Anti_Islam protests victory for extremists?

[CDNBear]

I said that understanding Hamas and Hezbollah involves knowing more than what you posted. I made no comments about your abilities.

While insinuating Goober and anyone else that agrees with him, knew nothing more then what western media has spoon fed him.

A major difference between us, is that I have no problem condemning all atrocities, crimes against humanity and war crimes.

That's a lie...

Back in 2002-2003, when US leaders were priming us for war against Iraq with claims about Iraq's WMD stockpiles (false), links to the events of 9/11 (false) and genocide (false), a genocidal war was going on in the Democratic Republic of Congo.

There most certainly was a genocidal campaign going on in Iraq, but your ideological fueled hate for all things US, forces you to ignore things.

This has been shown in countless threads, and posts. You ignore what you don't like or doesn't support your ideology. Even when it means ignoring documented genocide, to support a campaign against an entity you don't like, like the US or Israel.

You condemn some atrocities, war crimes, and either support or ignore others. I'm consistent. You aren't.

I just proved, beyond a shadow of doubt, that that is also a lie.

I also support being fully informed about these conflicts, not selective truths.

I just proved that to be a lie too.

As far as taking sides regarding this proposed New York Islamic community center, you are with the religiously intolerant bigots or against them.

Hey, you wouldn't GW Bushes alter ego would you?

I support those who have America's constitution behind them which guarantees religious rights, freedoms and liberties. I oppose allowing a mob of religiously intolerant bigots from restricting people's rights and freedoms.

So you support one Constitutional amendment, while negating another and trying to take away another groups Constitutional right, by trying to dishonestly shame them into silence.

Good to know you're so consistent.

Even Canada has a social welfare program. Does that mean Canada is bad?

Way to dodge the point mentalfloss...

Careful, your ideology is starting to show.

It doesn't matter what "good" programs a gov't has, once you add a written policy of the termination of another country and it's citizens to your policy book. You fore go any respect as a benevolent entity. Something eao has had great difficulty understand for many years, while crying that he's really a humanitarian.

 

[YukonJack]

earth_as_one:

"As far as taking sides regarding this proposed New York Islamic community center, you are with the intolerant terrorist sympathizers or against them."

Fixed it for you.

 

[mentalfloss]

Careful, your ideology is starting to show.

All I was trying to show you was that you can't just equate these groups with each other based on a whim. And more importantly, you can't toss off an entire group of people on a whim either.

That isn't to say that these groups cannot be primarily terrorist, but don't paint me as sympathetic to any cause in that vein, simply because I want to be more educated before I say something.

And please stop with the Ad Hominem slander about ideologies or heroes or whatever. Believe it or not, my opinion can be changed as long as the discourse is rational and collected. That's not directed to you specifically, because there are a lot of agitators on this forum who only sporadically post their piecemeal blips without any foundation. Please see the post above mine as an example.

 

[CDNBear]

All I was trying to show you was that you can't just equate these groups with each other based on a whim.

I don't. I have researched Hamas and Hezbollah, back to their roots.

And more importantly, you can't toss off an entire group of people on a whim either.

I toss off no one. I do however view Hamas and Hezbollah as terrorist groups, because they have a stated genocidal policy.

That isn't to say that these groups cannot be primarily terrorist, but don't paint me as sympathetic to any cause in that vein, simply because I want to be more educated before I say something.

What more do you need to know then a their stated policy of genocide?

It's right there at their own websites. There's no argument about the fact that the Joos must die.

And please stop with the Ad Hominem slander about ideologies or heroes or whatever.

:roll: Hey, people use ideologies all the time, it's human nature. Some people wear them on their sleeve, others try and hide what they really feel, so they can look superior, while others like eao hide behind the self adorned label of humanitarian, while showing a complicit willingness to ignore recorded history, evidence, and the ties Hamas and the Hezbollah have all the way back to Nazi Germany.

If you want to debate whether having a written policy of genocide makes a gov't bad or not, feel free. My single and only reply would be, yes, if a gov't has a written policy advocating the destruction of a specified nation and its inhabitants, I don't give a rats ass what their social welfare program looks like.

When I see people start to use an ideology to filter their intake of data, I begin to lose respect. No one has to agree with me. But I ask for the simplest thing, honest objectivity, nothing more, nothing less.

Believe it or not, my opinion can be changed as long as the discourse is rational and collected.

