Obama - What is your opinion so far on his Presidency

[captain morgan]

Fair maybe, but it would probably put the $1000 a year guy out of business. :smile:

But "fair" though, right?

 

[JLM]

But "fair" though, right?

Yep a very fair way to ensure he won't be paying ANY taxes next year.

 

[captain morgan]

JLM,

There are all kinds of real life examples of companies that went titters because they were unable to manage the tax burden. Regardless if it the guy that makes $1000 or $10 billion, if the hue and cry is for "fairness" in the tax system, then one flat tax rate for all is "fair"

If you prefer to have a progressive floating rate, that's fine, but don't tell me that it is "fair" and especially don't sell me that tired old line that "corps ought to pay their fair share"... They are paying more than what is a dictionary-definition of "fair".

 

[JLM]

JLM,

There are all kinds of real life examples of companies that went titters because they were unable to manage the tax burden. Regardless if it the guy that makes $1000 or $10 billion, if the hue and cry is for "fairness" in the tax system, then one flat tax rate for all is "fair"

If you prefer to have a progressive floating rate, that's fine, but don't tell me that it is "fair" and especially don't sell me that tired old line that "corps ought to pay their fair share"... They are paying more than what is a dictionary-definition of "fair".

Fairness depends on the system you're using- if it's to be equal %age then yes it's fair. It can also be argued that the system laid out in post 475 is fair. It all depends on what you are trying to achieve I guess.

 

[ironsides]

Here is what happens when the Government taxes too much........

Tax System Explained In Beer:lol:

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100.
If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:
The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.
So, that's what they decided to do.
The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement,
until one day, the owner threw them a curve.
'Since you are all such good customers,' he said, 'I'm going to reduce the cost of your
daily beer by $20.' Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.
The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes. So the first four men
were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men? The
paying customers?
How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his 'fair share?'
They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from
everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to
drink his beer.
So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the
same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.
And so the fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings)
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33% savings).
The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28% savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 ( 22% savings).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).
Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free.
But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.
'I only got a dollar out of the $ 20,' declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man,'
but he got $10!'
'Yeah, that's right,' exclaimed the fifth man. 'I only saved a Dollar, too. It's unfair that he
got ten times more than I!'
'That's true!!' shouted the seventh man. 'Why should he get $10 back when I got only
two? The wealthy get all the breaks!'
'Wait a minute,' yelled the first four men in unison. 'We didn't get anything at all. The
system exploits the poor!'
The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.
The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had
beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something
important. They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!
And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, this is how our tax system
works.
The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction.
Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up
anymore.
In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.
David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D.
Professor of Economics

Now your talking, beer could save us. Getting people to attend events like this and spend money, on what some say, Beer of course.

Beer is good for you.

http://www.brackenspub.com/beer.swf


:lol::lol:

 

[YukonJack]

American Thinker: Obama Flunks the Leadership Test

Absolutely the best, documented, evaluation of Obama.

 

[captain morgan]

Fairness depends on the system you're using- if it's to be equal %age then yes it's fair. It can also be argued that the system laid out in post 475 is fair. It all depends on what you are trying to achieve I guess.

Sorry JLM, but "fairness" doesn't depend on certain variables or what the goal is. In the end, a fair system would treat everyone equally. There would be one tax rate for all that would fund the basics of government and the rest would hinge on a consumption tax (teh more stuff you buy, the more tax dollars you contribute).

Post 475 illustrates the folly and the pitfalls of a progressive tax system especially when the population maintains an air of entitlement within the system.

 

[JLM]

Sorry JLM, but "fairness" doesn't depend on certain variables or what the goal is. In the end, a fair system would treat everyone equally. There would be one tax rate for all that would fund the basics of government and the rest would hinge on a consumption tax (teh more stuff you buy, the more tax dollars you contribute).

Post 475 illustrates the folly and the pitfalls of a progressive tax system especially when the population maintains an air of entitlement within the system.

Treating everyone equally is a pretty tall order. First off no two people are equal. Everyone has different needs. Take two farmers, one is working a section in the Fraser Valley and has 1000 milk cows, the second is working a rock bound section that supports 20 goats- would an equal tax %age be treating them equally?

 

[captain morgan]

Well, look at the actual dollar amounts contributed. If the dairy farmer is earning more, then they will pay a higher dollar amount as compared to the other.

In terms of fairness, that is also a 2-way street. The dairy farmer bought 1000 milk cows, the buildings & equipment and paid taxes on all of those. Also, factor in that the dairy farmer has also risked alot of money in securing all of these assets.
The gent with the 20 goats also paid taxes on his purchases, but significantly less.

