What do we think now?
- Thread starter JLM
- Start date
well, I guess if you weren't there, then your opinion comes from someone else, so what JLM is saying makes
sense, because you both are hearing from many other people as well as us, and if those reflections are all
different 'to a point', how can you really know what to believe. You just have to pick out the one that
you feel good about, and go with it.
Doesn't do much good to read all sorts of different slants on the 50's 60's and so on, because that is
also someone else's opinion, so that puts you back to square one.
What I knew about Whalley's Corner in the early 50s was from a friend who had relatives who lived there. My first trip off Vancouver Island was in 1959 when I got a summer job in Manning Park. It was a long bus ride along Kingways across the Pattullo Bridge and through every hick town in the Fraser Valley. Seems to me we left Vancouver Bus Depot about 1 P.M. had supper at the Hope bus depot and arrived at Manning Park about 8 P.M.- A three hour drive today!!!!!!!! But that was '59. :lol:
I don't own the 50's or the 60's etc. I do own my memories of what it was like where I grew up and that's all I'm saying and I think Talloola is trying to say the same thing. I don't think Talloola has moved too far from her birth area nor have I. Maybe it's a little different for those in your family. Maybe they are from other provinces and it was just different there. Their memories are theirs and I'm not trying to take anything from them. However, because they have different memories from us doesn't make our memories wrong.;-)
You were there in 1959. A wee bundle but you were there. As Talloola has already said - I was there as a young kid but I was there. Anyone who hasn't lived in a small town, particularly around that time and even years and years later, may not realize that the same things simply don't happen in small towns as they do in the cities. Even things like music. It took about 2 years for a popular Vancouver song to reach popularity where I lived. The world moved at a much slower pace. Like it or not, I think all of you have to accept our memories as they are. What I really don't understand is why you wouldn't accept them.
"An idealistic view". I don't know how a person can classify a "view" which is really a memory of growing up in this case, as idealistic. That's like saying Talloola dreamt her life. It's saying to her that she saw it as she wanted it to be. It's not like that at all.
No, I don't need to pick out one viewpoint.
You say drugs were rare, only amopng the riffraff... well, the riffraff were my family I guess. Because my great uncle struggled with drugs. That's what happens I guess when you get to live on the margins of a society because you're one of its undesirables (gay). And my aunty got shipped off to an institution because she suffered some brain damage at birth. My mother-in-law was in residential school, and a large number of the rest of my family are native, so they certainly weren't accepted. Do I feel somehow 'good' about reflecting back about what life was like in the 50's for some of my family members? No. Who would given what it was? So the times I've pointed out that you guys think there were no drugs or that they didn't effect 'good' families, only because they didn't effect yours, and newspapers didn't address it the same, I mean it. When I talk about the shift between then and now of over coverage of horrible events, I meant it.
I'll listen to all the views, but I will reflect on them in light of ALL I know, not just the views of three people on an internet forum.
Speaking for myself only, I never thought that individual cases didn't exist, just talking about general trends. I've always maintained there are exceptions to every rule. :smile:
The OP stated: Poll: - Life better now or in 1959
We responded with our memories of that time. OUR real memories of what was happening where we lived then as opposed to now. Karrie you are responding in regard to other peoples memories of how it was then and it sounds like they are pretty much from your own family. I think that the question was a personal one and I see no reason why anyone would argue what we experienced. I see no reason to dispute what your family went through. I just believe what you have to say because I don't believe you would lie about it. I think more than anything you are angry that your family went through some really bad times that didn't hit on all of us. I'm really sorry they did but I know that there wasn't anything I could have done different that would have changed that for them. I can only relate how it was for me and mine. This may come as a surprize but I honestly did not know that residential schools existed. I never knew about them until about 20 years ago. There certainly wasn't any where I lived and there were lots of native kids in the school I attended. I grew up in a very multi-cultural town even then. Lucky for me I guess because I grew up friends with Indians, chinese kids, japenese kids, italian kids and we all hung out together. My Gramma was half indian. Her obit began with the words "The kindly Mrs. White", and it was front page news of the local paper. I still have the paper and I never even knew my Gramma.
All I'm asking of you is to respect our memories just as we respect the memories of your family and friends. You are saying that we're making it personal. What else can a person do if they are to answer the question? We have to answer what we personally lived.