It doesn't get more rational or collected then reading their websites.

That's not directed to you specifically, because there are a lot of agitators on this forum who only sporadically post their ideas piecemeal.

I hold nothing back.

Here is another one for JBeee and like minded people who just love Hamas to celebrate:roll::roll:
Four Israelis killed in shooting attack near Hebron - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News

And an imam who will not say anything against Hamas

That's what happens when Israel removes road blocks.

 

[Goober]

All I was trying to show you was that you can't just equate these groups with each other based on a whim. And more importantly, you can't toss off an entire group of people on a whim either.

That isn't to say that these groups cannot be primarily terrorist, but don't paint me as sympathetic to any cause in that vein, simply because I want to be more educated before I say something.

And please stop with the Ad Hominem slander about ideologies or heroes or whatever. Believe it or not, my opinion can be changed as long as the discourse is rational and collected. That's not directed to you specifically, because there are a lot of agitators on this forum who only sporadically post their piecemeal blips without any foundation. Please see the post above mine as an example.

I can see that you wish to become more informed regarding Hamas and Hezbollah - What I find though is that you as an intelligent person has really no opinion on these groups as of yet.
That is what I find surprising That is not intended in any way as an insult or a slur on your character, intelligence or knowledge.

But it is surprising in the sense that either group has been widely written about for decades. Thats all.

 

[mentalfloss]

I can see that you wish to become more informed regarding Hamas and Hezbollah - What I find though is that you as an intelligent person has really no opinion on these groups as of yet.
That is what I find surprising That is not intended in any way as an insult or a slur on your character, intelligence or knowledge.

But it is surprising in the sense that either group has been widely written about for decades. Thats all.

I haven't been one to be too involved in 'the news' until fairly recently. I'm sure I've just set myself up now for an easy attack, lol. But yea, I can see how these groups can be pretty much standard-fare terrorism. I still don't condemn the originator of the mosque project though, or think it's in bad taste or believe that he's hiding something.

 

[Goober]

I said that understanding Hamas and Hezbollah involves knowing more than what you posted. I made no comments about your abilities.

I believe in non-violence, peace, justice and freedom. Unlike you, I do not support any violence, wars, injustices or oppression. I support the right of innocent civilians to live in peace on all sides of this conflict. I also support being fully informed about these conflicts, not selective truths.

As far as taking sides regarding this proposed New York Islamic community center, you are with the religiously intolerant bigots or against them. I support those who have America's constitution behind them which guarantees religious rights, freedoms and liberties. I oppose allowing a mob of religiously intolerant bigots from restricting people's rights and freedoms.

Yesterday Hamas murdered 4 civilians - 2 men - 2 women - 1 was pregnant - so to me that makes 5 as she was carrying to term in all probability.

You condemn Israel repeatedly - Never a word of anything they do that is positive to you. That in itself is a telling point concerning your fair mindedness and impartiality.


I am against a Mosque so close to the 911 site because of the harm as we can see that has arisen from that decision

Now we see that as others and I have mentioned an Interfaith prayer room may be added - Good decision

I see that the Imam supports the State of Israel & condemns killings, suicide bombers and so on yet has "No Comment" on 2 Terror Groups that stand in the way of peace - I also include Israel as standing in the way as well.

For a Religious man such as himself to not condemn these Terror groups does not support his statements of non violence. It is all or none - something you again fail to understand. But then your own bias and lack of tolerance would overlook this critical, and I say critical point.

He can travel the world stating he supports the State of Israel, condemns killings yet by not condemning all that kill his words are just that - words. Nothing more, nothing less

I think and have stated repeatedly that just because you have a right to do something does not always mean it is right - Not only in this case but i am sure we could identify many such cases and examples.

Lastly - Now to you I am religious Bigot - Really - Just a take off on GW Bush's line of - You are either with us or against us.

Now that again demonstrates clearly your own lack of tolerance and bias bordering on or blatant hate towards Isreal.

You would not recognize tolerance if it jumped up and nipped you on the behind. I am trying to be rather nice and not insulting toward you as we had discussions that were not at all friendly to say the least.

I haven't been one to be too involved in 'the news' until fairly recently. I'm sure I've just set myself up now for an easy attack, lol. But yea, I can see how these groups can be pretty much standard-fare terrorism. I still don't condemn the originator of the mosque project though, or think it's in bad taste or believe that he's hiding something.

