Tory G8 abortion stance
- Thread starter Socrates the Greek
- Start date
Re: What rights should a fetus have?
It needs special clearance from the miscarriage police.
It needs special clearance from the miscarriage police.
Re: Henry Morgantaler- Saint or Common Criminal?
I'm not in principle a supporter of abortion, the feminist demand I heard so much in my youth, "free abortion on demand," never had any traction with me, it sounded too much like killing inconvenient people. The time to exercise control over your body is before you get pregnant, not after, but things don't always work out that way. And it's also an ethical dilemma I'll never face, I can't get pregnant. Even if I were the father of a fetus a woman wanted to abort and I objected, I think what she wants trumps what I want. I'm not the one who's pregnant, I do not have the right to bend her to my will. I can also see a case that she doesn't have the right to bend me to her will either, but we have to draw a line somewhere, and I draw it this way: the one who had it last calls the shots.
I'd like to think so too. We were just discussing the statistics and what they might imply, I don't think any value judgment was expressed or implied. I seriously doubt that the justices who struck down the abortion laws were thinking in terms of culling the disadvantaged, it appears to be, assuming the conclusion is correct, an unintended consequence that comes clear only in hindsight.
I'm not in principle a supporter of abortion, the feminist demand I heard so much in my youth, "free abortion on demand," never had any traction with me, it sounded too much like killing inconvenient people. The time to exercise control over your body is before you get pregnant, not after, but things don't always work out that way. And it's also an ethical dilemma I'll never face, I can't get pregnant. Even if I were the father of a fetus a woman wanted to abort and I objected, I think what she wants trumps what I want. I'm not the one who's pregnant, I do not have the right to bend her to my will. I can also see a case that she doesn't have the right to bend me to her will either, but we have to draw a line somewhere, and I draw it this way: the one who had it last calls the shots.
Re: What rights should a fetus have?
As I've said before, what about the actions of the male? He gave away his rights when he shot his wad. If he kept his pants on there wouldn't be an abortion 100% of the time.
Re: Henry Morgantaler- Saint or Common Criminal?
Dr. Henry Morgentaler C.M., a Member of the Order of Canada, is neither a ‘saint’ nor a ‘criminal’.
While there are millions of Canadians who likely despise Dr. Morgentaler for the fact that he was a driving force behind safe access to abortion, the fact is that without Dr. Morgentaler’s work, we would have rampant back-alley and coat hanger abortions; thousands of women every year would place themselves in grave danger to access abortion. He has been an influential Canadian in the driving for the enhancement of women’s rights.
Dr. Henry Morgentaler C.M., a Member of the Order of Canada, is neither a ‘saint’ nor a ‘criminal’.
While there are millions of Canadians who likely despise Dr. Morgentaler for the fact that he was a driving force behind safe access to abortion, the fact is that without Dr. Morgentaler’s work, we would have rampant back-alley and coat hanger abortions; thousands of women every year would place themselves in grave danger to access abortion. He has been an influential Canadian in the driving for the enhancement of women’s rights.
Re: Henry Morgantaler- Saint or Common Criminal?
Millions may despise Dr. Morgantaler, but even more millions praise him for his unceasing efforts and the sacrifices he made to make abortion legal (and safe). The Order of Canada was well deserved.
Millions may despise Dr. Morgantaler, but even more millions praise him for his unceasing efforts and the sacrifices he made to make abortion legal (and safe). The Order of Canada was well deserved.
Re: Henry Morgantaler- Saint or Common Criminal?
I am pleased, not at abortion per se, but at the fact that women have the freedom of choice. Freedom is above all, all important. If it has some unintended consequences, well, nobody promised that freedom will lead to everybody becoming happy and rich. Freedom has a price attached to it, and unintended consequences is one of them. Freedom is still preferable to bondage.
I am pleased, not at abortion per se, but at the fact that women have the freedom of choice. Freedom is above all, all important. If it has some unintended consequences, well, nobody promised that freedom will lead to everybody becoming happy and rich. Freedom has a price attached to it, and unintended consequences is one of them. Freedom is still preferable to bondage.
Re: What rights should a fetus have?
'Kill' is a matter of opinion. I don't think abortion kills a human being. Nobody can prove that it does.
'Kill' is a matter of opinion. I don't think abortion kills a human being. Nobody can prove that it does.
Re: What rights should a fetus have?
I have raised the same issue before. If pro lifers are so concerned about the fetus (which I don’t think they are, to them, banning abortion is just another way of oppressing women), they should demand that every miscarriage be thoroughly investigated to see if women, doctor, nursing staff etc. was in any way responsible and charges should be filed against those who were responsible.
They should demand that miscarried fetus should be given proper funeral, burial service, with a proper casket and everything. Are they demanding that such a law be passed? No. Or forget about the law, do pro lifers do this voluntarily for any miscarriage pro life women may have? Do they take the miscarried fetus to a funeral home? Again, no.
