The Iroquois Nationals team won't be attending the world championship in Manchester
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True, but Bear is correct - passport requirements change constantly - the leaders should have made it their business to see that the First Nations passports complied with what is required for travel in the 21st century.
And for those of you interested in the actual topic, the team is headed home. The boys from Brantford are on their way back now, as their funds have pretty much run out, (So much for all that endless Gov't funding :roll
.
Seems they are not willing to sell out their sovereignty, and obtain a US or Canadian passport, to play.
I'm a little disappointed in Britain though. Although I fully accept their original position as legitimate. The US offered to give the entire team a waiver, allowing all of them to return to the US, as per Britain's original concern.
But even when that single concern was met, Britain still refused to grant them a visa. I find that odd, and unethical.
. Seems they are not willing to sell out their sovereignty, and obtain a US or Canadian passport, to play.
I'm a little disappointed in Britain though. Although I fully accept their original position as legitimate. The US offered to give the entire team a waiver, allowing all of them to return to the US, as per Britain's original concern.
But even when that single concern was met, Britain still refused to grant them a visa. I find that odd, and unethical.
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On one side I agree with you YJ. I have a Canadian Passport.
But another side of me stands with them in the fact that we shouldn't have to.
And for those of you interested in the actual topic, the team is headed home. The boys from Brantford are on their way back now, as their funds have pretty much run out, (So much for all that endless Gov't funding :roll
Seems they are not willing to sell out their sovereignty, and obtain a US or Canadian passport, to play.
I'm a little disappointed in Britain though. Although I fully accept their original position as legitimate. The US offered to give the entire team a waiver, allowing all of them to return to the US, as per Britain's original concern.
But even when that single concern was met, Britain still refused to grant them a visa. I find that odd, and unethical.
What a shame - like I said, I've heard that the team is a really good one. It would have been good to see them take on Europe. I understand the need for rules but there also needs to be flexibility. If they had waived the 'rule' this one time because let's face it, the security risk is pretty much nil, they would have seen some excellent lacrosse playing. The team would have gone home and no doubt gone up one side and down the other of their leaders for being so bloody short sighted.
I'm sure you've notice how I try and balance the two sides of my ethnicity, and how that plays out in my psyche and opinion.
I'm truly torn, as you and I agree, there are a need for rules, and there was little chance of a security threat here. But if Britain were to give way to this, would that not set precedent? In the future they would have had to substantiate any barring of another small group under similar circumstances.
I would like to think that the boys will go home and ask or demand change, but I'm not all that naive about it. I don't want to judge, and I certainly don't want to generalize here, but I am well aware of a serious uprising in the fierce ideals of our sovereignty, within the community. The youth have become the next generation of our sovereignty champions. Many in a very positive way, some not so much. I would like to think that because these young men are a part of a team and a little more worldly, they would be so inclined to understand that their leaders dropped the ball here, and then act accordingly to ensure that this does not happen again, in the future.
I hope at the very least, the leaders will now go and negotiate a new standard of passport with Britain, the US and Canada Customs. One that includes all the standard and modernized features that will allow them to travel to wherever, next time.
YJ, understanding a good portion of you principles and standards, I fully grasp how magnanimous that comment is.
Thank you.
And for those of you interested in the actual topic, the team is headed home. The boys from Brantford are on their way back now, as their funds have pretty much run out, (So much for all that endless Gov't funding :roll
Seems they are not willing to sell out their sovereignty, and obtain a US or Canadian passport, to play.
I'm a little disappointed in Britain though. Although I fully accept their original position as legitimate. The US offered to give the entire team a waiver, allowing all of them to return to the US, as per Britain's original concern.
But even when that single concern was met, Britain still refused to grant them a visa. I find that odd, and unethical.
I've only been sort'a 1/2 following this Thread topic. I've a weird question
with respect to the "endless" Gov't funding & sovereignty in this situation.