You will not get any atacks for me on this - I can wait for you to make up your mind - But i would ask that as it is critical to the discussion that you move it up the research line.

Only fair and reasonable to wait for a person to learn before they commit themsleves to a position.

 

[earth_as_one]

EAO - Without doubt as you state - "You are consistent" in blindly supporting terror groups and being completely Anti-Jew-Israel -
Yep, you are consistent alright

What a ridiculous conclusion. Since I'm not posting pro-Israel Islamaphobic crap like you, I must be blinding supporting terror groups and anti-Jew-Israel. Any rational person can see clearly who is spouting hate and intolerance in support of oppression and injustice in this thread and who isn't.

I have never supported any violent group in my life. The closest I have come is making charitable donations to Canadian war veterans.

I am a non-violent, agnostic, pacifist. I consider everyone equal regardless of race, religion, sex, sexual orientation, religion...

Regarding the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, I equally condemn both Israeli and Palestinian war criminals. If any Israeli or Palestinian war criminals set foot in Canada I support holding them accountable for their actions to the full extent of the law. I am against shipping arms to this region by anyone, including both the US and Iran.

I condemn Hamas's recent attack on the illegal outpost, built in violation of Israeli laws, on land Israel acquired through war.

I condemn the violence which preceded this event:
UK Indymedia - This Week in Palestine- Week 34 2010
World | This Week in Palestine- Week 33 2010
UK Indymedia - This Week in Palestine- Week 32 2010
World | This Week in Palestine -Week 31 2009
UK Indymedia - This Week in Palestine- Week 30 2010
and so on

I condemn the subsequent Israeli settler violence against innocent Palestinian civilians which followed the Hamas attack:

50 settlers attack Palestinian family following Hebron shooting; Israeli soldiers stand and watch | International Solidarity Movement

50 settlers attack Palestinian family following Hebron shooting; Israeli soldiers stand and watch

Just after midday a large group of settlers from an illegal outpost near to where four Israeli settlers where shot and killed last night, carried out an attack on an innocent Palestinian family.

At about 12.30 between 50 and 70 Israeli settlers emerged from the Givat Gal outpost near the illegal settlement of Kiryat Arba and came down the hill towards a Palestinian home.

Palestinian Younis Idris and his large family, including 8 children, watched as the settlers hurled rocks at the house, smashing four windows. A family member told an employee of the Israeli human rights group B’Tselem that the settlers had tried unsuccessfully to open the door of the house.

They also knocked over and smashed a number of ceramic plant pots outside the family home and then set fire to the grass outside the house.

The family told ISM activists that Israeli soldiers were present during the attack but did nothing to prevent it...
50 settlers attack Palestinian family following Hebron shooting; Israeli soldiers stand and watch | International Solidarity Movement

Regarding Zionist State of Israel, I am against this nation's violations of international laws, treaties and conventions, their ethnic cleansing activities, collective punishment of millions of innocent civilians and their domestic laws which discriminate on the basis of religion.

I am not against Israelis as a whole, only Israelis who commit war crimes or crimes against humanity. I would support a Secular State of Israel where all citizens are free and equal regardless of race or religion.

Within Israel, I agree with the goals and objectives of a number Israel Human Rights organizations:

About_B'Tselem

B'TSELEM - The Israeli Information Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories was established in 1989 by a group of prominent academics, attorneys, journalists, and Knesset members. It endeavors to document and educate the Israeli public and policymakers about human rights violations in the Occupied Territories, combat the phenomenon of denial prevalent among the Israeli public, and help create a human rights culture in Israel....
About_B'Tselem

I also agree with this Israeli group:
http://www.amnesty.org.il/?CategoryID=153&ArticleID=351

About Amnesty International Israel
The Israeli Section of Amnesty International was established in 1964, making it one of the oldest branches of the movement. In recent years, the Israeli Section has expanded tremendously and our membership continues to increase. Although this Section’s activities are varied, we focus on protecting human rights, taking action in support of victims of human rights violations and promoting the awareness of human rights in Israeli society. Currently, we are conducting two exciting campaigns concentrating on rights of the African refugees’ in Israel, and housing rights for the Palestinian community within Israel....
About Amnesty International - Israel

Regarding Palestinians, I don't support Hamas, Fatah or any militant group. I am against using violence except in immediate self defense to a violent attack. IMO, Hamas is more religious, charitable and intolerant than Fatah. Fatah's leaders are more selfish and corrupt than Hamas. Hamas has a much higher level of integrity than Fatah and as far as I know Hamas has never broken an agreement first.

