Arizona's Immigration Law

SirJosephPorter

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There is an alternative motive for the Democrats not to enforce the law, and that is these illegals families members who are legal will support them come election time. The Hispanic vote outside of Florida is very democratic. (In Florida, Cubans usually vote Republican)

Quite so, Hispanics are natural Democratic voters, and they vote Democratic by a margin of 2 to 1 (and I understand the margin is increasing, more and more Hispanics are voting democratic). So no doubt Democrats have reasons not to enforce immigration laws.

However, so do Republicans. Big business can get cheap labour from Mexico which increases their profit. Instead of paying say 10$ per hour to a legal, they can get away by paying 5 $ an hour to an illegal. Since big business is a natural constituency of Republican Party, Republicans also are not inclined to enforce immigration laws. That is why Republicans did nothing when they were in power in Washington for 12 years.

But Arizona Republicans found a happy way out. Their bill targets only Hispanics (democratic constituency), while leaving the big business alone (the Republican constituency).

The bill is politically motivated (and of course, racist and xenophobic).
 

SirJosephPorter

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And that is the article that quotes WorldNetDaily as the absolute truth ironsides. The story may be true or not, I don't know. However, if he had quoted CNN, ABC, CBS etc., chances would be greater that the story is true. When they quote WorldNetDaily, we don't know if the story is true, WorldNetDaily is not exactly known for truth (it claims that Obama is an illegal alien, for instance).
 

SirJosephPorter

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Ad hominem much?

You make all sorts of crazy accusations as well. For instance you have no information which could in anyway support your assertion that it is probable that WorldNetDaily wants Obama arrested. But occasionally you say something factually correct. It's why I don't ignore anyone here.

Do you read WorldNetDaily? I do read it from time to time. It is full of articles claiming that Obama is an illegal alien, that he was born in Kenya and is not a US citizen. Now, I don't know if they actually have said that Obama should be arrested (I am not a regular reader), but the implication is clear. If Obama is an illegal alien and he ran for presidency under false pretenses, what else could be done with Obama except arrest him?
 

DaSleeper

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The bill is politically motivated (and of course, racist and xenophobic).
Now you keep repeating that about Arizona Immigration Bill but you fail to produce any proof and keep sidetracking the issue. The only thing you produce is smoke... even when it states ....twice... in the bill that profiling is illegal..
Now ..put up proof about your accusations or STFU!
 

SirJosephPorter

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Now you keep repeating that about Arizona Immigration Bill but you fail to produce any proof and keep sidetracking the issue. The only thing you produce is smoke... even when it states ....twice... in the bill that profiling is illegal..
Now ..put up proof about your accusations or STFU!

I have already given my reasoning as to why I think the bill is racially motivated (there is racist history in the South in general and in Arizona in particular). If you don't agree with me and get frustrated, well, that is not my problem.
 

DaSleeper

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I have already given my reasoning as to why I think the bill is racially motivated (there is racist history in the South in general and in Arizona in particular). If you don't agree with me and get frustrated, well, that is not my problem.
Your personal reasoning don't mean diddly squat in a court of law and you know it so you're still blowing smoke!
 

Tonington

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Do you read WorldNetDaily? I do read it from time to time. It is full of articles claiming that Obama is an illegal alien, that he was born in Kenya and is not a US citizen.

Can you provide one article where the writers at World Net Daily claim this? I know they've covered Philip Berg, and he has implied that Obama maybe an illegal alien, but I've not seen any outright claims by WND that Obama is an illegal alien.

And like I said, even if they did, that doesn't mean that they can't be right about other things....that is what makes an ad hominem a logical fallacy.
 

Tonington

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Here's a good read from Newsweek, well worth the full read:

Last Friday, supporters of Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer posted an amusing little video on YouTube showing a Kermit-ish frog singing about the need to read and then going into a funk after screening clips of Obama administration officials admitting they opined on the recent Arizona immigration bill without having, well, read it.

Fair enough. You have to take a good look at the law to appreciate how truly sinister it really is. But Brewer and her supporters need to do their homework, too. A little basic research would have shown them that big cities with large immigrant populations are safer places to live.

This is not just a matter of random correlation being mistaken for causation. A new study by sociologist Tim Wadsworth of the University of Colorado at Boulder carefully evaluates the various factors behind the statistics that show a massive drop in crime during the 1990s at a time when immigration rose dramatically. In a peer-reviewed paper appearing in the June 2010 issue of Social Science Quarterly, Wadsworth argues not only that “cities with the largest increases in immigration between 1990 and 2000 experienced the largest decreases in homicide and robbery,” which we knew, but that after considering all the other explanations, rising immigration “was partially responsible.”

