Arizona's Immigration Law

[ironsides]

Arizona’s hard-hitting immigration law is driving [COLOR=#366388 !important][COLOR=#366388 !important]Hispanics[/COLOR][/COLOR] out of the state weeks before the controversial law goes into effect.

Although concrete figures are not available, anecdotal evidence suggests Hispanics, both legal residents and
illegal immigrants, are starting to flee.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/307229

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Arizona’s hard-hitting immigration law is driving [COLOR=#366388 !important][COLOR=#366388 !important]Hispanics[/COLOR][/COLOR] out of the state weeks before the controversial law goes into effect.

Although concrete figures are not available, anecdotal evidence suggests Hispanics, both legal residents and
illegal immigrants, are starting to flee.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/307229

That exactly is the problem, ironsides. Legal Hispanic residents are starting to flee. If they are lawful citizens of USA, why is Arizona made off limits for them, why should they be made to feel second class citizens in Arizona, so that they want to leave?

What is happening in Arizona is a kind of ethnic cleansing, Arizona is being purged of its Hispanic population, both legal and illegal. Maybe that was the intention of Republicans ll along, to make Arizona lily white once again.

After all if they can purge Arizona of all Hispanics, their political hold over Arizona will become much stronger, they can hope to stay in power in Arizona perpetually.

 

[ironsides]

Half of Americans oppose Obama's immigration lawsuit

Americans reject President Barack Obama's lawsuit against Arizona's controversial immigration law, with only a third supporting the move, according to a [COLOR=#366388 !important][COLOR=#366388 !important]Gallup [COLOR=#366388 !important]poll[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR] released Friday.
With key midterm elections just around the corner in November, the Obama administration is facing strong support for the law, which makes it a crime to be in the state -- bordering Mexico -- without proper immigration papers.


Half of Americans oppose Obama's immigration lawsuit: poll - Yahoo! News

 

[Mowich]

Another article about common sense:

Arizona’s Ugly but Necessary Immigration Law - Jonah Goldberg - National Review Online

Good, well-balanced article, YK. I cannot imagine how difficult it must be for people in Arizona when faced with the crime caused by illegal immigrants. In all honesty, I do not blame them for acting in the face of inaction on the part of the Feds. Something has to be done and if it means that citizens have to carry papers with them, then so be it. Why should law abiding citizens be faced with mounting crime and the increasing cost of policing? Why should people who have taken the steps to immigrate legally have to sit back and watch as a bunch of drug-addled criminals sneak across the border and establish footholds in the state. They shouldn't and Arizona by enacting this legislation is within their right to do so, IMHO.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Good, well-balanced article, YK. I cannot imagine how difficult it must be for people in Arizona when faced with the crime caused by illegal immigrants. In all honesty, I do not blame them for acting in the face of inaction on the part of the Feds. Something has to be done and if it means that citizens have to carry papers with them, then so be it. Why should law abiding citizens be faced with mounting crime and the increasing cost of policing? Why should people who have taken the steps to immigrate legally have to sit back and watch as a bunch of drug-addled criminals sneak across the border and establish footholds in the state. They shouldn't and Arizona by enacting this legislation is within their right to do so, IMHO.

All this hysteria about crime has been whipped up by Republicans, for political purposes. If you look at crime rate in Arizona, it has dropped substantially in recent years. I don't know if there has been a significant increase in the population of illegals in recent years. But if there has been, one can only conclude that illegals commit crimes at a much lower rate than citizens.

 

[ironsides]

All this hysteria about crime has been whipped up by Republicans, for political purposes. If you look at crime rate in Arizona, it has dropped substantially in recent years. I don't know if there has been a significant increase in the population of illegals in recent years. But if there has been, one can only conclude that illegals commit crimes at a much lower rate than citizens.

SJP: The drug war along the border is quite real and has nothing to do with Red Neck Republicans.

The drug crime in Arizona, Texas, New Mexico and California is not a Republican plot. It is a real war that has been going on for years and only now has it gotten worse "Pinal County Sheriff: Mexican drug cartels now control parts of Arizona."

