Anti_Islam protests victory for extremists?

CDNBear

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The site of the Lorraine Motel was recently purchased by IAP Management, and under guidance from one of its alumni, is planning a cultural center/memorial to the struggle of the advancement of Christian values.

Anyone have an issue with that?

Be honest.
 

earth_as_one

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One might even be able to draw a comparison to the Japanese wanting to build a memorial at Pearl Harbor. No this was not a attack by any Muslim nation against the U.S., but it did light up the problem in the world as to organized terrorist organizations and what they are capable of. Wanting to build a Mosque near or at Ground Zero is just plain bad taste with no regard to the feelings of the families who lost so many.

Well I am shocked and outraged to discover that Japanese Americans have built a temple right across the street from Pearl Harbor, a stone's throw from the Pearl Harbor bikepath:

Pearl City Hongwanji Mission
858 2nd Street, Pearl City,
HI 96782-3342,
United States (808) 455-1680

Pearl City Hongwanji Mission - Google Maps

The location of this temple is in really bad taste, with no regard to the Pearl Harbor victim families.

BTW, let me know when Muslim Americans intend to build a memorial glorifying 9/11 hijackers at ground zero. Then I'd agree that it was in bad taste. Right now we are talking about building a Muslim community center to meet the needs of New York's Muslim population. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Muslims are still legally allowed in NYC.

Apparently this guy who isn't Muslim but sort of looks like he might be Muslim was trying to walk past the anti-Mosque mob of protesters on his way to work. The crowd reacted by showing their true colors...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/23/antiislamic-center-protes_n_691103.html
This guy will probably think twice before walking through another anti-mosque rally.

On Sunday opponents of a proposed Islamic center near Ground Zero accosted a black man who tried to navigate through a crowd of anti-mosque protesters.

Someone calls the man a "coward," prompting the man to yell, "Y'all mother****ers don't know my opinion about ****."

Maybe not, but that doesn't stop a guy in a blue hardhat from getting in the man's face as the crowd renews its chants of, "No Mosque Here."

Soon, a peace-seeking protester gets between the two men and the tension is eventually defused.

The YouTube user who posted claims that the man who caused the protester freakout is simply a union carpenter who works at Ground Zero.

He is also, for whatever it's worth, the man makes it clear that he's not a Muslim.
 
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CDNBear

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Well I am shocked and outraged to discover that Japanese Americans have built a temple right across the street from Pearl Harbor, a stone's throw from the Pearl Harbor bikepath:

Pearl City Hongwanji Mission
858 2nd Street, Pearl City,
HI 96782-3342,
United States (808) 455-1680

Pearl City Hongwanji Mission - Google Maps

The location of this temple is in really bad taste, with no regard to the Pearl Harbor victim families.
Let's examine all the problems with the baffoonish attempt to use the Honwanji Mission in Hawaii...

1, You forgot to mention it's a Buddhist temple.
2, It is not Shinto.
3, It has been a fixture of Hawaii for over 100 years.
4, Japanese is not a religion.
5, Muslim is not a race.

... but keep grasping, it's funny to watch.

BTW, let me know when Muslim Americans intend to build a memorial glorifying 9/11 hijackers at ground zero.
You mean like the ones built in Gaza towns memorializing suicide bombers?

Then I'd agree that it was in bad taste. Right now we are talking about building a Muslim community center to meet the needs of New York's Muslim population.
There are no other Mosques? There are no other sites available?

Apparently this guy who isn't Muslim but sort of looks like he might be Muslim was trying to walk past the anti-Mosque mob of protesters. The crowd reacted by showing their true colors...

Anti-Islamic Center Protesters Harass Random African-American Man (VIDEO)
Appaerantly this Muslim woman, who thinks the center is a fitna needs Allah's protection...

"Moderate" Ground Zero Developer Sharif El Gamal Threatens Muslim who Opposes the Mosque - Atlas Shrugs

Hmmm, threatened by a "moderate" no less...how odd.

Any other stupidity you'd like to compare eao?
 
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ironsides

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Well I am shocked and outraged to discover that Japanese Americans have built a temple right across the street from Pearl Harbor, a stone's throw from the Pearl Harbor bikepath:

Pearl City Hongwanji Mission
858 2nd Street, Pearl City,
HI 96782-3342,
United States (808) 455-1680

Pearl City Hongwanji Mission - Google Maps

The location of this temple is in really bad taste, with no regard to the Pearl Harbor victim families.

