The stratified heavens: the gaseous layers of the stratosphere?

[eanassir]

The seed of the fallen dwell over us as the sheppard kings, every revolution round the sun their power wanes as the dread of judgement makes them viler still.

To confirm my word in the preceding post which in fact is according to the late interpreter of the Quran and the Bible:

Paradise in the Quran is spoken of as inheritance given to the believers that worked the righteous work;

this is because the afterlife is the spiritual or ethereal issue of this material World.

An example is the Quran 19: 63

تِلْكَ الْجَنَّةُ الَّتِي نُورِثُ مِنْ عِبَادِنَا مَن كَانَ تَقِيًّا​

The explanation:
(That is Paradise which We will give for an inheritance to those of Our servants who ward off [God's punishment.])


The other point is that the Children of Israel did not return to Egypt in order to become the heirs of the property of Pharaoh and his host.


Hence, it is obvious that the implication is about the pious among the Children of Israel will inherit the ethereal property of Pharaoh and his host.


Similarly, the pious - whether they belong to the Children of Israel or not - will inherit Paradise which is the ethereal product of this material World:

i.e. Moses will inherit the palaces and gold ornaments of Pharaoh, and the believers will inherit the property of Pharoh's family and ministers. But that will be the ethereal (not the material) such ethereal which will last forever.

And as such the prophets and apostles will inherit the property of kings and emperors, and the believers will inherit the property of the rich in Paradise.

Paradise (or the Garden)

 

[eanassir]

Paradise is given as an inheritance to believers

The next afterlife world is the issue of this material World.

"God - be exalted - said in the Quran 19: 63

تِلْكَ الْجَنَّةُ الَّتِي نُورِثُ مِنْ عِبَادِنَا مَن كَانَ تَقِيًّا​

The explanation:
(That is Paradise which We will give for inheritance to those of Our servants who ward off [God's punishment.] )

But why does He say نُورِثُi.e. (We will give for inheritance)?

That is because the trees, which belonged to disbelievers during the Worldly life; God will give them in the Hereafter to believers, to be a heritage for them; and that is because trees have spirits, just as people have souls.

Similarly, God - be exalted - said in the Quran 23: 10-11

أُوْلَئِكَ هُمُ الْوَارِثُونَ . الَّذِينَ يَرِثُونَ الْفِرْدَوْسَ هُمْ فِيهَا خَالِدُونَ​

The explanation:
(These will be the heirs.
Who will inherit Paradise, to dwell therein for ever.)

It means: They will inherit what belonged to disbelievers in the life of the World, and it will be the ethereal of it not the material.

Moreover, God - be exalted - said in the Quran 43: 72-73

وَتِلْكَ الْجَنَّةُ الَّتِي أُورِثْتُمُوهَا بِمَا كُنتُمْ تَعْمَلُونَ . لَكُمْ فِيهَا فَاكِهَةٌ كَثِيرَةٌ مِنْهَا تَأْكُلُونَ​

The explanation:
(That is the Garden which you are made to inherit because of what you used to do.
Therein for you is fruit in plenty whence to eat.)

Also, God - be exalted - said in the Quran 26: 57-59 – telling about Pharaoh's folk:

فَأَخْرَجْنَاهُم مِّن جَنَّاتٍ وَعُيُونٍ . وَكُنُوزٍ وَمَقَامٍ كَرِيمٍ . كَذَلِكَ وَأَوْرَثْنَاهَا بَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ​

The explanation:
(So We drove them out of gardens and springs.
And treasures and a fair estate.
As such, and We caused the Children of Israel to inherit [all] that [in the afterlife.])

However, the Israelites did not return to Egypt in order that they might inherit the wealth and gardens that belonged to Pharaoh and his folk; but the meaning is: We let them inherit the ethereal of them, not the material, and all that will exclusively be for the Children of Israel [in the afterlife.]

This is confirmed by His saying - be exalted - in the Quran 19: 40

إِنَّا نَحْنُ نَرِثُ الْأَرْضَ وَمَنْ عَلَيْهَا وَإِلَيْنَا يُرْجَعُونَ​

The explanation:
(It is We Who inherit the earth and whosoever upon it are, and to Us do they return [after death.] )

While God - be exalted - said in the Quran 55: 26

كُلُّ مَنْ عَلَيْها فانٍ​

The explanation:
(Whosoever upon the [earth] shall perish.)

Then, how can a passing away thing be inherited !? But the meaning is:
Everything upon the earth, of the materials, will break up and perish;
while every ethereal will remain, so that it will be a heritage for Us, and that We shall give it to the pious and believers in the afterlife."


Paradise (or the Garden)

 

[eanassir]

Well, you could have pointed out in your OP which one you meant and saved a lot of explaining.

Obviously, if you mean the gaseous "heaven" it means the sky.
A 3 year old could tell you that.

Same for the solar system type "heaven".

If you meant the spiritual "heaven",
most theologians and philosophers would tell you it almost definitely isn't a physical place.