To deny that reality and ignore its implications is likely to make life more dangerous all over America, diverting resources away from the fight against violent crime and breaking down the hard-won trust between cops and the communities where they work. Several police chiefs tried to make exactly this point Wednesday on a visit to Washington to talk about the Arizona law, due to take effect in July, and the bad precedent it sets. “This is not a law that increases public safety. This is a bill that makes it much harder for us to do our jobs,” said Los Angeles Police Chief Charlie Beck. “Crime will go up if this becomes law in Arizona or in any other state.”

click here to read the rest of the article
 

SirJosephPorter

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Can you provide one article where the writers at World Net Daily claim this? I know they've covered Philip Berg, and he has implied that Obama maybe an illegal alien, but I've not seen any outright claims by WND that Obama is an illegal alien.

And like I said, even if they did, that doesn't mean that they can't be right about other things....that is what makes an ad hominem a logical fallacy.

There is such a thing as reputation. Would you believe an article in national Enquirer? If not, why not? Anything printed in the Enquirer is not reliable because they have printed many false or wildly exaggerated stories in the past. So most people would not put any credence to anything printed in the Enquirer unless it is confirmed by a reputable, independent source.

WorldNeTDaily is not really any different from the Enquirer. There is no question of ad hominum attack here; one must consider the reputation of the source.

So, maybe you will believe anything you read in the Enquirer as Gospel truth (after all, just because it is published in the Enquirer, doesn’t mean it is false, does it?). But I wouldn’t.

As to one article about WND claiming that Obama is not a US citizen, the following website give a whole bunch of articles by WND on the subject.

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=98546
 

Tonington

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Asking if someone is constitutionally eligible to serve as President of the United States of America, is not the same thing as claiming they are an illegal alien.

Logic fail.

I'll take that as a no then. No, you cannot provide one article that shows where any WND writer claims Obama is an illegal alien.
 

DaSleeper

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Asking if someone is constitutionally eligible to serve as President of the United States of America, is not the same thing as claiming they are an illegal alien.

Logic fail.

I'll take that as a no then. No, you cannot provide one article that shows where any WND writer claims Obama is an illegal alien.

Not only Logic ;-) But reading with blinders on:roll:....if he read your link at all..... Christopher Dickey's writings were actually agreeing with a lot of what he was saying:lol:

Now ain't that a hoot...:lol:
 
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SirJosephPorter

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Asking if someone is constitutionally eligible to serve as President of the United States of America, is not the same thing as claiming they are an illegal alien.

Logic fail.

I'll take that as a no then. No, you cannot provide one article that shows where any WND writer claims Obama is an illegal alien.

Why would somebody ask this question in the first place, unless he thinks the answer is no (that he is not a US citizen and therefore not eligible to serve). Did WND ask the same question about Bush? It did not because it knew that Bush was eligible to serve.

WND has spend considerable amount of money and resources to probe into Obama's eligibility to serve, why? Is that beacause they don't doubt that he is eligible to serve, they simply spend so much time and resources for the fun of it?

Not a chance. Anybody who has spent so much effort in proving that Obama is not eligible to serve (as is given in the website I quoted) probably is sure that he isn't.

All these brither nuts, who have brought hundreds of lawsuits against Obama, petitioning the Supreme Court that Obama is not eligible to serve and should be arrested (the suits brought about by the blessing, and sometimes financial support of WND), are you saying that they don’t think Obama is ineligible to serve? Then why are they wasting everybody’s time?
 

SirJosephPorter

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Asking if someone is constitutionally eligible to serve as President of the United States of America, is not the same thing as claiming they are an illegal alien.

Logic fail.

I'll take that as a no then. No, you cannot provide one article that shows where any WND writer claims Obama is an illegal alien.

I have given you a whole bunch of articles. Most of them claim that Obama is not eligible to serve.
 

Tonington

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What part of not eligible to serve equals illegal alien? Are there US citizens who are ineligible to be President?

Logic fail x2.
 

SirJosephPorter

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What part of not eligible to serve equals illegal alien? Are there US citizens who are ineligible to be President?

Logic fail x2.

There are two type of birthers (unlike you, I have read what the birthers are actually saying). One class claims that Obama may be a US citizen, but is not born in USA, and therefore is ineligible to be the president. Another type claims that Obama is not a US citizen, never was (where are his naturalization papers?), and should be deported to Kenya or to Indonesia.
 

Tonington

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You misunderstand. I have read what birthers are saying. I'm asking you specifically to back up something you said specifically about one website.

You haven't posted a WND article that outright claimed Obama is an illegal alien. That was your claim, and now you're back peddling like a Pro-bowl cornerback.