BTW, let me know when Muslim Americans intend to build a memorial glorifying 9/11 hijackers at ground zero. Then I'd agree that it was in bad taste. Right now we are talking about building a Muslim community center to meet the needs of New York's Muslim population. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Muslims are still legally allowed in NYC.

Apparently this guy who isn't Muslim but sort of looks like he might be Muslim was trying to walk past the anti-Mosque mob of protesters on his way to work. The crowd reacted by showing their true colors...

Anti-Islamic Center Protesters Harass Random African-American Man (VIDEO)
The Japanese built the Temple around 1889. As for the Mosque, there are approx. 47 Mosques in NYC alone. They want to use the new Mosque as a trophy.
 

earth_as_one

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The Japanese built the Temple around 1889. As for the Mosque, there are approx. 47 Mosques in NYC alone. They want to use the new Mosque as a trophy.
OK I'll concede that I couldn't find any Japanese Shrines built near Pearl Harbor since the WW II. But I found at least a dozen Japanese restaurants in the area. Some of them must be new and serve clients who are pro-imperial Japan sympathizers.;)

A trophy? Now you are the one being ridiculous.
 

mentalfloss

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I wouldn't link to a blog based on 'Atlas Shrugged' anymore, lol. Not only is that story based on hearsay, it's objectivist source should be raising all kinds of red flags.


The Japanese built the Temple around 1889. As for the Mosque, there are approx. 47 Mosques in NYC alone. They want to use the new Mosque as a trophy.

Really? You came up with that assertion based entirely on the number of mosques in NYC alone? Hmm...
 
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CDNBear

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I wouldn't link to a blog based on 'Atlas Shrugged' anymore, lol. Not only is that story based on hearsay, it's objectivist source should be raising all kinds of red flags.
Would you accept it from...

Canoe?
The Sun?
The Washington Post?
The Star?

Why would she lie?

She's on the board of the Muslim Canadian Congress, a founding member of said organization.

What would posses her to say or do anything to put Islam in a bad light?

And what makes you think I didn't use that site for a reason?
 

mentalfloss

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Would you accept it from...

Canoe?
The Sun?
The Washington Post?
The Star?

Why would she lie?

She's on the board of the Muslim Canadian Congress, a founding member of said organization.

What would posses her to say or do anything to put Islam in a bad light?

And what makes you think I didn't use that site for a reason?

I never said she was lying. I'm just saying that citing an article from a clearly biased site that reports that one woman who already thought the construction of the community center was an act of provocation even before getting supposedly slagged... isn't really that convincing.

If you read the Atlas crud's blogger's bio - Pamela Geller is patently biased.

Raheel Raza, as you mentioned, is a founding member of the Muslim Canadian Congress. And she said that last week she got slagged? Last week, being, no earlier than August 18th, 2010?

Well, turns out the Muslim Canadian Congress already had an 'anti-mosque' agenda on August 9th, 2010. Gee, I wonder if the founding member of this organization already had any inclination to paint Sharif El Gamal in a bad light?

http://www.muslimcanadiancongress.org/

August 9, 2010
"Proposal for a mosque at site of 9/11 tragedy is nothing short of a 'fitna' or making mischief" Muslim Canadian Congress urges New York’s Ground-Zero Mosque Imam to abandon project
 
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ironsides

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OK I'll concede that I couldn't find any Japanese Shrines built near Pearl Harbor since the WW II. But I found at least a dozen Japanese restaurants in the area. Some of them must be new and serve clients who are pro-imperial Japan sympathizers.;)

I've been to a couple. :)
 

CDNBear

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I never said she was lying. I'm just saying that citing an article from a clearly biased site that reports that one woman who already thought the construction of the community center was an act of provocation even before getting supposedly slagged... isn't really that convincing.
Ya, that's the point, she speaks out, THEN gets threatened. That's how it usually works.

If you read the Atlas crud's blogger's bio - Pamela Geller is patently biased.
I think she's funny.

Raheel Raza, as you mentioned, is a founding member of the Muslim Canadian Congress. And she said that last week she got slagged? Last week, being, no earlier than August 18th, 2010?
I'm aware of the time line. Which is why I presented the material as cause and effect.