Palestinians themselves are a fairly diverse group. Not all of them support violent resistance. Some Palestinians use non-violent methods in the struggle for freedom and justice. For example:

The International Solidarity Movement (ISM)
About ISM | International Solidarity Movement

The International Solidarity Movement (ISM) is a Palestinian-led movement committed to resisting the Israeli apartheid in Palestine by using nonviolent, direct-action methods and principles. Founded by a small group of primarily Palestinian and Israeli activists in August, 2001, ISM aims to support and strengthen the Palestinian popular resistance by providing the Palestinian people with two resources, international solidarity and an international voice with which to nonviolently resist an overwhelming military occupation force.
About ISM | International Solidarity Movement

Palestinian non-violence in action:
bilin-village.org | Discover Bil'in

Bil’in is a Palestinian village that is struggling to exist. It is fighting to safeguard its land, its olive trees, its resources… its liberty.
By annexing close to 60% of Bil’in land for Israeli settlements and the construction of Israel’s separation wall, the state of Israel is strangling the village. Every day it destroys a bit more, creating an open air prison for Bil’in’s inhabitants.
Supported by Israeli and international activists, Bil’in residents peacefully demonstrate every Friday in front of the “work-site of shame”. And every Friday the Israeli army responds with violence, both physically and psychologically.
Bil’in residents have continued to withstand these injustices despite the frequent night raids of Israeli soldiers in the town followed by an increasing number of arrests of inhabitants and of activists.
bilin-village.org | Discover Bil'in

I support everyone getting an informed opinion regarding this conflict:
If Americans Knew - what every American needs to know about Israel/Palestine

Jews are also a fairly diverse group. Not all of them support Israeli war crimes or crimes against humanity. I agree with the goals and objectives of these Jewish groups:

Jews for Justice for Palestinians
Jews for Justice for Palestinians

Jews for Justice for Palestinians is a network of Jews who are British or live in Britain, practising and secular, Zionist and not. We oppose Israeli policies that undermine the livelihoods, human, civil and political rights of the Palestinian people.

We support the right of Israelis to live in freedom and security within Israel’s 1967 borders.

As well as organizing to ensure that Jewish opinions critical of Israeli policy are heard in Britain, we extend support to Palestinians trapped in the spiral of violence and repression. We believe that such actions are important in countering antisemitism and the claim that opposition to Israel’s destructive policies is itself antisemitic.
About Us | Jews for Justice for Palestinians

Jews Against the Occupation

Jews Against the Occupation is an organization of progressive, secular and religious Jews of all ages throughout the New York City area advocating peace through justice for Palestine and Israel.
Jews Against the Occupation

Jewish Voice for Peace

Jewish Voice for Peace is a diverse and democratic community of activists inspired by Jewish tradition to work together for peace, social justice, and human rights. We support the aspirations of Israelis and Palestinians for security and self-determination.
JVP Mission Statement | Jewish Voice for Peace

Some Jews are even against Zionism:
http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/

I can't say I agree with everything this last group says, but their viewpoint is worth considering... for example, I would support Zionism, if it was fair and just.

 

[Goober]

What a ridiculous conclusion. Since I'm not posting pro-Israel Islamaphobic crap like you, I must be blinding supporting terror groups and anti-Jew-Israel. Any rational person can see clearly who is spouting hate and intolerance in support of oppression and injustice in this thread and who isn't.

I have never supported any violent group in my life. The closest I have come is making charitable donations to Canadian war veterans.

I am a non-violent, agnostic, pacifist. I consider everyone equal regardless of race, religion, sex, sexual orientation, religion...

Regarding the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, I equally condemn both Israeli and Palestinian war criminals. If any Israeli or Palestinian war criminals set foot in Canada I support holding them accountable for their actions to the full extent of the law. I am against shipping arms to this region by anyone, including both the US and Iran.

I condemn Hamas's recent attack on the illegal outpost, built in violation of Israeli laws, on land Israel acquired through war.