Well, TP, someone has to tell stories countering SJP's claims about the rosy utopia we live in today. lol
.... with scammers up the yinyang, street gangs, drug wars, oil wars, environmental devastation, sleazy outfits with gobs of power like Halliburton, companies like Enron, market speculators and real estate moguls playing games with economies and lives, etc. Yup. Lots more morals these days. And according to you, it isn't ok for people to denigrate others because of gender, skin-color, etc. but it is ok that bystanders get massacred by gangs, people get skinned out of their life savings by legal companies and illegal scammers, people screwing up the planet to satisfy their greed, etc. You seem to have a really twisted view of morality.
Seriously, I still can't see where life in general is any better today than 1959. It's just a little different.
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Memories are funny things. They seem to cover up the ugly with a lot of idyllic stuff so we can all live Leave It To Beaver. Ain't it funny how some folk hide from their yersterdays.
Yup. Everyone has a different view of the world they grew up in. No-one can say these individual stories are all accurate or all horsepuckey.
But, there are people like me, Karrie, etc. that do listen to all the stories and develop some fairly accurate general descriptions of what life is like. It's called anthropology, psychology, and history. Anthro (cultural anthro) studies cultures, psych studies behavior, and history studies the past.
That reminds me of something I learned back in college, stuff that happened to the poor or middle class families also happened to the wealthy ones, too. Stuff like kids getting brain damage because of falls, people with addiction problems, etc. and what the difference there is not the frequency of occurrences, it is how well the wealthy can hide them. So "riffraff"-ism is not a class trait. And I think a lot of people went through life thinking it was pretty good and did not notice some of the realities that went on around them so now they think it was all idyllic.
Fortunately, I think the majority of families remained un-"riffraff"-ish despite having the odd element gone astray for whatever reason. And I think the same is true today, that most families are pretty cool.
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firstly, I have never referred to anyone as 'riff raff', and secondly I've repeated several times that my
life was in the city, with lots of people, large schools, and it was mainstream society, so I'll repeat
that again.
I've said before that anyone familiar with the first nations and how they were back then will have to
come forward and 'speak from their recollection', because I had no contact with first nations back in the
fifties, sixties, but in the seventies I was able to meet many first nations people, because of our
connections with many girls ball teams, and we went onto reservations, and they came to us, and we
participated in sports together.
There were many different kids in those 1500 in jr. high, but almost 100% were from
1st,2nd,3rd generations brits, and the rest all over europe and other places, including
far east, but I could count on one hand the number of first nations kids that ever
attended any of the schools I went to, so I really didn't have any contact, and didn't
even think about first nations kids, (we only knew of them as indians back then,
thankfully that has been dropped long ago).
Don't know anything about residential schools, so if you are quite educated on that subject I will listen
to you, 'and believe' you.
My views were of the 50's only, that is early 50's thru to 59'60, and that just about does it when it
comes to drugs with school kids and young people, someone else will have to continue on from there.
I do not generalize, I zeroed on my 'time' only, not anyone elses, and 'my' city living only, not anything
elses, but because I grew up in the city, went to school with lots of kids, and 1500 in jr. high, that
does give me a very large view of the drug 'non problem' in schools at that time, there was none.
The problem here is 'that' I have been accused of generalizing, and have not done that, i have stuck to
my area of expertise.
I will only speak for myself, and others have to do the same, and we shouldn't clump in together, as we
all have individual lives and pasts.
I would love to hear from those 'who know' of other areas of life in the 50's, those which I am not familiar
with, always like to learn.
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Got a question for JLM, VI, and taloola. How is it that your personal experiences and opinions concerning the 50's vs now are perfectly valid, yet my personal experiences and opinions concerning the u.s. are bigoted, "anti-american" AND incorrect?
How are your experiences and opinions more valid on this subject than mine on another?
How are your experiences and opinions more valid on this subject than mine on another?
I can't answer to that, when it comes to the u.s., none of us were there, grew up there, and get
our info from other sources, there are hundreds.
If you lived in the u.s. and have events to share with us that you were part of, I would be glad
to hear about it, and I will believe you, no reason not to, it would be your problem if you came
here and made up stories, no one elses, and I don't think anyone does that.
No, my experience with idiot americans. The majority of which were uneducated, selfcentered, egotistical morons. I have been told time and time again that MY experience and opinion is completely wrong. As a matter of fact talloola, you have been one of the people in the past that have "objected" to my opinion of americans.
So, again, why is my opinion of that worth less than your rosy recollections and opinion of the 50's. They are both based on a narrow, personal experience and perspective only.
thank you Anna.
talloola and VI, I never once said you didn't have the experience and the childhood you had. I pointed out some of the differences between then and now. I have NEVER said your memory is wrong about your experience. Go back and read my first posts in this thread, PLEASE. They were regarding the differences between the 50's and now in terms of news coverage, etc., not about YOUR personal experience.