Well, turns out the Muslim Canadian Congress already had an 'anti-mosque' agenda on August 9th, 2010. Gee, I wonder if the founding member of this organization already had any inclination to paint Sharif El Gamal in a bad light?
I'm well aware that there are two sides to every story. But oddly enough, this is a Muslim speaking out against a Muslim act. In so doing, likely brought upon herself, a negative reaction. Which I might add, he denied making any call at all, when pressed for info, but the number is from his office.

Do you think this is an isolated case of threat within the Muslim community, for speaking out honestly?

Do you think she has an agenda again American Muslims?
 

ironsides

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I wouldn't link to a blog based on 'Atlas Shrugged' anymore, lol. Not only is that story based on hearsay, it's objectivist source should be raising all kinds of red flags.




Really? You came up with that assertion based entirely on the number of mosques in NYC alone? Hmm...
To be more specific ant to quote Protestor Marion Dreyfus.


"This Mosque Celebrates Our Murderers."

Protestor Marion Dreyfus: "In history, for the last thousand years, every time Islam has come to a country that celebrates a different religion, if they have conquered it or in some way managed to attack it, and prevail, they have established a mosque over the place that was conquered. That has happened in Turkey, that has happened in Spain, that has happened in Israel, and it appears to be happening here."


There is no other reason to build the mosque (no need, other mosques are not over crowded, Muslim population in area doesn't warrant it.) CAIR wants it built.
 

mentalfloss

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To be more specific ant to quote Protestor Marion Dreyfus.


"This Mosque Celebrates Our Murderers."

Protestor Marion Dreyfus: "In history, for the last thousand years, every time Islam has come to a country that celebrates a different religion, if they have conquered it or in some way managed to attack it, and prevail, they have established a mosque over the place that was conquered. That has happened in Turkey, that has happened in Spain, that has happened in Israel, and it appears to be happening here."

Define conquered. And then show me how they currently conquer those countries. And finally prove why that means the community center shouldn't be built.

You should really back up these claims instead of just posting unqualified quotes. I don't mind any viewpoint as long you take the time to effectively explain the rationale.
 
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ironsides

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The organization behind this $100 million dollar Mosque is called the Cordoba Initiative. The Mosque is to be called the Cordoba House. When the Muslims conquered Spain they took a huge Christian cathedral and turned it into the Cordoba Mosque. So the very group planning this Mosque at Ground Zero is named after a Mosque built at the scene of a previous Muslim conquest.

There are other such mosques:

When Muslims conquered Jerusalem they built the Al-Aqsa Mosque.
When Muslims conquered Constantinople (now Istanbul) they transformed the St. Sophia Basilica into a Mosque.



Article


Tit for Tat war memorials

Sun Advocate - The Wasatch Behind: Tit for Tat war memorials - August 10, 2010

 

earth_as_one

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The organization behind this $100 million dollar Mosque is called the Cordoba Initiative. The Mosque is to be called the Cordoba House. When the Muslims conquered Spain they took a huge Christian cathedral and turned it into the Cordoba Mosque. So the very group planning this Mosque at Ground Zero is named after a Mosque built at the scene of a previous Muslim conquest.

There are other such mosques:

When Muslims conquered Jerusalem they built the Al-Aqsa Mosque.
When Muslims conquered Constantinople (now Istanbul) they transformed the St. Sophia Basilica into a Mosque.



Article


Tit for Tat war memorials

Sun Advocate - The Wasatch Behind: Tit for Tat war memorials - August 10, 2010


Cordoba was the capital city of an area of Spain which was conquered by the Moors (who were Muslim). The Moors converted a church to mosque and since they named the city Cordoba, they gave the mosque the same name. When the area was re-conquered by Christians they turned the mosque back to a church. BTW, access to the library of Cordoba after the falls of Moorish Spain, resulted in a technological and scientific leap forward for Europeans which was later referred to as the Renaissance. Last I was aware, the Cordoba Mosque is still a church.
Great Mosque of Córdoba - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If this group was choosing an "In your face Christians!" name, I doubt they would have chosen a name of a city conquered by Christians. However, Cordoba was known as a place of learned intellectuals, philosophers and scholars during the golden era of Moorish Spain. At its height, Muslims, Christians and Jews lived together peacefully although times existed when Jews and Christians were treated badly. When it was conquered by the Christians, most Jews and Muslims left for Muslim countries. If they stayed they had to convert to Christianity and face the Spanish Inquisition.