 

[ironsides]

Obama and his gang Lied


Jack Cafferty Rips Obama on Failed Openness Pledge: 'Just Another Lie Told for Political Expediency'

YouTube - Jack Cafferty Rips Obama on Failed Openness Pledge: 'Just Another Lie Told for Political Expediency'

 

[Avro]

I have a better Idea.

Cut military spending by half, recall the imperial army and put the savings towards the deficit....US only.

Have a tax system that reduces the gap between the rich and poor and use that income to improve the lives of the middle and lower class...ie health care, education.

Eliminate all and every loop hole by introducing a flat tax but one based on income and allowing the first 10,000 to 15,000 be tax free.

Introduce a carbon tax to lower emissions and create a new energy sector by using revenues for R&D into green tech.

In Canada we should be implementing a user fee for health services and expanding health care to cover drugs and home care. We should also allow competition within the system to reduce costs.

Just off the top of my head.....;-)

 

[TenPenny]

Have a tax system that reduces the gap between the rich and poor and use that income to improve the lives of the middle and lower class...ie health care, education.

In other words, penalize the people who have worked hard to get 'rich', and reward those who haven't.

That sounds fair to me.

 

[Avro]

In other words, penalize the people who have worked hard to get 'rich', and reward those who haven't.

That sounds fair to me.

Working hard does not nessessarily mean success and success does not mean you worked hard.

 

[Tonington]

Wow.. This is by far and away the biggest crock of sh*t that I've ever come across...

Where is the trickle down?

Although (in your mind) the "stated" purpose for the tax cuts were not for "productivity gains", they were (apparently) very effective in providing such...

Productivity can be gained by downsizing. Replace people with technology. Again, that fails the "trickle down test".

Don't waste anymore of my time looking to get schooled.

Good luck.. You'll damn well need it

You're flat out delusional. I'd wish you good luck, but luck has nothing to do with it.

Working hard does not nessessarily mean success and success does not mean you worked hard.

Yep. Also known as the Meritocracy myth. Class mobility, or rather immobility is well known. The factors stacking up against someone coming from the lower class are well documented, while the privilege of coming from a upper class loads the dice significantly.

 

[mentalfloss]

Not sure what everyone feels about this, but...

US prepares to approve $60bn arms deal with Saudi Arabia | World news | The Guardian

Congress has a history of being difficult about Saudi Arabia, passing legislation in 1986 to block sales of missiles and missile launchers approved by President Ronald Reagan. The deal finally went through only after Reagan was forced to withdraw Stinger missiles from the package.


In 1990, the administration of George H Bush planned to send Saudi Arabia $20bn in arms but opposition from Congress saw this cut down to $7bn.

 

[ironsides]

In other words, penalize the people who have worked hard to get 'rich', and reward those who haven't.

That sounds fair to me.

Great answer.

Just like the grasshopper and the ant. :smile:
Bluecat Blog: Aesop's The Ant and the Grasshopper. A Conservative Version vs. a Liberal, Progressive Version

Not sure what everyone feels about this, but...

US prepares to approve $60bn arms deal with Saudi Arabia | World news | The Guardian

Brings in the dollars, oil gold etc. Keeps our people working and off the backs of the Goverment.

 

[JLM]

Working hard does not nessessarily mean success and success does not mean you worked hard.

But they are damn good indicators and if not working hard, definitely working smart. :smile:

 

[Avro]

But they are damn good indicators and if not working hard, definitely working smart. :smile:

Are they?

The real reason people defend the ultra rich is they think by some delusional dream some capitalists planted in their head that they to can become ultra rich if they just worked a little harder and stayed a bit longer at work.

It's BS.

Meanwhile the middle class shrinks, the lower class grows and the rich get richer.:roll:

It's actually kind of funny.:lol:

Not sure what everyone feels about this, but...

US prepares to approve $60bn arms deal with Saudi Arabia | World news | The Guardian

:lol:

....and some think Obama is different than Bush.

One in the same.:lol:

Brings in the dollars, oil gold etc. Keeps our people working and off the backs of the Goverment.

Sell some to Iran then.:lol:

 

[ironsides]

Are they?

The real reason people defend the ultra rich is they think by some delusional dream some capitalists planted in their head that they to can become ultra rich if they just worked a little harder and stayed a bit longer at work.

It's BS.


Sell some to Iran then.:lol:

It can happen, does happen, just takes dedication and hard work, no BS. :smile:

We did remember.

 

[Avro]

It can happen, does happen, just takes dedication and hard work, no BS. :smile:

It can, for one out of every 1000 or so....mostly from luck.

I paid more than you make in tax last year.

Won't hear me whining about it.:lol:

Btw, I know you sold weapons to Iran....how did that go for ya?:lol:

Hey, they need some nukes, perhaps you can unload some.