I condemn the violence which preceded this event:
UK Indymedia - This Week in Palestine- Week 34 2010
World | This Week in Palestine- Week 33 2010
UK Indymedia - This Week in Palestine- Week 32 2010
World | This Week in Palestine -Week 31 2009
UK Indymedia - This Week in Palestine- Week 30 2010
and so on

I condemn the subsequent Israeli settler violence against innocent Palestinian civilians which followed the Hamas attack:

50 settlers attack Palestinian family following Hebron shooting; Israeli soldiers stand and watch | International Solidarity Movement
Regarding Zionist State of Israel, I am against this nation's violations of international laws, treaties and conventions, their ethnic cleansing activities, collective punishment of millions of innocent civilians and their domestic laws which discriminate on the basis of religion.

I am not against Israelis as a whole, only Israelis who commit war crimes or crimes against humanity. I would support a Secular State of Israel where all citizens are free and equal regardless of race or religion.

Within Israel, I agree with the goals and objectives of a number Israel Human Rights organizations:

About_B'Tselem
I also agree with this Israeli group:
http://www.amnesty.org.il/?CategoryID=153&ArticleID=351
Regarding Palestinians, I don't support Hamas, Fatah or any militant group. I am against using violence except in immediate self defense to a violent attack. IMO, Hamas is more religious, charitable and intolerant than Fatah. Fatah's leaders are more selfish and corrupt than Hamas. Hamas has a much higher level of integrity than Fatah and as far as I know Hamas has never broken an agreement first.

Palestinians themselves are a fairly diverse group. Not all of them support violent resistance. Some Palestinians use non-violent methods in the struggle for freedom and justice. For example:

The International Solidarity Movement (ISM)
About ISM | International Solidarity Movement
Palestinian non-violence in action:
bilin-village.org | Discover Bil'in
I support everyone getting an informed opinion regarding this conflict:
If Americans Knew - what every American needs to know about Israel/Palestine

Jews are also a fairly diverse group. Not all of them support Israeli war crimes or crimes against humanity. I agree with the goals and objectives of these Jewish groups:

Jews for Justice for Palestinians
Jews for Justice for Palestinians
Jews Against the Occupation
Jewish Voice for Peace
Some Jews are even against Zionism:
True Torah Jews Against Zionism

I can't say I agree with everything this last group says, but their viewpoint is worth considering... for example, I would support Zionism, if it was fair and just.

I see the cut and paste demon has once again risen to drive the rest of us round then bend.

 

[CDNBear]

I also include Israel as standing in the way as well.

Most of us do Goober, but that doesn't sit well with eao. We must all be seething Israeli apologists if we don't ignore law, reality, fact and so on, and adopt his perfect view of Israel.[/QUOTE]

What a ridiculous conclusion. Since I'm not posting pro-Israel Islamaphobic crap like you, I must be blinding supporting terror groups and anti-Jew-Israel.

Of course not. You support them by trying to ignore and obfuscate the fact that they have a stated policy of genocide. Your posts are filled with dishonesty, time and time again. Your posts have been proven wrong, time and time again. You have presented challenges to your detractors, time and time again, that have been met, time and time again, and then ignored the proof you demanded, time and time again, so you could adhere to your beliefs.

That is the very definition of a bigot eao.

Any rational person can see clearly who is spouting hate and intolerance in support of oppression and injustice in this thread and who isn't.

Absolutely. Why do you think you stand alone out here? Why did Goober, your one time comrade and defender stop defending you?

I have never supported any violent group in my life.

I say lying about what Hamas and Hezbollah really are, while ignoring their policy of genocide, and trying to convince people that they are just charities and good duly elected gov't, is support eao.

The closest I have come is making charitable donations to Canadian war veterans.

I'd thank you, but I'm just a pretender right?

I am a non-violent, agnostic, pacifist. I consider everyone equal regardless of race, religion, sex, sexual orientation, religion...

Unless they're Israeli or American.

Regarding the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, I equally condemn both Israeli and Palestinian war criminals.

No you don't.

If any Israeli or Palestinian war criminals set foot in Canada I support holding them accountable for their actions to the full extent of the law.

I call BS. I can see it now. "He was a Hamas freedom fighter" would be your battle cry.

I am against shipping arms to this region by anyone, including both the US and Iran.

While you condemn Israel for trying to stop arms from getting to a terrorist group.

I condemn Hamas's recent attack on the illegal outpost, built in violation of Israeli laws, on land Israel acquired through war.

Ahhhh, let me bask in that bright shiny ideology as it shines through...

