AGW Denial, The Greatest Scam in History?

Tonington

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 27, 2006
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How do you add new species to a closed system?

You asked about a fish bowl...the observant human would just place the new species in the bowl, through that round opening on top.

How does a limited diet control overpopulation?
A limited diet controls nutrient fluxes until the ecosystem is fully functioning.

Where do you get time when it's already at crisis?
Well, you make the best use of what time there is. No time to waste to bother arguing about whether or not there is a problem...
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
117,225
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Low Earth Orbit
You asked about a fish bowl...the observant human would just place the new species in the bowl, through that round opening on top.

A limited diet controls nutrient fluxes until the ecosystem is fully functioning.

Well, you make the best use of what time there is. No time to waste to bother arguing about whether or not there is a problem...
The earth has a hole in the top to add and subtract things?

Try again.
 

Tonington

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 27, 2006
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The earth has a hole in the top to add and subtract things?

Try again.

Then ask a more sensible question if it's the earth you're interested in...the earth has land mass as well, unlike the majority of aquariums.
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
39,817
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I wouldn't mind having a fair and reasonable discussion about contrails. I'm having a little bit of confusion with what you're asking for though, petros. Can you clarify your position regarding the IPCC and their inability to confirm these details? Preferably without the condescension.

Here's a graph that I dug up that seems to show contrails as fairly minor according to the IPCC. Is this invalid?



Also found this..
Comparing projected IS92a carbon emissions from fossil fuels in Figure 6-6, CO2 emissions from aircraft in 1990 account for about 2.4% of the total; they are projected to grow to about 3% (Fa1) of all fossil fuel carbon emissions by 2050. Sustained growth in air traffic demand (5%/yr compounded) envisaged in Edh would lead to an aviation fraction of more than 10% by 2050. By comparison, the entire transportation sector is currently about 25% of the total (see discussion in Chapter 8).
http://www.grida.no/publications/other/ipcc_sr/?src=/Climate/ipcc/aviation/index.htm
 
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Avro

Time Out
Feb 12, 2007
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Climate Scientists React to Bizarre Climate Commentary by Robert Laughlin

Andy Revkin has posted several reactions from climate scientists to Nobel physicist Robert Laughlin's essay in The American Scholar in which he asserts that the climate system is "beyond our power to control," and humanity cannot and should not do anything to respond to climate change.
Needless to say, Laughlin's piece - and George Will's Newsweek commentary about it - have drawn swift and severe criticism from scientists who specialize in studying climate change.

For example, Matthew Huber of Purdue University’s Climate Dynamics Prediction Laboratory takes Laughlin to task, suggesting that:
“He needs to take some courses in paleoclimate — I suggest he start at the undergraduate level. I hear there might be something appropriate being taught on his campus. His know-nothing approach hearkens back to the pre-scientific era of the flat earth, vapors and phlogiston.”
Huber points out that the fundamentals of climate change are sound:
“…raise greenhouse gases and the climate will warm substantially. There is no great mystery here, other than perhaps why a Nobel prize winner is either ignorant of the major results of the field of paleoclimatology over the past two decades or simply chooses to ignore the science for the sake of some sound bytes.
"Our understanding of the climate system is still rudimentary but ultimately we know what the big knobs are that turn up the heat and those are the same knobs we are cranking on right now. We know this absolutely and have known at least since Arrhenius and he got the Nobel (in 1903)!”
Check out the rest of the scientists' reactions over at Revkin's Dot Earth blog.

 

Walter

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Jan 28, 2007
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Re: 2010, another year of extreme coral bleaching

According to James Hansen at between a +10-20 watts per metre squared forcing we'll cross a tipping point that results in a runaway greenhouse effect that will kill all surface life... in which case life won't go on.
Hansen has zero cred: see climategate.
 

Cobalt_Kid

Council Member
Feb 3, 2007
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Yup, it's the greatest scam ever and the best funded.

The fossil fuel sector has spent over a billion dollars in the last dozen years funding think tanks and PR firms to attack the science while lobbying politicians on a massive scale, there's more than four lobbyists for each US congressman on the contrarian side.
 

Praxius

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Dec 18, 2007
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Re: 2010, another year of extreme coral bleaching

But for how long and at what cost? Business as usual will only speed things up until we crash into the proverbial brick wall.

And suddenly attempting some radical change in the way we all live is not only impossible, but pointless because even if it was possible to accomplish enough change to make a difference, that difference will come way too late...... that is, if the Globalwarmongers predictions are actually true.

All that would happen is we'd run into that brick wall a little slower, but the end results will remain the exact same.

If Man-Made Global Warming is indeed true, then we should have been making radical changes on a larger scale then we are today, back in the mid/late 80's, which back then, all of this nightmare flooding and destruction was supposed to happen at the turn of the century, noticing most of the effects by 1997....... back in the early 90's it was predicted that New York and other coast lines would be under several metres of ocean, which included where I live by the late 90's...... which scared the crap out of me as a 10 year old kid watching these reports on TV...... yet their predicted timeline never happened, the ocean on the island most of my mom's side of the family lives is at the same level it was since as far back as I can remember.

Yet now all of the exact same predictions are being made all over again, except this time, instead of it being in the next 15-20 years, it's in the next 50-100 years.

Fooled me once.

Yes, but for less and less species every day.

Less and less species that we're used to seeing..... have you taken a recent look at the number of new species being discovered in the last few years?

Do a google search and you'll see new ape species, butterflies, sea creatures and a bunch more species have been discovered popping their heads out for a look around.... the planet adapts in a multitude of ways and when one species disappears, usually another takes its place.

Look at all the dinosaurs before us...... or all the various animals that existed during the Ice Age...... eventually species will either evolve, adapt or die..... it's only a matter of time, regardless if we're the direct result of them dying off or if it was just nature..... we're a part of nature after all, thus our own actions, whatever they may be, are just as much a part of nature as anything else.

Research shows that habitats are migrating polewards at about 35 kilometres a decade while the biotas(flora and fauna) are only able to migrate at about 8 km/decade.

With the warming already inevitable we're looking at a loss of about 20% of species by the end of this century. This goes up to about 60% with a doubling of C02 levels from pre-industrial times.

According to James Hansen at between a +10-20 watts per metre squared forcing we'll cross a tipping point that results in a runaway greenhouse effect that will kill all surface life... in which case life won't go on.
I doubt that very much..... there's so many predictions and so-called scientific calculations created by all sorts of limited simulations, that I could come up with my own scientific explanation on how to turn oxygen into split pea soup.

How did life survive, let alone, be created on this planet back when most of the earth was covered by volcanoes and cracks in the Earth's surface exposing greater amounts of CO2 into the atmosphere?

If you look at various Glacier Ice Core data graphs, you'll also notice that back around the time of the Roman Empire's peak, global temperatures were far warmer then they are today..... yet there was no industrialization back then..... no pollution compared to the amount we have today...... so how does one explain that?

And if you take the ice core data and go back a couple hundred thousand years, you'll also notice that there is a global pattern to temperatures increasing and then decreasing...... currently we're on the upswing...... yet when you look at graphs and charts supporting "Global Warming" you'll notice how the majority of them only go back as far as the late 1800's, around the time of the industrial revolution and then go forward towards today, claiming that there's a link that the temps increased due to use going industrial.

Example of a typical Global Warming Graph:

Wow!..... We're all going to die by the looks of that!!!

Oh but wait:

^ Notice the pattern and how we're perfectly lined up for the next increase?

Or how about this one:




And let's also not forget about the impact hurricanes and tropical storms have on temperatures both in the air and in the ocean...... yet Globalwarmongers continually use Hurricanes as one of their boogy men, claiming that with warmer temps, come bigger and more destructive hurricanes and flooding....... of course bigger and more powerful hurricanes will come with warmer temps...... but after one season of powerful hurricanes, there is usually 2-3 years of minor or very few hurricanes to report...... why?

Because the ocean waters were cooled down, not just by the previous hurricanes, but from a collective of environmental chain reactions that come with Hurricanes.

I personally look forward to experiencing hurricanes where I live and the last one that whacked Nova Scotia couldn't have come sooner..... we were going through something like a two week heat wave of 32+ Celsius with humidity well into the 40's.

Then Earl came through and by the following day and ever since right to today, it's been cool around here..... in the mid teens to low 20's...... instantly after Earl passed.

The last Hurricane of any significance that came before Earl towards us, was Juan back in 2003, which came after two seriously hot summers that were totally unbearable..... fans and air conditioners were sold out in much of the Maritimes...... then we got smacked by Juan, and Juan did a lot of damage....... but it cooled down after that, followed by White Juan, which was a massive snow storm that hit us that following winter and bitter cold temps.

Since then, I honestly haven't complained about the heat in the summer up until this past summer..... and then Earl hit..... which was far weaker then Juan, but still did its job of cooling the place down.

There are a slew of other factors I could list off or talk about that Globalwarmongers either avoid or dismiss because they're too ignorant to look at any information different then from what they parrot...... but I think I posted enough at this stage.

The point being is that whatever is going to happen, it's going to happen regardless of what we do, regardless if we directly created the problem or not....... or if there even is a problem in the first place.

And no matter what happens in the future, life will go on on this planet, in one form or another.

That's OK, because neither do you.

Not much of a counter argument...... one is stating their opinion based on logical reviewing of given information...... the other is all up on his high horse claiming to be an expert and for all to unquestionably follow what he commands...... yet also was caught fudging the information to suit his objectives and clearly shown multiple times a total bias and un-scientific perspective on such a matter as what we're talking about.

Walter has more credibility in my books then Hansen.

I also believe I heard him quoted as saying anybody who questions or doesn't accept global warming should face jail time....... quite the "Scientific" attitude wouldn't you say?

That's certainly one way to force people to believe what you believe..... and it's also a great way to make sure your so-called "Scientific Data" doesn't actually get tested or reviewed.

And wasn't he the same idiot who ran around with claims of Global Cooling back in the 70's?

He doesn't seem to be able to make up his mind and stick to one story very well. I suppose that has to do with how much money is filling his pocket and who's telling him to say what.
 
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Praxius

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Dec 18, 2007
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Re: 2010, another year of extreme coral bleaching

Can't be done Tonn, this topic dosen't go well with the denier talking points.

Just like that long winded junk spewed out by Praxious....eveything that was said there has been thoroughly debunked again and again.

Coral reefs....umm....duh....oh yeah....well......life goes on....nah nah nah.

Hows that for science.:roll:

Oh look, Avro decided to muster something out of his brain again..... fascinating it's the same peanut gallery junk he always spouts, ala contributing to the topic even less then I apparently am by just popping his head in to toss a few snipes out at a particular member like he actually knows something :roll:

My responses were directly related to the questions and comments directed at me in this thread.

If the corals are dying off because of "Climate Change" then there's nothing any of us can do about it, nor should we...... which was already addressed in my "Long-Winded Junk" as Avro put it..... Oh but unfortunately Avro and also Tonington obviously missed the point, or simply didn't bother to read anything posted and just went to the automatic response "Wah, that's not what we're talking about."

If your guy's positions and concerns about the corals are based around "Global Warming" ~ Which in the past, has been the case, then again..... I addressed those things as well...... which you guys once again either avoided or didn't bother to read.

And in regards to various species on this planet going extinct, regardless of global warming, climate change or because there isn't enough blue M&M's in your typical package...... the end results and answers I already addressed are still the same.

Species go extinct.

New species will be created.

The World is not supposed to remain the exact same for eons and eons.

If you guys want to continue to bitch and moan about mankind's influence and interference on the Earth which we're a direct part of, and complain that all the problems we're facing, such as these corals dying off, are all our fault and we need to do something..... then where do you draw the line to point where our interference goes over the line?

No matter what we do, who or what we save, whether we stay out of something or we jump right in and get involved..... either directly or indirectly, we're involved and we have an influence.

And no matter how many rainbows come shooting out of your arses full of good intentions, eventually certain species on this planet will cease to exist.

And as I already stated, which was ignored or not read because people are too lazy to read through "REAL" information....... even if there was something we could all do, it's already too late, because by the time our drastic life changes are made and by the time the impact of those changes take effect to turn things around....... say 50-100 years from now...... what you were trying to save already went kaput.

Yet it's funny how none of what I already said and everything I just repeated again in this post, some how doesn't relate to the topic.

I suppose it doesn't relate to the topic because it's not what you guys want to hear, which is yet another mindless follower of fear mongering planting their lips on your ass and suck the BS out and asking for seconds.

Added:

I also see that the two in here complaining about me not sticking to the topic have themselves side-tracked to make more smart little quips at those who don't agree with them and have yet to provide any other evidence or decent counter arguments to what has been presented.

"Can't be done Tonn, this topic dosen't go well with the denier talking points."

Pot meet the mirror..... I responded as I see how it relates to the topic and the questions presented to me personally...... what have you contributed to the topic?

Oh that's right..... NOTHING ..... well except your predicted trolling and smart ass comments from the balcony.

^ At least they're funny.
 
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Cobalt_Kid

Council Member
Feb 3, 2007
1,760
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Re: 2010, another year of extreme coral bleaching

And suddenly attempting some radical change in the way we all live is not only impossible, but pointless because even if it was possible to accomplish enough change to make a difference, that difference will come way too late...... that is, if the Globalwarmongers predictions are actually true.

All that would happen is we'd run into that brick wall a little slower, but the end results will remain the exact same.

If Man-Made Global Warming is indeed true, then we should have been making radical changes on a larger scale then we are today, back in the mid/late 80's, which back then, all of this nightmare flooding and destruction was supposed to happen at the turn of the century, noticing most of the effects by 1997....... back in the early 90's it was predicted that New York and other coast lines would be under several metres of ocean, which included where I live by the late 90's...... which scared the crap out of me as a 10 year old kid watching these reports on TV...... yet their predicted timeline never happened, the ocean on the island most of my mom's side of the family lives is at the same level it was since as far back as I can remember.

Yet now all of the exact same predictions are being made all over again, except this time, instead of it being in the next 15-20 years, it's in the next 50-100 years.

Fooled me once.



Less and less species that we're used to seeing..... have you taken a recent look at the number of new species being discovered in the last few years?

Do a google search and you'll see new ape species, butterflies, sea creatures and a bunch more species have been discovered popping their heads out for a look around.... the planet adapts in a multitude of ways and when one species disappears, usually another takes its place.

Look at all the dinosaurs before us...... or all the various animals that existed during the Ice Age...... eventually species will either evolve, adapt or die..... it's only a matter of time, regardless if we're the direct result of them dying off or if it was just nature..... we're a part of nature after all, thus our own actions, whatever they may be, are just as much a part of nature as anything else.

I doubt that very much..... there's so many predictions and so-called scientific calculations created by all sorts of limited simulations, that I could come up with my own scientific explanation on how to turn oxygen into split pea soup.

How did life survive, let alone, be created on this planet back when most of the earth was covered by volcanoes and cracks in the Earth's surface exposing greater amounts of CO2 into the atmosphere?

If you look at various Glacier Ice Core data graphs, you'll also notice that back around the time of the Roman Empire's peak, global temperatures were far warmer then they are today..... yet there was no industrialization back then..... no pollution compared to the amount we have today...... so how does one explain that?

And if you take the ice core data and go back a couple hundred thousand years, you'll also notice that there is a global pattern to temperatures increasing and then decreasing...... currently we're on the upswing...... yet when you look at graphs and charts supporting "Global Warming" you'll notice how the majority of them only go back as far as the late 1800's, around the time of the industrial revolution and then go forward towards today, claiming that there's a link that the temps increased due to use going industrial.

Example of a typical Global Warming Graph:

Wow!..... We're all going to die by the looks of that!!!

Oh but wait:

^ Notice the pattern and how we're perfectly lined up for the next increase?

Or how about this one:




And let's also not forget about the impact hurricanes and tropical storms have on temperatures both in the air and in the ocean...... yet Globalwarmongers continually use Hurricanes as one of their boogy men, claiming that with warmer temps, come bigger and more destructive hurricanes and flooding....... of course bigger and more powerful hurricanes will come with warmer temps...... but after one season of powerful hurricanes, there is usually 2-3 years of minor or very few hurricanes to report...... why?

Because the ocean waters were cooled down, not just by the previous hurricanes, but from a collective of environmental chain reactions that come with Hurricanes.

I personally look forward to experiencing hurricanes where I live and the last one that whacked Nova Scotia couldn't have come sooner..... we were going through something like a two week heat wave of 32+ Celsius with humidity well into the 40's.

Then Earl came through and by the following day and ever since right to today, it's been cool around here..... in the mid teens to low 20's...... instantly after Earl passed.

The last Hurricane of any significance that came before Earl towards us, was Juan back in 2003, which came after two seriously hot summers that were totally unbearable..... fans and air conditioners were sold out in much of the Maritimes...... then we got smacked by Juan, and Juan did a lot of damage....... but it cooled down after that, followed by White Juan, which was a massive snow storm that hit us that following winter and bitter cold temps.

Since then, I honestly haven't complained about the heat in the summer up until this past summer..... and then Earl hit..... which was far weaker then Juan, but still did its job of cooling the place down.

There are a slew of other factors I could list off or talk about that Globalwarmongers either avoid or dismiss because they're too ignorant to look at any information different then from what they parrot...... but I think I posted enough at this stage.

The point being is that whatever is going to happen, it's going to happen regardless of what we do, regardless if we directly created the problem or not....... or if there even is a problem in the first place.

And no matter what happens in the future, life will go on on this planet, in one form or another.



Not much of a counter argument...... one is stating their opinion based on logical reviewing of given information...... the other is all up on his high horse claiming to be an expert and for all to unquestionably follow what he commands...... yet also was caught fudging the information to suit his objectives and clearly shown multiple times a total bias and un-scientific perspective on such a matter as what we're talking about.

Walter has more credibility in my books then Hansen.

I also believe I heard him quoted as saying anybody who questions or doesn't accept global warming should face jail time....... quite the "Scientific" attitude wouldn't you say?

That's certainly one way to force people to believe what you believe..... and it's also a great way to make sure your so-called "Scientific Data" doesn't actually get tested or reviewed.

And wasn't he the same idiot who ran around with claims of Global Cooling back in the 70's?

He doesn't seem to be able to make up his mind and stick to one story very well. I suppose that has to do with how much money is filling his pocket and who's telling him to say what.

Is it any wonder you have a Klingon as a avatar, this is more science fiction than science fact.

I didn't waste my time reading all this but there's a few points I'll respond to.

First off beginning a switch right now to a less carbon intensive energy model will have dramatic effects in the future. The estimated cost is about 1% a year of GDP which compares to the 20% of GDP a year in environmental damage which is estimated to be the cost within a few decades. Spending a bit now save a whole lot later. Even nuclear power would be better than building the 1,400 coal power plants planned worldwide for the next 20 years.

And all those new species you seem to believe are sponataneously appearing are being discovered, not created. We're in a period of accelerated species extinction, not creation.

you can't believe anything any of the climate nazis say anymore. period.

Which nazis are those, the academics doing actual scientific research, or the sellouts who are in most cases working outside their area of expertise while being heavily funded by the fossil fuel industry.

Keep in kind that Mussolini, the founder of modern fascism said it should be more accurately called corporatism.
 

Skatchie

Time Out
Sep 24, 2010
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Re: 2010, another year of extreme coral bleaching

Where do they come up with this crap, anyways? You realize that the volcano in Iceland that erupted this year put more carbon into the air then all of humanity, every person, vehicles, building, factory, has in the last decade. The science that claims carbon is causing problems is junk science. In Al Gore's atrocity of film he shows a graph correlating carbon and temperature increases. The map isn't over lapping. Reason being, carbon increase comes after temperature increase, not before. Temperature increases caused carbon increases not the other way around. It's all BS. They are lying to us to tax us. The Rothschilds fund Al Gore. That's all we need to know about it.

Fossil fuels funding science???? Name one. It's simply not true.
 

Cobalt_Kid

Council Member
Feb 3, 2007
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Re: 2010, another year of extreme coral bleaching

Where do they come up with this crap, anyways? You realize that the volcano in Iceland that erupted this year put more carbon into the air then all of humanity, every person, vehicles, building, factory, has in the last decade. The science that claims carbon is causing problems is junk science. In Al Gore's atrocity of film he shows a graph correlating carbon and temperature increases. The map isn't over lapping. Reason being, carbon increase comes after temperature increase, not before. Temperature increases caused carbon increases not the other way around. It's all BS. They are lying to us to tax us. The Rothschilds fund Al Gore. That's all we need to know about it.

It's called science, you go out and measure and observe things and then develope theories to explain the data. In the case of atmospheric CO2 there are different isotope ratios that identify its' source, and human activity is resulting in the emission of far more CO2 than geologic by about a ratio of 100 to 1.

In some past climate changes warming has preceded increases in CO2 concentration, but with other events like the PETM a slow steady buildup in CO2 has resulted in Global Warming and climate change and a spike in temperatures of between 5-9 degrees C. It's a complex relationship where one forcing causes feedbacks that reinforce the process. We don't want to got too far to the positive forcing side where feedbacks begin to increase in strength.

Fossil fuels funding science???? Name one. It's simply not true.

There's a great book on this called The Climate Cover-Up by James Hoggan, if you're actually interested in the issue check it out.

Between 1998 and 2003 alone the fossil fuel sector spent $420 million on lobbying and funding for right wing think tanks and PR firms, $60 million from ExxonMobil alone.

Just a few of the think tanks ExxonMobil funds are The George C. Marshall Institute, the Cato Institute and the Heartland Institute. OPEC and the coal sector Western Fuels Association and the Southern Company also spend huge amounts on PR and lobbying worldwide.

A couple of other books you might want to check out are, Boiling Point by Ross Gelbspan and Censoring Science by Mark Bowen.
 

Praxius

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Dec 18, 2007
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Re: 2010, another year of extreme coral bleaching

Hansen is doing science not spin, which is why contrarians like you find him so threatening.

So tell me..... what is Science?

I thought one had to have a hypothesis, formulate a means of physically testing that hypothesis, repeat the end results in a satisfactory ratio of success, be able to repeat it to others so they can see for themselves...... and should stand up to testing and questioning in order to hold any validity to the hypothesis/testing.

Yet this clownboy has been quoted as wanting it to be a criminal offense if anybody questioned his findings and so-called results, especially those in the fossil fuel industry (examples to be made out of)...... why is he so defensive and why does he have such an issue with people putting his beliefs to the test, like a scientist should??

I remember when David Suzuki jumped on board with Global Warming and the horrible effects humanity is having on the planet.... he was being interviewed by someone on a radio show and they asked him some pretty generic and obvious questions many have about Global Warming and David went on the defensive, he flipped out and basically implied that anybody who doesn't believe Global Warming is happening right now and anybody who even asks a question about GW are total morons and are only trying to cloud the debate further.

Seriously, why couldn't he just answer the questions without flying off the handle?

People like him and this Hansen are only threatening in that because they "Act" like what they sh*t is pure gold for all to grab and worship...... that there are dumb people out there who are so paranoid and so gullible that they'll actually believe what they're being fed without actually looking to see if what they're eating is moldy and full of ecol i.