Here is an excerpt from MaryEllen Resendez's article on ABC15.com:
"Two men shot earlier this week could be the result of the ongoing battle between Mexican drug cartels now spilling over deep into Arizona, officials say. Pinal County investigators say an area known as the smuggling corridor now stretches from Mexico's border to metro Phoenix. The area , once an area for family hiking and off road vehicles has government signs warning residents of the drug and human smugglers. Night vision cameras have photographed military armed cartel members delivering drugs to vehicles along Highway 8.
http://borderviolenceanalysis.typepad.com/mexicos_drug_war/2010/06/pinal-county-sheriff-mexican-drug-cartels-now-control-parts-of-arizona.html

Nogales, the main city in the region, which shares a border with the Arizona city of the same name, has had 131 murders so far this year, nearly surpassing 135 for all of 2009, according to a tally by the newspaper Diario de Sonora. That includes two heads found Thursday stuffed side by side between the bars of a cemetery fence.
http://kdka.com/national/Drugs.Mexico.Arizona.2.1788937.html

 

[SirJosephPorter]

SJP: The drug war along the border is quite real and has nothing to do with Red Neck Republicans.

The drug crime in Arizona, Texas, New Mexico and California is not a Republican plot. It is a real war that has been going on for years and only now has it gotten worse "Pinal County Sheriff: Mexican drug cartels now control parts of Arizona."

Here is an excerpt from MaryEllen Resendez's article on ABC15.com:
"Two men shot earlier this week could be the result of the ongoing battle between Mexican drug cartels now spilling over deep into Arizona, officials say. Pinal County investigators say an area known as the smuggling corridor now stretches from Mexico's border to metro Phoenix. The area , once an area for family hiking and off road vehicles has government signs warning residents of the drug and human smugglers. Night vision cameras have photographed military armed cartel members delivering drugs to vehicles along Highway 8.
http://borderviolenceanalysis.typepad.com/mexicos_drug_war/2010/06/pinal-county-sheriff-mexican-drug-cartels-now-control-parts-of-arizona.html

Nogales, the main city in the region, which shares a border with the Arizona city of the same name, has had 131 murders so far this year, nearly surpassing 135 for all of 2009, according to a tally by the newspaper Diario de Sonora. That includes two heads found Thursday stuffed side by side between the bars of a cemetery fence.
http://kdka.com/national/Drugs.Mexico.Arizona.2.1788937.html

But what are the total crime statistics, ironsides? Notwithstanding the drug war (and drug was must be fought, there is no question about it), overall crime in USA and in Arizona is on a downward path, has been for years now.

 

[YukonJack]

SirJosephPorter, do you include in TOTAL crimes the fact that being in the United States illegally is a crime itself?

I did not think so.

Poll: Nearly 6 in 10 Back Arizona Immigration Law - ABC News

And yet, the Annointed One sues Arizona.

Do you think ABC is a conservative outfit?

 

[ironsides]

But what are the total crime statistics, ironsides? Notwithstanding the drug war (and drug was must be fought, there is no question about it), overall crime in USA and in Arizona is on a downward path, has been for years now.

Normal so called murder, robberies, muggings, home invasions that normally happened may be down overall, but the drug wars are spilling over into the U.S. (all of the U.S.)

It is much easier to stop them very aggressively at the borders than to wait till they get settled everywhere. Immigration is regulated by the federal Goverment as it should be, but when they do not do their job it is up to the local governments to take over.


Atlanta is more than 1-thousand miles from the Mexican border. But the Southeast’s largest city has become a major distribution point for Mexican drug cartels.
Atlanta Becomes Hub for Mexican Drug Cartels On The Scene FOXNews.com

 

[SirJosephPorter]

SirJosephPorter, do you include in TOTAL crimes the fact that being in the United States illegally is a crime itself?

I did not think so.

Poll: Nearly 6 in 10 Back Arizona Immigration Law - ABC News

And yet, the Annointed One sues Arizona.

Do you think ABC is a conservative outfit?

I see you avoided answering my question about crime rate in Arizona, and rightly so, because you haven’t a leg to stand on.

In spite of the crimes committed by illegals, the overall crime rate in Arizona is on downward path, has been for decades.

As to Obama suing Arizona, if Justice Department thinks that any federal laws have been violated, it is their duty to sue in courts. Public opinion is irrelevant when it comes to constitutionality of any law. Constitutionality is not decided by opinion polls, but by the courts.

Normal so called murder, robberies, muggings, home invasions that normally happened may be down overall, but the drug wars are spilling over into the U.S. (all of the U.S.)

It is much easier to stop them very aggressively at the borders than to wait till they get settled everywhere. Immigration is regulated by the federal Goverment as it should be, but when they do not do their job it is up to the local governments to take over.


Atlanta is more than 1-thousand miles from the Mexican border. But the Southeast’s largest city has become a major distribution point for Mexican drug cartels.
Atlanta Becomes Hub for Mexican Drug Cartels On The Scene FOXNews.com

OK, so at least you had the honesty to admit that crime rate in Arizona is indeed falling, has been falling for many years now.

And I assume number fo illegals has been rising. Do you think there is a correlation?

 

[ironsides]

I see you avoided answering my question about crime rate in Arizona, and rightly so, because you haven’t a leg to stand on.

In spite of the crimes committed by illegals, the overall crime rate in Arizona is on downward path, has been for decades.

As to Obama suing Arizona, if Justice Department thinks that any federal laws have been violated, it is their duty to sue in courts. Public opinion is irrelevant when it comes to constitutionality of any law. Constitutionality is not decided by opinion polls, but by the courts.



OK, so at least you had the honesty to admit that crime rate in Arizona is indeed falling, has been falling for many years now.

And I assume number fo illegals has been rising. Do you think there is a correlation?

The normal crimes I was referring to are those crimes committed normally by American citizens who live there. The Drug crimes are rising and those involved are mainly Mexicans or Central Americans. (either running the show, or smuggling in the drugs as they cross the border) Now here is a reason to allow racial profiling,

SARANAC LAKE, N.Y. – Sylvie Nelson's border crossings are anything but routine. [COLOR=#366388 !important][COLOR=#366388 !important]Customs [COLOR=#366388 !important]agents[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR] sometimes order her out of her car. Twice, they handcuffed her in front of her young children. Once, agents swarmed her car and handcuffed her husband, too.
She tells them: It's not me you want, it's a man with the same birth date and a similar name. Agents always confirm that and let her go.
Then it happens again. And again.

NY woman questioned again and again over ID mix-up - Yahoo! News

 

[YukonJack]

SirJosephPorter you raised the question in your post #685:

"All this hysteria about crime has been whipped up by Republicans, for political purposes. If you look at crime rate in Arizona, it has dropped substantially in recent years. I don't know if there has been a significant increase in the population of illegals in recent years. But if there has been, one can only conclude that illegals commit crimes at a much lower rate than citizens."

To which I replied (post #688)- just to clarify - with a question of my own, since without knowing your answer to this question my reply to your question would have vbeen totally meaningless:

"SirJosephPorter, do you include in TOTAL crimes the fact that being in the United States illegally is a crime itself?"

In typical liberal way, you avoided answering and started blabbing and repeating unsubstantiated nonsense thus (post #690):

"I see you avoided answering my question about crime rate in Arizona, and rightly so, because you haven’t a leg to stand on.

In spite of the crimes committed by illegals, the overall crime rate in Arizona is on downward path, has been for decades.

As to Obama suing Arizona, if Justice Department thinks that any federal laws have been violated, it is their duty to sue in courts. Public opinion is irrelevant when it comes to constitutionality of any law. Constitutionality is not decided by opinion polls, but by the courts."

So, let me ask you again: Do your statistics realize the FACT that being in America illegally is, in itself, a crime??

Or do YOU think that sneaking into somebody else's country is OK?

 

[petros]

When you get down to the nitty gritty of it all your right YJ. Technically the State is the higher power not the Feds. It is only in recent history that the Feds have been muscling in where they don't belong. This is one of them regardless of the morrality of the situation.

This isn't about crime. It's a tax grab and cracking down on not the illegal labour but the tax revenues lost due to illegal employers.

What makes more money for the IRS? Legal taxable labour or cheap labour?

 

[YukonJack]

petros, that is why the Catholic Church supports illegal aliens in the United States.

A Mexican in Mexico = 10 pesos.
A Mexican in America = 10 dollars.

And I say that as a disillusuioned Catholic.

 

[petros]

petros, that is why the Catholic Church supports illegal aliens in the United States.

A Mexican in Mexico = 10 pesos.
A Mexican in America = 10 dollars.

And I say that as a disillusuioned Catholic.

Go to the 911 page and read my list of Jesuits in the US Govt and the whole Mexico thing comes into perspective. Many claim it's the Zionists who run things but in reality it's the RCC.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

So, let me ask you again: Do your statistics realize the FACT that being in America illegally is, in itself, a crime??

Or do YOU think that sneaking into somebody else's country is OK?

I don't know if it is crime, YJ. Is it counted in crime statistics? If it is, then it is a crime, if not, it isn't. Anyway even if it is a crime, it would be a federal crime, and none of Arizona's business.

When you get down to the nitty gritty of it all your right YJ. Technically the State is the higher power not the Feds. It is only in recent history that the Feds have been muscling in where they don't belong. This is one of them regardless of the morrality of the situation.

This isn't about crime. It's a tax grab and cracking down on not the illegal labour but the tax revenues lost due to illegal employers.

What makes more money for the IRS? Legal taxable labour or cheap labour?

Immigration and enforcement of immigration laws has always been a federal matter, never a state matter.

 

[TenPenny]

I don't know if it is crime, YJ. Is it counted in crime statistics? If it is, then it is a crime, if not, it isn't. Anyway even if it is a crime, it would be a federal crime, and none of Arizona's business.

So, using your logic, are you saying that the dropping crime rates in Arizona that you keep referring to do NOT include any federal crimes?

 

[ironsides]

I don't know if it is crime, YJ. Is it counted in crime statistics? If it is, then it is a crime, if not, it isn't. Anyway even if it is a crime, it would be a federal crime, and none of Arizona's business.



Immigration and enforcement of immigration laws has always been a federal matter, never a state matter.

It is a crime, and a Federal Crime is enforceable by any agent of the law, including the local sheriff. They of course must turn the prisoner over to federal authorities ASAP. A law broken in say Washington is enforceable by a peace officer in New York if they catch them in NY. Computers are wonderful things. To quote Judge Dredd, 'a Law is da law".

 

[ironsides]

Well folks, here are the numbers The following information is compiled from Federal Bureau of Investigation and Department of Homeland Security reports:

* 83% of warrants for murder in Phoenix are for illegal aliens.

* 86% of warrants for murder in Albuquerque are for illegal aliens.

* 75% of those on the most wanted list in Los Angeles , Phoenix and Albuquerque are illegal aliens.

* 24.9% of all inmates in California detention centers are Mexican nationals

* 40.1% of all inmates in Arizona detention centers are Mexican nationals

* 48.2% of all inmates in New Mexico detention centers are Mexican nationals

* 29% (630,000) convicted illegal alien felons fill our state and Federal prisons at a cost of $1.6 billion annually

* 53% plus of all investigated burglaries reported in California, New Mexico, Nevada, Arizona and Texas are perpetrated by illegal aliens.

* 50% plus of all gang members in Los Angeles are illegal aliens

* 71% plus of all apprehended cars stolen in 2005 in Texas, New Mexico,Arizona, Nevada and California were stolen by Illegal aliens or "transport coyotes".

* 47% of cited/stopped drivers in California have no license, no insurance and no registration for the vehicle. Of that 47%, 92% are illegal aliens.

* 63% of cited/stopped drivers in Arizona have no license, no insurance and no registration for the vehicle. Of that 63%, 97% are illegal aliens

* 66% of cited/stopped drivers in New Mexico have no license, no insurance and no registration for the vehicle. Of that 66% 98% are illegal aliens.

* 380,000 plus "anchor babies" were born in the US to illegal alien parents in just one year, making 380,000 babies automatically US citizens (which is UN-Constitutional; illegal).

* 97.2% of all costs incurred from those illegal births were paid by the American taxpayers. That is almost ALL of them !

 

[YukonJack]

The Arizona Law should have been:

Land mines along the border.
Shoot on sight and shoot to kill.

This method worked incredibly well for the former Soviet Union and its satellite enslaved countries to keep people in. There is no reason to think it could not work equally well to keep people out.