Funding by which Gov't or level of Gov't ran out? The team in question
spread across Canadian & American borders, right? So did cash from
either (or both...or neither) of these countries for this run dry, or funding
from a third sovereign entity run out?
What would it have taken to upgrade the passports these players currently
have to include whatever security items where missing from them, to allow
them to have been used in this venture?
I guess that was a couple of questions....
Bear - Read an article and the suggestion was to carry 2 passports - Your opinion is? You are more familiar with the intricacies of why, why not etc than I am so over to you.
Neither, it was a sarcastic statement. The team had an allotted amount of money to travel on and it has been used up in hotels while waiting.
Just the money allotted for this event.
It doesn't just flow like pennies from heaven as some would have us believe.
As far as I know, as of Britain's first issue, it was the safety measures currently found in the new passports. Along with a guarantee from Canada Customs, that they would allow the players to return on them.
There's enough blame to go around here. It can't all be laid at the feet of the "Man", and it can't all be laid at the feet of the Six Nations. But I would be so inclined to say the bulk of it does.
No worries.
I'm a sell out Goober. I carry a Canadian passport, I live off rez. I disagree with blaming everything that's wrong with our Nation on the white folk. I'm an apple.
It would be taken as selling out.
"the leaders should have made it their business to see that the First Nations passports complied with what is required for travel in the 21st century."
What exactly is requied for 21st century travel? I know of no international law that has mandated anything new. If there was, none of those Europeans who are living in NYC illegally would have been able to enter our shores. Why wasn't a change required for them?
As an example, Australia recognizes those Six Nations passports. Please show me where international law or UN Charter has changed in order to mandate such a compliance.
What exactly is requied for 21st century travel? I know of no international law that has mandated anything new. If there was, none of those Europeans who are living in NYC illegally would have been able to enter our shores. Why wasn't a change required for them?
As an example, Australia recognizes those Six Nations passports. Please show me where international law or UN Charter has changed in order to mandate such a compliance.
In response to your question, read again my above reply. Also, the Brits are under no obligation to accept Anyones visa, especially ones that do not meet present day security requirements.
This whole thing is nothing more than spilt milk.
I admit I am at a loss to understand this. First of all I had no idea the Iroquois Confederacy issued its own passports. Small wonder that they are not recognized as I suspect most nations of the world have not accorded the Confederacy diplomatic recognition. Is this a case of the Iroquois traveling under their own passports in order to prove a point or did they actually think they would be accepted?
yeah, someone failed to make the inquiries, it's their own fault, and no one else should be blamed.
if we heard from everyone who has had passport problems since 911, we could fill a encyclopedia, so
these people are just another one to add to that.
hope they learned their lesson, and whoever is in charge of preparations for them to travel should have
a red face for just assuming, and not making sure that everything was in order.
Yes, it's hard to put blame on people when they could've checked this out in advance. The people in England are probably up to their eyeballs in work and have no time for a last minute game of global charades.
There's no need to, as Gh points out, no country is obliged by law to allow entry to anyone. Britain has every right to bar anyone for any circumstance.
They've actually been accepted by the British Commonwealth Nations (And a few others) for over 30 years.
The issue was originally the passport not being modernized and that there was no guarantee that Canada and the US would allow the team to return. The US offered a waiver, Britain still said no.
I somewhat agree, and I still place the bulk of the blame on our leaders, but Britain's concerns were met and they still barred them entry.
I'm not sure what you mean by charades though. These people don't hop back and forth from Canadian to Haudenosaunee. Hence why they wouldn't get Canadian passports. There's nothing "Charades" like about it. The Haudenosaunee that carry the Haudenosaunee passport, are a sovereign people, even Canada recognizes/forces that.
When I and my oldest were born, we were issued a "Proof of live birth", not a birth certificate, because at that time, we were recognized as not being Canadian, but Six Nations. Not because of anything we asked for. The hospital/governmental regulations simply registered the birth of Six Nations children as such.
This isn't as simple as some people think it is.
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