I condemn the Hamas terrorist attack oand war crime, committed against civilians.

The fact that I'm mor humanitarian then you, says I don't care where it occurred. You do, pointing out is who you lower yourself.

I condemn the violence which preceded this event:
UK Indymedia - This Week in Palestine- Week 34 2010
World | This Week in Palestine- Week 33 2010
UK Indymedia - This Week in Palestine- Week 32 2010
World | This Week in Palestine -Week 31 2009
UK Indymedia - This Week in Palestine- Week 30 2010
and so on

Why is unsupported news at a "indy news blog" written by the founder of ISM (a proven front for terrorist fund raising) more reliable then an Israeli daily pr CAMERA, that doesn't hide behind internet anonymity laws?

I condemn the subsequent Israeli settler violence against innocent Palestinian civilians which followed the Hamas attack:

So do I, but you won't acknowledge that.

Regarding Zionist State of Israel, I am against this nation's violations of international laws, treaties and conventions, their ethnic cleansing activities, collective punishment of millions of innocent civilians and their domestic laws which discriminate on the basis of religion.

So am I, but I have to ask, why do you ignore the ethnic cleansing in Iraq committed by Hussein?

I am not against Israelis as a whole, only Israelis who commit war crimes or crimes against humanity.

But you use a manipulated version of the law to formulate that opinion, even after I showed you how your source interpreted it incorrectly. That again, is how a bigot works. They ignore proof that would make their beliefs wrong.

I would support a Secular State of Israel where all citizens are free and equal regardless of race or religion.

Where Joos were the minority and given the stated policy of genocide, that would mean what exactly?

You condemn Israel, using false claims, they are the only nation in the region, with a human rights policy. They aren't perfect, but Arabs and Palestinians are fleeing to Israel. What does that tell you?

Regarding Palestinians, I don't support Hamas, Fatah or any militant group.

You just defend them, and then try and whitewash them. Ya, we've seen your double talk before eao.

I am against using violence except in immediate self defense to a violent attack. IMO, Hamas is more religious, charitable and intolerant than Fatah. Fatah's leaders are more selfish and corrupt than Hamas. Hamas has a much higher level of integrity than Fatah and as far as I know Hamas has never broken an agreement first.

As far as you know? We've shown you dozens of incidents, you simply ignore it to keep you view of Israel alive. Again, a true definition of bigotry.

Palestinians themselves are a fairly diverse group. Not all of them support violent resistance. Some Palestinians use non-violent methods in the struggle for freedom and justice. For example:

The International Solidarity Movement (ISM)
About ISM | International Solidarity Movement
Palestinian non-violence in action:
bilin-village.org | Discover Bil'in

Again trying to paint a group banned from fund raising in how many countries because it raises funds directly for a known terrorist group?

I support everyone getting an informed opinion regarding this conflict:

You don't support yourself?

Jews are also a fairly diverse group. Not all of them support Israeli war crimes or crimes against humanity. I agree with the goals and objectives of these Jewish groups:

The only good Joo, is one that supports you, or has been killed by the freedom fighters of Hamas?

 

[ironsides]

What a ridiculous conclusion. Since I'm not posting pro-Israel Islamaphobic crap like you, I must be blinding supporting terror groups and anti-Jew-Israel. Any rational person can see clearly who is spouting hate and intolerance in support of oppression and injustice in this thread and who isn't.

Your writings as well as sources do not support you supporting Israel under any circumstances. We have never heard anything good from you that Israel has done. For some reason you refuse to comprehend that Israel cannot afford to lose anything. They do not have the people to keep losing lives time and time again because you and your so called human rights organizations keep saying "give them back the land taken". They did twice, and nothing changed with the Palestinians, they just want Israel destroyed. Isarel has no choice, but what they are now doing.

 

[Avro]

Your writings as well as sources do not support you supporting Israel under any circumstances. We have never heard anything good from you that Israel has done. For some reason you refuse to comprehend that Israel cannot afford to lose anything. They do not have the people to keep losing lives time and time again because you and your so called human rights organizations keep saying "give them back the land taken". They did twice, and nothing changed with the Palestinians, they just want Israel destroyed. Isarel has no choice, but what they are now doing.

Pile of BS.:roll:

 

[Goober]

Pile of BS.:roll:

I believe the point he was maing was that EAO is Anti-Isreal.