Nowhere is the pro life hypocrisy so evidence as in the issue of miscarriage.
I have raised the same issue before. If pro lifers are so concerned about the fetus (which I don’t think they are, to them, banning abortion is just another way of oppressing women), they should demand that every miscarriage be thoroughly investigated to see if women, doctor, nursing staff etc. was in any way responsible and charges should be filed against those who were responsible.
They should demand that miscarried fetus should be given proper funeral, burial service, with a proper casket and everything. Are they demanding that such a law be passed? No. Or forget about the law, do pro lifers do this voluntarily for any miscarriage pro life women may have? Do they take the miscarried fetus to a funeral home? Again, no.
Nowhere is the pro life hypocrisy so evidence as in the issue of miscarriage.
Re: What rights should a fetus have?
There is a big difference between the two. In the second case (rape), the victim is a human being, in the first case (abortion), it is not (or properly speaking, there is no victim in the first case, since no human is harmed).
There is a big difference between the two. In the second case (rape), the victim is a human being, in the first case (abortion), it is not (or properly speaking, there is no victim in the first case, since no human is harmed).
Re: What rights should a fetus have?
Quite so. If the law did not penalize anybody for miscarriage (when abortion was illegal), then the law was an ass. Fetus was treated as a human being when it was aborted, but not as one when it was miscarried. It was an unjust, hypocritical law, and Supreme Court was well advised to scrap it.
Quite so. If the law did not penalize anybody for miscarriage (when abortion was illegal), then the law was an ass. Fetus was treated as a human being when it was aborted, but not as one when it was miscarried. It was an unjust, hypocritical law, and Supreme Court was well advised to scrap it.
Re: What rights should a fetus have?
It is not OK to kill, abortion does not kill any human being.
It is not OK to kill, abortion does not kill any human being.
Re: What rights should a fetus have?
It is nonsense to use the words 'baby' and 'aborted' in the same sentence.
It is nonsense to use the words 'baby' and 'aborted' in the same sentence.
Re: morning after pill
Do you mean pro lifers here in Canada? I think they are a slightly different breed from pro lifers in USA, who tend to be much more extreme. You only have to look at the history of morning after pill in USA, to see how much opposition there was by the pro life movement there.
Indeed, that is why pro lifers in USA are also opposed to some forms of contraception, the ones which kill the embryo or prevent it from implanting. Pro lifers call them abortifacients, to differentiate them from contraceptives (which don’t kill the embryo).
Do you mean pro lifers here in Canada? I think they are a slightly different breed from pro lifers in USA, who tend to be much more extreme. You only have to look at the history of morning after pill in USA, to see how much opposition there was by the pro life movement there.
Indeed, that is why pro lifers in USA are also opposed to some forms of contraception, the ones which kill the embryo or prevent it from implanting. Pro lifers call them abortifacients, to differentiate them from contraceptives (which don’t kill the embryo).
Re: morning after pill
Many of these things that conservatives oppose (abortion, homosexuality, prostitution etc., even premarital sex) have been around for thousands of years, indeed probably as long as humanity has been around.
When conservatives try to ban these things, they are trying to impose their version of Bible upon everybody, and thereby going against nature. No wonder they don’t have much success at it.
Many of these things that conservatives oppose (abortion, homosexuality, prostitution etc., even premarital sex) have been around for thousands of years, indeed probably as long as humanity has been around.
When conservatives try to ban these things, they are trying to impose their version of Bible upon everybody, and thereby going against nature. No wonder they don’t have much success at it.
Re: morning after pill
Same with left-wingers, ....You have the regular liberals.... then you have the progressives;-)
Re: morning after pill
Well to be honest - I really dislike argument but if we all agreed without question and followed the "new rules" without argument or debate we'd turn into sheepish droids questioning nothing.
Thank god for debate and discussion and differing opinions - signs of a great and healthy society - who have every right to agree/disagree/ and yes - compromise!
Well to be honest - I really dislike argument but if we all agreed without question and followed the "new rules" without argument or debate we'd turn into sheepish droids questioning nothing.
Thank god for debate and discussion and differing opinions - signs of a great and healthy society - who have every right to agree/disagree/ and yes - compromise!
Re: morning after pill
And don't bring in the religious crap about pro-lifers; there are also atheist pro-lifers. What you call pro-lifers, and what pro-lifers I've seen are two different things.
Only an arrogant fool would presume to know what pro-lifers accept or not.
Wrong, as usual. The logic actually goes like this: life begins at conception, and as the life can be nothing other than human (from human parents, it must be a human life inside the mother.
And don't bring in the religious crap about pro-lifers; there are also atheist pro-lifers. What you call pro-lifers, and what pro-lifers I've seen are two different things.
Perhaps you should go to the states and whine about it then.
