The bible is a fairy tale!

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MHz

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That's precisely why I don't take any of this stuff seriously
I was hoping that you would be quite serious when you start claiming that some people who disagree with you are delusional and prone to hallucinations. Shouldn't you only response to anything between the covers be "I have no opinion." if you are a true non-believer. As it is you have adopted some version of what a few prophecies mean, that is where your open-minded ends. That is the only version possible if it was even possible, which it isn't so, don't bother trying to explain anything different because your version is coming from a person prone to delusions, etc. Why not sit back and say nothing when it comes to what the verse can mean that is different than your version.

and why I rarely respond to your long posts in any detail anymore.
It was down to 2 yes/no questions and 2 more questions that would have required no more than 1 verse in reply to settle the issue. You didn't answer because you would have been agreeing with my version and that would require you making modifications.
Don't respond to this part. The funeral you attended would have had people with several different versions of where the dead person's 'soul' was during the ceremony. For my version she would have been in a deep sleep, the same one Job knew he was headed for, until the return. That same thing happens to everybody all the way back to Adam. Here is the part I would have been asking. There are several OT verses that deal with mourning the death of a 'loved-one' and it states that one full month is given for mourning the loss. One has to assume that after the 30 days a person should put the mourning away into something that is not painful. Remembrance would qualify as memories without deep grief. In todays world and with our modern view of what is good for the mind and body would 30 days serve as a 'marker' for how a person deals with grief. A person who cannot grieve for a full month might be less than a fully compassionate person and one who cannot let go of grief has dependency problem that are larger than involving just that one person.

You've obviously invested a great deal of time and effort into trying to make sense of over five dozen ancient books of varying ages that happen to be between the same covers, on the assumption that it's both possible and necessary to do so in order to understand what some fictitious deity is up to.
No more than I would dedicate to a 'hobby', this one just works out to not cost a dime by itself. Another hobby that would (and has) take more time also costs $1,000's initially and a continual influx of more money to keep it working. The time and effort is helped by my ability to remember what the verses say so when that same 'theme' comes up in another passage it can be meshed into previous words.
It isn't an assumption, this verse below says the information goes that far back, one part that is going to stall a lot of dedicated Bible believers is the reference to Babylon. Jeremiah covers it in many verses and once Revelation was written another Babylon was introduced. Which Scholar has gone over all those references to determine which Babylon is being referenced. Making that task somewhat more complicated is the reference to Neb as being the 'head of gold' and as being a 'king of kings' which is also a reference to Christ on the day He comes from Heaven with authority to sent all sinners to the grave. The ones who pass themselves off as teachers and authorities concerning Bible prophecies should be doing that just because it should be done. Trouble is it would probably mess up most of the current versions of the prophecies that are referenced in most doctrines.

Lu:24:27:
And beginning at Moses and all the prophets,
he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

If there is no god your exhaustive and exhausting biblical exegesis has neither meaning nor purpose.
What does that say about your life where you have nothing better to do than spend time on a subject that 'has no meaning'?

The questions you ask are clearly things you believe you've figured out the answers to, your purpose here is didactic and evangelical,
Only to the point that having a doctrine that takes questions like those into account is stronger than one that discourages too many questions about specifics that have no clear answer, another verse is where the extra info should come from.

and I'm not interested in that because I believe the foundation of it is false.
The foundation says there will not be any proof available until a certain point in time, if it hasn't happened yet then that date has not yet been reached, rather than your version which says all the prophecies are in the past and that proves there is no God.

I wonder what you could have accomplished if you'd put that single-minded dedication to work on something useful.
What makes you assume anything else got left behind?
 

Goober

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MHZ

Question as you read and are conversant with the Bible.

Can a person who does not believe in God enter Heaven
 

Dexter Sinister

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... your version which says all the prophecies are in the past and that proves there is no God.
You're half right, proving there's no god is unrelated to that. It's the utter feebleness of all the arguments offered in support of the claim and the complete absence of evidence that should be there, that makes the case.
What makes you assume anything else got left behind?
A concept from economic theory called opportunity cost.
 

MHz

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Can a person who does not believe in God enter Heaven
No. That is why there are steps taken to ensure every human ever born is a believer before there is a Judgment that makes that impossible. The verses after the mention of the new earth in Isa:65 is about the ones who died by His sword only a few verses prior. His servants were believers prior, 'the rest' became believers when the sword sent to to the place they would have chosen to avoid.
It is impossible to not be in the Kingdom of God for men by the time the Great White Throne is over. Even at that time there will be Laws, they are just never broken by anybody.
 

AnnaG

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hhmmm Perhaps I should become an atheist then. I have no wish to spend any time in a place built by someone with no interest in me nor in humanity in general and who contstantly causes a lot of grief to them. A badger would make a more kind god.
 

MHz

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You're half right, proving there's no god is unrelated to that.
Then why keep running back to that argument when a discussion about a certain prophecy is already started? Fact or fiction would not alter the way the passages blend and support each other. You have to actually do it before before you can say it doesn't 'work'. By that time for the phrase 'day of the Lord' in the OT will have already answered the question for you, it points to a massive singular event.

