, these children were exposed to a more significant threshold of exploitation and psychological abuse:
- The killing of a family member followed-up with threats against their remaoning family if they didn't comply.
- Mixing indoctrination with the use of alcohol, drugs and sex to blur the "lines".
- Removing them from their families and replacing a "disfunctional family" that supported the disfunction.
Khadr was not (to my knowledge) subjected to any of this.
Blame Khadr's parents all you like, but in the end, we are all a function of our environments and families.... If Khadr is this far gone, there is no coming back and in the end, the Speer family doesn't give a rat's ass if his family is to blame or not...
Lt. Speer lives only in the memories of his friends and family and it is not exactly cold comfort as his widow or child to have to be forced to swallow this nonsense that their father's/husband's killer should get off with a slap on the wrist.
Do you equate terrorism with war JLM?
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Semantics? Really?
How about Hitler and the rest of that happy bunch of killers? Do you believe that there is room for their forgiveness based on their having less than satisfying childhoods?.. Sure, they were adults when they did the deeds, but, they are a function of their poor, deficient childhoods, right?
What will be your excuse when Khadr takes another life or is involved in terrorist activities?.. Will you still be willing to go to bat for Omar and tell any future victims that the poor wee little lamb had an unfortunate childhood?
You're putting things out of all proportion, he was 15 years old. Fifteen year olds in civilian court who rape and murder young kids are out of prison in seven years, generally a lot less and we're not talking the Gulag that Guantanimo is. I think Omar can be released and controlled with a G.P.S. chip in an ankle bracelet and a strict curfew. Forty years in prison will do nobody any good and will make him worse. If you weren't there you don't know the whole story.
Tell ya what... I would happily support your logic provided that he face the justice system in the nation where he did the deed.
How'd you feel about that?
And let's be real clear on this... If you want to give me this nonsense that "I wasn't there" therefore I won't know the entire story, the fact is you weren't there either. That said, you'll have a tough time making that argument to me or anyone else especially in the face of the videos that exist... Hell, I'm to understand that Khadr stopped pedaling his lies about being innocent when they showed him the videos that he was in.
Amazing how fast Khadr struck a deal once he saw those, eh?
1 year in an Afghan prison would be just fine.
First of all I guess it depends on whether you are after revenge or justice. If he were a civilian who committed a crime against the Afghan people I would whole heartedly agree to him serving whatever sentence they meted out for the crime. What did he do that was skin off the Afghan's ass? Is Afghanistan known for meting out justice or would he just get more treatment similar to Guantanimo? I admit I have no more knowledge than you do about what transpired but then I'm not the one who is gung ho about extracting a pound of flesh either.
Exactly what is the difference? It wouldn't be too hard to interpret "justice" as a form of societal vengence/revenge.
What formal military did Khadr belong to?
Can you tell me what their uniforms look like?
What single nation are the based out of?
Why are their members compensated on a "per head" basis?
Khadr was in Afghanistan on behalf of a terrorist group to kill Americans, not to assist the Afghans. His "group" manufactured IEDs and planted them randomly throughout the country. While their intent was to kill soldiers, those bombs don't differentiate between soldiers or kids.
That said, there was lots of skin of the asses of the Afghans along with legs, arms and heads.
I couldn't really tell you, but I'd wager that if he was in an Afghan prison, poor wee Omar would long for the days in Gitmo.
... But a couple hundred pounds of Speer's flesh is OK, is it?
You just don't get it do you? A child who commits a heinous crime serves no more than 7 years in Canada. Also Omar's confession is questionable as it was done after long years of duress. We know that Bush had no problem with a little torture for prisoners of war. You should get ALL the facts before getting too gung ho to "string him up". :smile:
