AGW Denial, The Greatest Scam in History?

Scott Free

House Member
May 9, 2007
3,893
46
48
BC
Alright, I'm done here. Evidently you hippies are going to believe whatever you want.

I'm not sure what you're all getting out of this. Does it feel good to belong to a "special" green club? Perhaps you think you sound like experts or you think you're gaining some prestige? Perhaps you feel more in control of your own lives.

I don't know. I don't care.

But I know dogmatism when I hear it.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
117,211
14,250
113
Low Earth Orbit
Didn't you get your fill when I schooled you in your ridiculous belief that geothermal energy would save the planet? Do you recall?... Have you you so quickly forgotten that despite your adherence to a personal belief that you - and especially your corporate operations - are in direct conflict with the very nonsense that you expound here?

You are still the very same hypocrite that you were on the Canada.com forums Iggy - for as much as things change, they are still the same.
No I didn't. you never taught me or anyone else **** all except your infatuation with old Japs.

Well Bubba? What is the cycle you kept talking about but never manifested any information?

Yup my business uses energy. Very little actually and thanks to federal regulations and bitching and whining from stockholders when I leave a drill site it's spotless.

So I'll ask you again what is the cycle you claim is behind the planetary climate and tectonic changes?

Anytime you are ready.

One more time because reality needs shoring up in this place.

Magnetic Pole Shift Vs. Global Warming.

Poles first:



An now the Global Warming with it's identical al gore rhythm.

 

captain morgan

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 28, 2009
28,429
148
63
A Mouse Once Bit My Sister
No I didn't. you never taught me or anyone else **** all except your infatuation with old Japs.

Whatever it is you're rattling-on about doesn't require racial slurs..

Grow up


Yup my business uses energy. Very little actually and thanks to federal regulations and bitching and whining from stockholders when I leave a drill site it's spotless.

So I'll ask you again what is the cycle you claim is behind the planetary climate and tectonic changes?


I suppose that green tech has advanced dramatically in that you are able to move lots of heavy equipment, personnel, supplies and eco-fuel into all those remote areas (accessible only by air possibly?)... And you manage to do it with very little energy requirements.

Out of curiosity, what do you consider "very little"?.. How many lbs do you use for mob/de-mob and operations?.. Do you truly believe that the average eco-warrior will support your contention it is very little?
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
117,211
14,250
113
Low Earth Orbit
Oh I almost forgot. Thanks for your tax money, I really appreciate the incentives and heavy breaks Harper is doling out.
 

AnnaG

Hall of Fame Member
Jul 5, 2009
17,507
117
63
Ohhh, it was a joke was it?

I didn't get that from your post. It appeared to be more of a simpleton's view of a subject that had no relevance, especially when you were called on it.
Wow! Back in kiddiegarden.
You know for someone that complained that Tonington attacks posters and whatnot, you seem to be right up there with what you accused him of. lmao

Who cares whether you get it or not?

"Called on it"? About what? Petros said the whole thing was concocted by Marxists and you agreed. All Les did was say that human involvement in global warming being concocted by Marxists was hilarious. It's a joke. And so far you deniers cannot prove that we haven't been an influence.

What difference does it make?!... Are you serious?

Don't you greenies get your panties all in a bunch the very minute that humanity emits more than the prescribed and predetermined amount of CO2 that is allotted to each person? I'd think that those societies that were building hundreds, if not thousands, of coal-fired electricity plants would get your hackles up.... Oh, I guess I forgot, it's only ghg's and CO2 produced from Western nations are evil - the rest are eco-friendly regardless of socio-economic elements.
hhhmmm Back in kiddiegarden again, huh?




Give 'er your best shot.
You wouldn't even know what hit you. You haven't yet. lol

I can only assume from your past posts that the best is yet to come.
It's evident so far that you deniers can't disprove AGW. Anything you've posted so far has had holes poked in it. The evidence still shows AGW. It's tough that you don't like it. Perhaps you need a binkie?




Oh?.. Does youre snide and condescending attitude count as an insult, or is that a privilege that you reserve exclusively for yourself?
I suppose it never occurred to you that that you simply see what you want? lmao If someone posts something that you'd think he was being sarcastic because that's what you expected?

As far as Tonnington is concerned; I have an opinion of that individual that I've expressed in (relatively) non-offensive terms.. He/she is who they are, but in the end, they will eat a massive dose of crow - just like yourself in terms of this issue... The only question that remains; will you (or Tonnington) be big enough to man-up and admit fault, or will you find minuscule and retarded reasons to absolve yourself(s) of responsibility.
I guess we'll have to wait and see which will be eating crow. :)

My bet is you'll look for any and all excuses to absolve yourself of taking ownership of your statements.
You're projecting your childish little character onto him. He's more scientist than a lot of scientists. He readily goes with the evidence as it comes in whether it completely reverses his previous conclusions or not. He's a grown up, unlike you. You'd lose your bet.

Let's see... Why don't you start with explaining - in the context of anthropogenic global warming - the preponderance of past periods of glaciation (absent mankind) and consequent recession of said glaciers (again, absent mankind).
I think he'd say natural cycles have an influence on glaciation and glacial subsidence. He's already said that a couple times. What he also said was that this present natural cycle has been modified by human intervention.

I am so looking forward to being educated in terms of "calling a spade a spade".
I doubt you'd know any education if you saw it. lol

I await (for a long time I'd imagine) seeing any kind of response to this that is SCIENTIFIC AND REPEATABLE... After all, you are the voice of science after all.

Good luck.. (I'll understand if you're unable to really respond (other than with excuses and rhetoric Like dinosaur farts for example)).
Like I said, I doubt you'd know it if you saw it. You haven't seemed to yet.



BTW, learn to spell before you elect to take the high road with others Forrest.
lmao Back to the childishness again.

Alright, I'm done here. Evidently you hippies are going to believe whatever you want.
And you scientific illiterate will still be worshiping your god of denial.

I'm not sure what you're all getting out of this. Does it feel good to belong to a "special" green club? Perhaps you think you sound like experts or you think you're gaining some prestige? Perhaps you feel more in control of your own lives.

I don't know. I don't care.

But I know dogmatism when I hear it.
.... but not when you speak it. lol

BTW, the definition of dogmatism is "the use of a system of ideas based upon insufficiently examined premises." Climate scientists are studying the event profusely. It's the deniers that can't seem to keep up.

Lets compare pole movement and global warming. What do you think we'll find?





Well. Those two graphs either scream correlation or it screams coincidence?

A fool would say coincidence.

The 1982 drop is a dead give a way.
Lemme see, the graph of temp anomalies has a rapid increase since about 1900. The graph of polar movement shows a shift after about 1970. That's a 70 year difference. So where did the heat from polar movement go during those 70 years? A scenic tour around the galaxy?

Here's another coincidence:


And from here http://www.michaelmandeville.com/earthchanges/gallery/Climate/2000_Year_Temperature_Comparison.png

 

captain morgan

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 28, 2009
28,429
148
63
A Mouse Once Bit My Sister
great post Anna... i especially like the part where you chastise all for acting childish to Les and then immediately launch into that very mode with Scott Free.

Congratulations, you take first prize.

BTW - A hint for ya. If Les elects to respond and exchange in a manner that is condescending and insulting, he can expect the same in return.
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
39,817
471
83
AnnaG said:
Lemme see, the graph of temp anomalies has a rapid increase since about 1900. The graph of polar movement shows a shift after about 1970. That's a 70 year difference. So where did the heat from polar movement go during those 70 years? A scenic tour around the galaxy?





great post Anna... i especially like the part where you chastise all for acting childish to Les and then immediately launch into that very mode with Scott Free.

Congratulations, you take first prize.

True, but you have to admit, the polar comment was pretty satisfying. It had that extra oomph of rational thought behind it.
 

captain morgan

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 28, 2009
28,429
148
63
A Mouse Once Bit My Sister
Oh I almost forgot. Thanks for your tax money, I really appreciate the incentives and heavy breaks Harper is doling out.

My pleasure... Afterall, we picked-up a royalty break and an exemption in property taxes from your province just recently.... It'll work out to be a ton of cash, enough to be bonused-out to the principals in a meaningful way.

I look at it as Petros personally paying our company to extract your resources and sell them on the open market.
 

AnnaG

Hall of Fame Member
Jul 5, 2009
17,507
117
63
great post Anna... i especially like the part where you chastise all for acting childish to Les and then immediately launch into that very mode with Scott Free.
Guilty. But I was only following your lead. :)

Congratulations, you take first prize.
Sorry, **** before shovel. You started it.

BTW - A hint for ya. If Les elects to respond and exchange in a manner that is condescending and insulting, he can expect the same in return.
Like I said, how do you know you aren't projecting your character flaws onto him? Here's some condescension: I don't think you can help yourself, but that's ok, we still love you. :)

Anytime you people want to get back to the topic ......
 

AnnaG

Hall of Fame Member
Jul 5, 2009
17,507
117
63
I don't disagree with that submission regarding polar migration. In the end, my point is that I believe that AGW is a myth.
lol I think you've made your position pretty clear, Cpt. :) But, please excuse us if we don't follow the same opinion.
 

Tonington

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 27, 2006
15,441
150
63
Changes in the magnetic field characterized by an abrupt change in the secular variation have been named "(geo)magnetic jerks" or "geomagnetic impulses". Six jerks of global extent have occurred during the past century: in 1901, 1913, 1925, 1969, 1978 and 1992. The last three jerks can be seen clearly as abrupt changes in the slope of the annual change in H at Resolute Bay.

....

Well. Those two graphs either scream correlation or it screams coincidence?

A fool would say coincidence.

The 1982 drop is a dead give a way.