They claim to be scientists, but when they're put to the test or their claims are questioned, they act like a petty religious extremist thug pointing their finger and screaming "WITCH!"

Is it any wonder you have a Klingon as a avatar, this is more science fiction than science fact.

Oh how witty of you. :roll:

I didn't waste my time reading all this but there's a few points I'll respond to.
And that's why your argument will continue to be flawed and wrong..... because you can't be bothered to read information properly, you just read one or two lines and then assume the rest.

It's not my fault you're too damn lazy.

First off beginning a switch right now to a less carbon intensive energy model will have dramatic effects in the future. The estimated cost is about 1% a year of GDP which compares to the 20% of GDP a year in environmental damage which is estimated to be the cost within a few decades. Spending a bit now save a whole lot later. Even nuclear power would be better than building the 1,400 coal power plants planned worldwide for the next 20 years.
Yeah and I heard all of this crap back in the late 80's and saying that if we don't act now, by 1996 we'd all be dying off, coast lines would be flooded, most of the animals would be dead....... but these original arguments and studies the new GW generation is working from, it's already well too late.

Oh but some how it isn't..... somehow another 30-50 years was given to us..... just magically with no explanation....... now we have another 30-50 years to act and make a difference before everything they predicted would be happening now will really start to happen.

Yet in 30-50 years down the road when everything is still basically the same as it is today, people will forget all of this and start it all over again..... either that or everybody will figure out they were lied to, just as many around the world were telling them so........ then what?

Go find the old farts who made these predictions and throw them in jail?

They're already dead after living rich off their energy-saving light bulb and corn-fuel stocks..... the perk of using a prediction beyond your life expectancy...... if it turns out wrong, you won't be around to face the music.

And all those new species you seem to believe are sponataneously appearing are being discovered, not created. We're in a period of accelerated species extinction, not creation.
Sez you..... when something is discovered, off the bat you have no idea how long they have been around.

3 years?

50?

1,000 years?

Unless you can find remains of that species that date back to a particular time, nobody can determine if they're New to the planet or just new to our knowledge.

And unless you have any logical backing to support your claims that species can not be created at the same time other species become extinct, your above claims are also irrelevant.

Let me educate you a little bit....... when a particular habitat becomes void of one species, it of course leaves room for another species to take its place. It could very well be that an already existing species will migrate to this new location and then adapt to live in this new location.... which over a period of time, will end up creating a new species, while the original species still exists where they originated from.

Take Polar Bears for example....... or take the fact that Polar Bears are now mixing with other bear species.

Bear shot in N.W.T. was grizzly-polar hybrid
CBC News - North - Bear shot in N.W.T. was grizzly-polar hybrid

^ Species evolve and adapt in a number of ways and through eons of numerous examples, when species leave the planet and no long exist, more species will come and take their place.

The Dinosaurs, the Ice Age...... Look through history and see exactly how many animals used to live on this planet that no longer do today...... and then look at the ones that live on this planet today and see how long they lived here....... you'll notice that all the species on this planet didn't just appear all at once and we're just slowly having them all die off.

Maybe we are going through another mass extinction.

The last mass extinction was back in the day of knights and kings..... when the planet lost the Elves, Dragons, Orcs, Goblins, Griffins, Trolls, Wizards, Witches, Vampires, Werewolves, Zombies and Pixies....... we were lucky that the Dwarfs survived.

But life goes on.
 

Skatchie

Time Out
Sep 24, 2010
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Assiniboia
Re: 2010, another year of extreme coral bleaching

See, again, we're at the whole science debate. You know what science is? It's examining every possible issue and coming to the most logical conclusion. It's never 100%. The problem with the GW science is that it's not science at all. They have made up their minds beforehand and knowingly manipulated the data to make it look like they wanted it. They lost all academic credibility when they don't allow opposing view points. They think they can dictate what the science is. That's the opposite of science.