 

[Avro]

I believe the point he was maing was that EAO is Anti-Isreal.

I know what his point is....thanks for having an astute grasp of the obvious.

 

[Goober]

I know what his point is....thanks for having an astute grasp of the obvious.

My aren't we knarly today - I am not the one who clearly pissed in your corn flakes.

 

[CDNBear]

Pile of BS.:roll:

Wow, what an enlightening rebuttal. Full of counter points and facts.

I'm in awe...:roll:

I know what his point is....thanks for having an astute grasp of the obvious.

He has a better grasp of how to debate then you. How's that for obvious?

My aren't we knarly today

Today?

Avro's who shtick is insult. If he can't cut and paste it, he just calls you names or slips in the slight racial slur. You should see him when he gets backed into a corner. He'll tell you to meet him at the local Timmies, fer a fight.

 

[mentalfloss]

So I did a little bit of reading to catch up on the Zionist movement. Also had some fun looking at the controversy over whether Bin Laden was funded by the CIA like the other Afghani freedom fighters were.

So, while I have a little understanding about the situation, here's my barely informed opinion on things. Take this as you will..

First, regarding the Palestinian conflict, Israel should let it go. They're the stronger power, so they can show some humility and forget their ties to this 'sacred land'. I'm pretty sure, they can still lead completely fruitful and enjoyable lives, and will not be forsaken by God if they don't have complete control over the holy land. They weren't forsaken for 1300 years, and in that time both groups were in less conflict than they are now.

Obviously, Fatah and Hamas need to get their own conflict over with as well and that's just complicating things. Even if that conflict does get resolved, the Israelis should just stay out of it. Now that's my opinion, and before someone says "Joo hater", keep in mind it is definitely subject to change. My only foundation for that reasoning is simply picking the stronger state to practice some form of militant resistance.

Secondly, regarding the CIA's involvement, and the blowback - yea, they pretty much are responsible for funding freedom fighters. Whether one can specifically pinpoint Bin Laden receiving funds, the moguls are obviously keeping a tight lid, but I would reasonably suspect he did.

But it's not only the CIA's responsibility. The UK, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and China also had some involvement in basically funding these freedom fighters. All parties had good intentions, but probably the wrong methodology. Formally arming a number of different sects to combat the Soviet Union's communist influence resulted in this blowback, and is potentially the reason that terrorist groups now have enough resources and intelligence to use their might against the U.S.

And, now.. CDNBear can begin ripping this up, lol..

 

[CDNBear]

First, regarding the Palestinian conflict, Israel should let it go. They're the stronger power, so they can show some humility and forget their ties to this 'sacred land'. I'm pretty sure, they can still lead completely fruitful and enjoyable lives, and will not be forsaken by God if they don't have complete control over the holy land. They weren't forsaken for 1300 years, and in that time both groups were in less conflict than they are now.

We saw the other day what happens when Israel lets it go. Innocent civilians get killed by Hamas.

Letting go just isn't in the cards.

Obviously, Fatah and Hamas need to get their own conflict over with as well and that's just complicating things. Even if that conflict does get resolved, the Israelis should just stay out of it. Now that's my opinion, and before someone says "Joo hater", keep in mind it is definitely subject to change. My only foundation for that reasoning is simply picking the stronger state to practice some form of militant resistance.

Why would you be a Joo hater for believing that the conflict between Hamas and Fatah should be dealt with solely by them?

I agree with you.

But...

When I say stay out of it, I mean stay out of negotiations. Funding on the other hand is completely different and I support funding which ever side serves ones interest best.

Secondly, regarding the CIA's involvement, and the blowback - yea, they pretty much are responsible for funding freedom fighters. Whether one can specifically pinpoint Bin Laden receiving funds, the moguls are obviously keeping a tight lid, but I would reasonably suspect he did.

There's no doubt he was a CIA bag man. That's a fact.

But it's not only the CIA's responsibility. The UK, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and China also had some involvement in basically funding these freedom fighters. All parties had good intentions, but probably the wrong methodology. Formally arming a number of different sects to combat the Soviet Union's communist influence resulted in this blowback, and is potentially the reason that terrorist groups now have enough resources and intelligence to use their might against the U.S.

Can't argue with that logic.

And, now.. CDNBear can begin ripping this up, lol..

Rip up what? Fair and balanced thought, peppered with deductive reasoning and critical thought?

Why would I tear that up?