A fool would jump to conclusions without more data. Your source doesn't have data, proxy or otherwise for the "H changement annual" whatever that is, before the 1960's, even though it assures us that these changes are consistent with magnetic burps that happened earlier in the century.

More than that, the drop in tropospheric temperatures in 1982 has a known cause, the volcano in Mexico known as El Chichon. The change associated with El Chichon is seen clearly in the stratosphere, where the reflected solar from the El Chichon aerosols produced a spike in temperature, and a plunge in tropospheric temps.

Sometimes correlations are spurious. I mean it would be ludicrous to say that firefighters cause more damage to property. Yet they are correlated.

This is a topic that has been investigated. Here's a comment to a paper which did investigate the climate geomagnetic link, and they find the connection reported in the paper to be without merit.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
117,211
14,250
113
Low Earth Orbit
Nice article. Thanks.

The most intriguing feature may be the recently proposed archeomagnetic jerks, i.e. fairly abrupt (
100 yr long) geomagnetic field variations found at irregular intervals over the past few millennia, using the archeological record from Europe to the Middle East. These seem to correlate with significant climatic events in the eastern North Atlantic region. A proposed mechanism involves variations in the geometry of the geomagnetic field (f.i. tilt of the dipole to lower latitudes), resulting in enhanced cosmic-ray induced nucleation of clouds. No forcing factor, be it changes in CO2 concentration in the atmosphere or changes in cosmic ray flux modulated by solar activity and geomagnetism, or possibly other factors, can at present be neglected or shown to be the overwhelming single driver of climate change in past centuries. Intensive data acquisition is required to further probe indications that the Earth's and Sun's magnetic fields may have significant bearing on climate change at certain time scales.
Funny how they included CO2 in that highlighted statement.

Too bad geomagentism can't be taxed huh?
 

Tonington

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 27, 2006
15,441
150
63
Let's see... Why don't you start with explaining - in the context of anthropogenic global warming - the preponderance of past periods of glaciation (absent mankind) and consequent recession of said glaciers (again, absent mankind).

OK. What's happening now is the interglacial that was edging towards another ice age has been halted by our unintended efforts at increasing the opacity of our atmosphere to infrared radiation.

The preponderance of past periods of glaciation is related directly to what we are doing now. The cycle of glaciations follows the Milankovitch cycles, parameters of Earth's orbit, the precession, obliquity, and eccentricity. The forcing imposed by these changes in our orbit reduces insolation in the Northern Hemisphere. Ice sheets begin to grow, Earth's albedo increases, and so the planet reflects more sunlight, which draws the temperature down further. A negative feedback. There is another feedback. The oceans will absorb more gases as the temperature drops. So again, another negative feedback drops the temperature as greenhouse gases leave the atmosphere (H20, CO2, CH4, NOx).

Now as the glacial cycle moves onwards, the orbital parameters come back towards a positive forcing. As the ice sheets begin to recede, the planet starts to warm up as the albedo decreases. All of those greenhouse gases that were sequestered by cooler temperatures begin to outgas from the ocean. This is another feedback, because as more greenhouse gases enter the atmosphere, they trap more of the outgoing reflected solar radiation.

The so-called lag between temperature and carbon dioxide. In fact this phenomenon was predicted by some eminent climatologists before the data came in which showed that atmospheric carbon dioxide lags the increasing temperature.

Conveniently, you can read that paper here:
http://www.atmos.washington.edu/2003Q4/211/articles_required/Lorius90_ice-core.pdf

The forcing of the Milankovitch cycles is not large enough to cause these cycles alone. The feedback in the climate system make the cycle of glaciations possible.

(I'll understand if you're unable to really respond ).
Why? This stuff isn't arcane knowledge. Anyone can find it by reading ...science! Science is great!

As a supplement to that old paper I linked to above, a more contemporary, and viewer friendly medium is available on the link between carbon dioxide and the climate. It's a talk given at the American Geophysical Union, and includes slides of many up-to-date, and even some papers that were in-print (so not available) at the time.

A23A

It's called, "The biggest control knob: carbon dioxide in Earth's climate history"

It's very good. It explains many more of the issues involved with carbon dioxide, such as carbonate rock weathering. If you're actually interested in this stuff, it's well worth the time (roughly an hour long video).
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
117,211
14,250
113
Low Earth Orbit


Why no ice on Siberia and Mongolia? Because the magentic north pole was in the southern part of Hudson Bay at the time and it had nothing to do with CO2. Go ****ing figure!
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
117,211
14,250
113
Low Earth Orbit
What's happening now is the interglacial that was edging towards another ice age has been halted by our unintended efforts at increasing the opacity of our atmosphere to infrared radiation.
Do the magnetic poles moving change the opacity of the atmoshpere and drag CO2 around like it does the ice caps?
 

Tonington

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 27, 2006
15,441
150
63
No, the moving planetary axis explains why the ice is found where it is, and why carbon dioxide changed as it did.