You guys are shameless hate mongering minions of the cable news bullies.
 
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CDNBear

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Cordoba was the capital city of an area of Spain which was conquered by the Moors (who were Muslim). The Moors converted a church to mosque and since they named the city Cordoba, they gave the mosque the same name. When the area was re-conquered by Christians they turned the mosque back to a church. BTW, access to the library of Cordoba after the falls of Moorish Spain, resulted in a technological and scientific leap forward for Europeans which was later referred to as the Renaissance. Last I was aware, the Cordoba Mosque is still a church.
Why is it, when I say that, you never remember it?

You guys are shameless hate mongering minions of the cable news bullies.
Why is shameless hate mongering when we say it, but when you say worse about Israel, it's Okey Dokey?

Couldn't your pathetic label and attempt to stifle discussion and debate, be considered as abhorrent as you view my application and subsequent proof, that you inadvertently (I hope) support neo Nazi regimes, because you've been brain washed by Pallywood con men?
 

mentalfloss

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If it were any other place, there would be no problem. As I have said, it is in extremely bad taste to build there.

It's actually in good taste, really. What better place for Muslims to decry the terrorist stereotypes put upon them then to stand one and united with the victims of 9/11 themselves against real terrorist groups like the Taliban.

Segregating people only makes them more volatile against each other. It is better that we all come together for a common goal. In this case, it is the acceptance of all cultures and walks of life.

Here's a neat little article on why none of this should even be up for debate anyway. I would suggest we use this as a segue for the rest of the thread, lest we start to debate the tangency of taste.

3 Reasons the "Ground Zero Mosque" Debate Makes No Sense

I don’t usually write about politics. It’s important, but something I want no part of – kind of like a raw sewage treatment facility. But frankly, I haven’t been this upset in a long time. And it's due to the logic-hating, herd-mentality rhetoric that some have been flinging in opposition to the so-called “Ground Zero Mosque.” For the uninitiated, there are plans to construct an Islamic community center in lower Manhattan. And, of course, lower Manhattan is where the World Trade Center stood before terrorists destroyed it, thereby murdering 3,000 Americans. I was working in New York City at the time. As was my father. As was my pregnant wife. I remember the day well. And the days that followed. I think most of all, I remember standing on the Staten Island Ferry, coming home with 200 other silent, reverent New Yorkers of every age, race, and religion, as we watched our city still smoldering a full week later. And it is with this backdrop that I can say to every politician spouting off and opposing the construction of this Islamic community center: “Shut up. Go away. You hate America.”
I’m talking about people like professional political tumor, Newt Gingrich, and future worst President ever, Sarah Palin, who have both slammed supporters of the Islamic community center with rhetoric so flawed, I’m afraid even linking to it might impair your computer’s higher functioning circuits. But it's not just them. Due to the wave of misinformation being spread, apparently 68% of Americans also oppose the mosque.

How did this happen? Well, basically a complacent or a complicit media helped perpetuate three ideas that are either outright lies or intellectually dishonest arguments designed to bring out the very worst in all of us. And as you continue to hear them--and you will--take out this column which you will have already printed and laminated, and recite thusly:

1. It’s Not at Ground Zero

The proposed structure is not on the hallowed ground of the former World Trade Center. It’s at an abandoned and private building blocks away that used to be the Burlington Coat Factory. That means that if every one of the “g’s” that Sarah Palin drops when she’s talkin’ folksy were 10 by10 feet large, you could still stack over 120 of them from Ground Zero to this community center. Easy.

That sort of makes all the difference, doesn’t it? I know, when I first heard they were building a mosque at Ground Zero, I literally said, “What the ****.” Like out loud and everything. I didn’t even pull a “WTF” despite years of writing for the Internet. That’s because for the last nine years, we New Yorkers have listened to countless proposals and plans and ideas of how to best rebuild the area while honoring the memories of those who died. And suddenly it seemed we were being told, “Yep, it’s all decided. Mosque. We want a mosque here. Just feels right.”
So yeah, of course, no one was on board. That just made no sense. What happened to that proposed waterfall and wall of names? Nothing happened. Because no one was ever building a mosque on that site. It’s just a lie that was told to you by people who wanted you to be afraid, upset, and hurt. People who wanted to manipulate your tender emotions to inspire contempt for the government. It’s about as intellectually dishonest as manipulating debate footage to make it appear that “Drill, baby, drill” is Sarah Palin’s stance on partial birth abortions. It's just wrong.