It's the utter feebleness of all the arguments offered in support of the claim and the complete absence of evidence that should be there, that makes the case.
There is a lot of material that applies, that is what has to be covered if a convincing argument is going to be made for support. If I read 100 passages that convince me a certain thing is promoted and sum it up to 50 words that should convince 'anybody' that my pov is the correct one. If you studied the whole 100 passages you might not be convinced. If I didn't argue all 100 passages then I didn't do my best to explain why the concept is more valid than another.

A concept from economic theory called opportunity cost.
Would you rather get into the factual details of a 23 year-old court case that still shows no signs of ending. Try finding verification of anything on all the intrigue that goes along with crooked Lawyers, high profile public figures (ie have a street named after you), Government Dept that use insider information to enhance their private gains and you should have the makings of a story that should have hit the papers at least once or twice. Would that type in thread perk your interest, it would be fun for me just to show you that I have interesting events that are going on that are far removed from the Bible.
How would you reply to the Law Society of Alberta when they deny there was a certain document with a file # on a (copy of a fax) that is on their stationary). At that point no reply was given, who is in denial and who is having hallucinations? Let alone where the extra $20,000 came from that was left in a trust after all the cheques written had cleared. All that is real, why is it so hard to find any information in the public databases. (court judgments can be accessed freely going back to about 1998 and certain involved names do show up but never in relation to the case already mentioned (or any side-spins)

No use trying to find out why the 'formal complaint' got lost but the original complaint was never closed as far as the person who made the complaint is concerned. They never got back to him, isn't it odd that he never got a follow-up letter?

Something like that is more involved in economic gains/loses than reading about Bible prophecy. Are Lawyers trying to set a new standard in 'slow' compared to how many thing about God's pace at 'making things happen? lol

hhmmm Perhaps I should become an atheist then. I have no wish to spend any time in a place built by someone with no interest in me nor in humanity in general and who contstantly causes a lot of grief to them. A badger would make a more kind god.
Best of luck, bye.
 

Goober

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No. That is why there are steps taken to ensure every human ever born is a believer before there is a Judgment that makes that impossible. The verses after the mention of the new earth in Isa:65 is about the ones who died by His sword only a few verses prior. His servants were believers prior, 'the rest' became believers when the sword sent to to the place they would have chosen to avoid.
It is impossible to not be in the Kingdom of God for men by the time the Great White Throne is over. Even at that time there will be Laws, they are just never broken by anybody.
So what about those before JC came along.

What about those that have never heard the word
 

Goober

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They're screwed dude.
Pope Says That Non-Christians Can Be Saved!


Refers to St. Augustine's Commentary on Psalm 136(137)
VATICAN CITY, NOV. 30, 2005 (Zenit.org).- Whoever seeks peace and the good of the community with a pure conscience, and keeps alive the desire for the transcendent, will be saved even if he lacks biblical faith, says Benedict XVI.

The Pope made this affirmation today at the general audience, commenting on a meditation written by St. Augustine (354-430).

1260 "Since Christ died for all, and since all men are in fact called to one and the same destiny, which is divine, we must hold that the Holy Spirit offers to all the possibility of being made partakers, in a way known to God, of the Paschal mystery."62 Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have desired Baptism explicitly if they had known its necessity.
Source:
Catechism of the Catholic Church online at the Vatican.
5. All the just of the earth, including those who do not know Christ and his Church, who, under the influence of grace, seek God with a sincere heart (cf. Lumen gentium, n. 16), are thus called to build the kingdom of God by working with the Lord, who is its first and decisive builder. Therefore, we must entrust ourselves to his hands, to his Word, to his guidance, like inexperienced children who find security only in the Father: "Whoever does not accept the kingdom of God like a child", Jesus said, "shall not enter it" (Lk 18: 17).Text of the Wednesday Audience message
JOHN PAUL II, GENERAL AUDIENCE, Wednesday 6 December 2000.

 

MHz

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So what about those before JC came along.
1Pe:4:5:
Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.
1Pe:4:6:
For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead,
that they might be judged according to men in the flesh,
but live according to God in the spirit.

What about those that have never heard the word

Lu:12:47:
And that servant,
which knew his lord's will,
and prepared not himself,
neither did according to his will,
shall be beaten with many stripes.
Lu:12:48:
But he that knew not,
and did commit things worthy of stripes,
shall be beaten with few stripes.
For unto whomsoever much is given,
of him shall be much required:
and to whom men have committed much,
of him they will ask the more.

The stripes are in the form of chastisement as described in Hebrews 11. Those who are not in the first phase are in the 2nd phase.
 

Dexter Sinister

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Then why keep running back to that argument when a discussion about a certain prophecy is already started?
My understanding of the prophecies presupposes that there's no god and that they have to be interpreted in terms of the historical context in which they were written, they are not evidence against god's existence and I've never used them as such.
Would you rather get into the factual details of a 23 year-old court case that still shows no signs of ending..
No, that doesn't interest me either, and I can't see how it has any bearing on opportunity cost anyway. Maybe you need to look up what it means.
 

CDNBear

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Did I have to put that in sarcastic purple for you to get the sarcasm?

As you can plainly see, Mhz agrees with my sarcasm.

Which was my point.

Why do you take everything I say so personally Gh? By now I figured you would understand where I'm coming from.
 
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