 

[Goober]

So I did a little bit of reading to catch up on the Zionist movement. Also had some fun looking at the controversy over whether Bin Laden was funded by the CIA like the other Afghani freedom fighters were.

So, while I have a little understanding about the situation, here's my barely informed opinion on things. Take this as you will..

First, regarding the Palestinian conflict, Israel should let it go. They're the stronger power, so they can show some humility and forget their ties to this 'sacred land'. I'm pretty sure, they can still lead completely fruitful and enjoyable lives, and will not be forsaken by God if they don't have complete control over the holy land. They weren't forsaken for 1300 years, and in that time both groups were in less conflict than they are now.

Obviously, Fatah and Hamas need to get their own conflict over with as well and that's just complicating things. Even if that conflict does get resolved, the Israelis should just stay out of it. Now that's my opinion, and before someone says "Joo hater", keep in mind it is definitely subject to change. My only foundation for that reasoning is simply picking the stronger state to practice some form of militant resistance.

Secondly, regarding the CIA's involvement, and the blowback - yea, they pretty much are responsible for funding freedom fighters. Whether one can specifically pinpoint Bin Laden receiving funds, the moguls are obviously keeping a tight lid, but I would reasonably suspect he did.

But it's not only the CIA's responsibility. The UK, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and China also had some involvement in basically funding these freedom fighters. All parties had good intentions, but probably the wrong methodology. Formally arming a number of different sects to combat the Soviet Union's communist influence resulted in this blowback, and is potentially the reason that terrorist groups now have enough resources and intelligence to use their might against the U.S.

And, now.. CDNBear can begin ripping this up, lol..

Mentalfloss - I do like the handle -

No - Bear got there first - Site is blocked at my work now - damm it

How does Israel let go - let go of what - land for peace- that has been on the table for 10-20 years and they are within a few percentage points of agreement - including land swaps with each other

Please define complete control by Israel? It is an unclear statement - Israel has stated they want Palestine to be demilitarized - Not a difficult decision looking at all the attacks over the years against Israel. And that Israel would control the borders - again not unreasonable

Return of so called refugees - AKA - Right of Return - Not going to happen - They Israeli's would become an immediate minority in their own country - Does anyone think that is reasonable?


Fatah will eventually make peace, possibly, maybe -

Hamas & Hezbollah the 2 groups I asked you about want the total destruction of Israel. Yet you make no real point on this, no opinion really of any value - outside of they all should let it go.

I am more than willing to wait for you to investigate and come back with an informed opinion.

But I do see a slant - Why did you use the term Zionism. There is more to Israel than Zionists.

So I will be as patient as a vulture waiting for your informed opinion on Hezbollah & Hamas

 

[ironsides]

So I did a little bit of reading to catch up on the Zionist movement. Also had some fun looking at the controversy over whether Bin Laden was funded by the CIA like the other Afghani freedom fighters were.

So, while I have a little understanding about the situation, here's my barely informed opinion on things. Take this as you will..

First, regarding the Palestinian conflict, Israel should let it go. They're the stronger power, so they can show some humility and forget their ties to this 'sacred land'. I'm pretty sure, they can still lead completely fruitful and enjoyable lives, and will not be forsaken by God if they don't have complete control over the holy land. They weren't forsaken for 1300 years, and in that time both groups were in less conflict than they are now.

Obviously, Fatah and Hamas need to get their own conflict over with as well and that's just complicating things. Even if that conflict does get resolved, the Israelis should just stay out of it. Now that's my opinion, and before someone says "Joo hater", keep in mind it is definitely subject to change. My only foundation for that reasoning is simply picking the stronger state to practice some form of militant resistance.

Secondly, regarding the CIA's involvement, and the blowback - yea, they pretty much are responsible for funding freedom fighters. Whether one can specifically pinpoint Bin Laden receiving funds, the moguls are obviously keeping a tight lid, but I would reasonably suspect he did.

But it's not only the CIA's responsibility. The UK, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and China also had some involvement in basically funding these freedom fighters. All parties had good intentions, but probably the wrong methodology. Formally arming a number of different sects to combat the Soviet Union's communist influence resulted in this blowback, and is potentially the reason that terrorist groups now have enough resources and intelligence to use their might against the U.S.

What you said is true. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend." Of course we (UK, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, China and other countries) all funded all the freedom fighters fighting the Soviet Union back then.