And to those who say that any location in lower Manhattan is too close for a Muslim structure, let me remind you that right now, in the shadow of what would be the former World Trade Center, there’s a Halal Meat Hot Truck with a multi-denominational line that wraps around my building every day at lunch time. And I’m positive that’s owned by a Muslim. And I’ve even suffered at his hands. (Spoiler alert: avoid the goat rhoti). Should he move a few more blocks away too? Of course, not. That would just be silly, right? Is it different? Why? Because mosques are religious and the 911 terrorists perverted Islam into something violent and hateful? Guess what? Those knights did the same thing to Christianity for the 300 years of the Crusades, and no one’s saying that churches shouldn’t be built anywhere in … Europe.

2. It’s Not Strictly A Mosque

A mosque by definition is a purely religious structure. This is a large proposed community center, open to the public and set to house, among other things, a basketball court. Yes there will be a prayer space inside it as well, but you don’t call St. Mary’s Hospital a church because it happens to have a chapel inside it, do you? Well, maybe you do. You read about politics on the Internet from a guy who claims not to write about politics, so maybe you’re functionally illiterate. But the point is, you shouldn’t.

But “Islamic Community Center open to the public” doesn’t have the same ability to scare people the way "mosque" does. I mean, you hear "mosque" you think mosquito, you think STING! You hear "mosque" you think “mask,” you think DECEPTION! You hear “community center” you think “OK. One more place I’ll never go.” So, yeah, clearly the decision was made by those who hate you to call this the “Ground Zero Mosque” even though it’s not at Ground Zero and not technically a mosque. Why are we still discussing this? Why haven’t you already asked Sarah Palin if she’s the devil on her Twitter account? Oh, that’s right. Because the devil is supposed to be good at lying.

3. You Can’t Simultaneously Acknowledge A Right And Insist That Your Government Suppress It

But the real reason I’m writing is not just because of people like Sarah Palin, but because of shameful, spineless panderers like Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid. Here’s a statement from each of them designed to give the appearance of being tolerant while adhering to good old-fashioned common sense values:
From Sarah Palin’s Twitter Feed:
And from Harry Reid’s spokesperson:
Let me make something clear. In order to make these statements you must hate two things: logic and America. There is NO way to say that an individual has a protected right to do something and simultaneously criticize your government for not suppressing the execution of that right. There is no way for President Obama or any other president to put a stumbling block in the way of the free exercise of religion without violating the sanctity of that freedom. Should I say it more simply? OK.
You can’t legally stop people from obeying the law.
The Burlington Coat factory is private property. Those who want to build on it are private citizens. They are violating no law in wanting to build a community center. Under what authority do you propose we stop them? There is no “unless you’re a Muslim within X yards of a national tragedy exception” to the free exercise of religion. Do the Gingrichs and Palins and Reids want to start a precedent where you can compel people not to exercise the freedoms guaranteed under our Constitution provided enough people don’t like you?
And what are we saying to Muslims? That if they were good Americans they would willingly give up their rights? I can’t think of anything less American than that? This is America. We do what we want. And all you have to do to have that right is be a citizen here. And if you’re a traitor, well then we will prosecute you for treason and penalize you for taking up arms against the greatest country in the world, but we will NOT start curtailing your freedoms based on mere speculation fueled by lies about what you’re building and where you’re building it.

In the days following 911 it was very popular to say that we couldn’t do anything differently in America or “the terrorists would win.” We can’t stop driving gas guzzling cars. We can’t stop supporting dictators in other parts of the world for financial or political gain. We can’t vote for a Democrat. Most of that was rhetoric. Some of it was probably true. But one thing is definitely true: if we ask our leaders to start dishonoring the freedoms that make this country great, the terrorists surely will have won. And I don’t want to s

Read more: http://www.cracked.com/blog/3-reasons-the-ground-zero-mosque-debate-makes-no-sense/#ixzz0xexk8kWc
 
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