States Consider allowing legal noncitizens to vote

[ironsides]

States Consider allowing legal noncitizens to vote, are they nuts or not.

PORTLAND, Maine (AP) - Like his neighbors, Claude Rwaganje pays taxes on his income and taxes on his cars. His children have gone to Portland's public schools. He's interested in the workings of Maine's largest city, which he has called home for 13 years. There's one vital difference, though: Rwaganje isn't a U.S. citizen and isn't allowed to vote on those taxes or on school issues.

Opponents of the measure say immigrants already have an avenue to cast ballots - by becoming citizens. Allowing noncitizens to vote dilutes the meaning of citizenship, they say, adding that it could lead to fraud and unfairly sway elections.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20101023/D9J1G02O3.html

 

[petros]

Wasn't "taxation without representation" the basis of US spilling blood with Britain and seperating?

 

[ironsides]

Wasn't "taxation without representation" the basis of US spilling blood with Britain and seperating?

They are not citizens of this land. During the revolution, we/they were citizens of Great Briton.

 

[petros]

Citizens without what being taxed without what under British law? Representation?

Who represents those being taxed but not allowed to vote?

 

[DurkaDurka]

Voting is one of the benefits of citizenship, what is the point of obtaining citizenship if one gets all the same rights & privileges without it?

 

[petros]

And as non citizens paying taxes of a citizen without representation makes them what? Suckers?

 

[DurkaDurka]

And as non citizens paying taxes of a citizen without representation makes them what? Suckers?

Paying their dues while they hopefully are in the process of obtaining citizenship.

 

[wulfie68]

And as non citizens paying taxes of a citizen without representation makes them what? Suckers?

But ultimately the choice of citizenship is the non-resident taxpayer's. If they want to have a full say in the government, they can and should take the steps to become full citizens. If they want to work as an ex-pat and send the money they earn back to some other place and not undertake the full obligations and responsibilities of citizenship, they have no room to complain.

I don't care if its the US, Canada or anywhere else: if you want to have a say in the government, you need to become a citizen.

 

[DaSleeper]

A few years ago When applying for CPP I found out that in order to collect you had to prove that you were a Canadian Citizen...either with a Canadian Birth certificate or Naturalization papers...
That made me think of my friend, one year younger than me, who had lived here all his life, but was born, and lived in Detroit for a few months while his father worked there..

He had lived and worked here all these years and paid taxes without being a legal citizen and even had a social insurance number which in the early days was applied for and distributed by your employer.

I order to later receive CPP an OAS he had to go through the whole procedure of getting the long form from Detroit which showed his parents as Canadian citizens, and even though he had paid taxes and paid into the CPP all his working life....it took almost a year....

Some time later...I saw him at the voting booth and reminded him that this was the first time he was legal to vote.......

 

[petros]

But ultimately the choice of citizenship is the non-resident taxpayer's. If they want to have a full say in the government, they can and should take the steps to become full citizens.

If it were only that simple.

 

[ironsides]

Nothing wrong with proving your a citizen of a particular country especially of you want something from their retirement system. In the U.S. (5 years permanent residency, know some English. know some American History), and of course pass exam.

It is that simple for a legal immigrant. As far as I know that is all that is required, maybe a little off but close enough.

Citizens without what being taxed without what under British law? Representation?

Who represents those being taxed but not allowed to vote?

Want representation, become a citizen. Taxpayer do not have to pay the bill for freeloaders on their retirement system. 5 years is all it takes. Yes we did kick English tax collectors out. So?

 

[damngrumpy]

Lets get serious here for a moment, in order to vote you must be a citizen of the country.
Taxation in this case does not apply. Just because you have a business, or property or
anything, if you have not made a commitment to the nation by actually applying to become
a naturalized citizen, you are not part of the legitimate society. Now I didn't say legal
society I said legitimate society, and that is becoming a citizen.
Think about what some are suggesting. Under the idea that its is about taxation without
representation, then anyone living in the country or outside the country that paid taxes in
some way would be entitled to vote. If that were to happen, the citizens living here and
paying the bulk of the taxes would lose control of the country to people who don't even
live here.
All law goes by precedent and what is the foundation for the purpose of changing the law.
Just because you pay taxes does not make you a citizen, being born here or taking the
oath of loyalty to the nation and becoming a citizen is what gives you voting rights.

 

[ironsides]

Exactly, paying taxes (non citizen) just gives you the opportunity to make more money.

 

[wulfie68]

If it were only that simple.

It is that simple as far as the US goes: if you have the profession/documentation to get a work visa and become that tax paying non-resident, you have all the documentation/qualifications/etc needed to get a green card (landed immigrant status) and be on that road to full citizenship. Now it doesn't happen over night but it will happen.

 

[EagleSmack]

And as non citizens paying taxes of a citizen without representation makes them what? Suckers?

They are free to leave whenever they feel they are being under represented.

Until then... they should not be able to vote.

 

[damngrumpy]

The world would become chaos if we were allowed to go anywhere pay taxes and vote. For one
thing there would be countries that would not allow it anyway and people without any ties to your
way of life would be making decisions for you based on what is good for their pocketbook and I
see anyone liking that very much

 

[EagleSmack]

The world would become chaos if we were allowed to go anywhere pay taxes and vote. For one
thing there would be countries that would not allow it anyway and people without any ties to your
way of life would be making decisions for you based on what is good for their pocketbook and I
see anyone liking that very much

In just about every country the idea is absolutely ludicrous and not given a second thought... except for the US.

My hope is to have these cities... San Francisco and Portland Maine FLOODED with illegals and immigrants and have the liberals swept from local offices.

 

[damngrumpy]

The problem is it is not only Liberals, who advocate for the policy it is also those who
are middle of the road and some slightly to the right, where large groups of immigrant
families live. All the sides keep an eye on what might happen, and what might become
an electoral problem for them in the future. If all sides stayed in the here and now they
would head this off. Illegal immigration will eventually be a problem for the west in that
people will settle here gain a vote here and bring their old ways with them including the
old conflicts with other groups who will also be arriving

 

[ironsides]

San Francisco needs more than a flood of illegals to clean it up. But that would be a start.

 

[EagleSmack]

The problem is it is not only Liberals, who advocate for the policy it is also those who
are middle of the road and some slightly to the right, where large groups of immigrant
families live. All the sides keep an eye on what might happen, and what might become
an electoral problem for them in the future. If all sides stayed in the here and now they
would head this off. Illegal immigration will eventually be a problem for the west in that
people will settle here gain a vote here and bring their old ways with them including the
old conflicts with other groups who will also be arriving

Maybe up in Canada but not down here. It is the liberals who 99% of the time advocate this baloney. One need only to look at the two cities to determine that. San Fran and Portland Maine. Moonbats one and all.

Right now it is a good idea because they are handfeeding them and they will secure their seats. When immigrants actually threaten to TAKE their seats they will have a change of heart I am sure.