The Quran is a concize book {that can be known by heart like you remember a poem by heart], which knowledge is tremendous that increases by the explanation and interpretation.

To prove this, I tell you this Quran aya 65: 12

اللَّهُ الَّذِي خَلَقَ سَبْعَ سَمَاوَاتٍ وَمِنَ الْأَرْضِ مِثْلَهُنَّ يَتَنَزَّلُ الْأَمْرُ بَيْنَهُنَّ لِتَعْلَمُوا أَنَّ اللَّهَ عَلَى كُلِّ شَيْءٍ قَدِيرٌ وَأَنَّ اللَّهَ قَدْ أَحَاطَ بِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ عِلْمًا​

The explanation:
(God Who created seven heavens,
and the equal [number] of the earth;
the am'r come down among them; ​

that you should know that God is Most Able over all things, and that God is Comprehending everything in His knowledge.)​

Therefore, I ask you and all others including Muslims, to explain what is meant by this aya: ​

and "the equal [number]of the earth" what is it?​

Moreover, what are such "seven heavens": are they the ethereal, the gaseous or the planets, ​

And what is this "am'r" that come down among them?​

 

[Dexter Sinister]

I didn't say the earth is less than 10,000 years; where and when did I say this?

Only I said its transformation from a flaming sun to an earth with a cold crust and hot core; this transformation lasted 2000 years, and the next 4,000 years were required to the crust becoming thicker and the mountains fell and anchored firmly on it. .

I know you didn't say the earth was less than 10,000 years old, and I didn't suggest you did, I merely said that some people like you--i.e. religious extremists--do say that and try to hijack the science curriculum with scripture-based BS they claim is science. I'm sure you'd try to do that too if you could, just as I'm sure you'd cheerfully see all us infidels and apostates murdered. You've made it clear elsewhere that you think it's only what we deserve.

But you're entirely wrong about the rest of it anyway. The earth was never a flaming sun, it's not big enough to sustain the nuclear reactions that power a sun, and if it had ever been that hot it would have taken a lot longer than 6000 years to cool down to its present state. Mountains didn't fall onto it either, they're a product of forces internal to the earth. What you understand about science could be engraved on a pinhead in a 20-point font. And no, Bar Sinister and I are not related, we don't even know each other. But we do share some knowledge of Latin and a much greater knowledge of reality than you have.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Dex have you not been keeping up on your Bible studies? Progressive Creationism... Gap Theory Creation ...Theistic Evolution...

Yes, I'm aware of all those versions of the story, and a few others too. They're all at best unnecessarily complex explanations that don't really explain anything. It's not helpful to explain a complex set of events by postulating something even more complex and by definition ultimately incomprehensible as the cause, that's the death of the research program. At worst they're simply ignorant and useless.

 

[MHz]

Yes, I'm aware of all those versions of the story, and a few others too. They're all at best unnecessarily complex explanations that don't really explain anything. It's not helpful to explain a complex set of events by postulating something even more complex and by definition ultimately incomprehensible as the cause, that's the death of the research program. At worst they're simply ignorant and useless.

Like the global warming scam? With the increase in life that emits CO2 , like humans, what should the rise be?
God summed it up in one page, or as you put it 'goat herders', and if we are smarted we should be able to make it even shorter and more clear.
Adding a zero to each creation day is not a very complex 'solution', course it proves there is an authority that knows more than humans did when the info was given and 'goat herders' didn't use powers of 10 in their daily lives now did they?

 

[YukonJack]

I spent one day and one night in Stratosphere.

However, I thought that Bellagio was classier for my taste.

 

[eanassir]

The earth was never a flaming sun, it's not big enough to sustain the nuclear reactions that power a sun, and if it had ever been that hot it would have taken a lot longer than 6000 years to cool down to its present state.

To correct some misunderstanding, I should say:

The earth is that initial earth which was a sun, then cooled down to have a crust and to be converted into an earth, which then exploded into 9 pieces: the earth and the present planets of the solar system.

So, that previous sun got a thin crust which prevented the gases from escaping, then when the pressure became high enough it exploded.

And evenso our earth being part of that sun was very hot, and still its core is very hot.

To see details of the sequence of events prior to its explosion which will be similar to the explosion in the future of our sun (which in fact has become old and its end is imminent in about 2000 years.)

The blowing through the Horn
The blowing will be continuous, but there will be two bouts of extreme blowing in the horn ( which is the crack in the crust of the cooling sun)

Mountains didn't fall onto it either, they're a product of forces internal to the earth.

The geological factors have their role certainly in forming the new moutains and modifying the present mountains; but the falling of the portions of the destroyed planets in the form of mountains cannot be denied:

If our earth breaks up, what will it be other than asteroids, portions and rocks which will fall on the nearby planets?

And mountains are there on all the planets and moons and even in the bottom of seas and oceans.

Moerover life cannot evolve from the earth itself, because it was sterilized and very hot at the start.
Murchison meteorite

Life is transmittable (or migrant)

 

[AnnaG]

Not one of the following has much to do with the topic. There's no scientific proof of spiritual heavens so the talk about it should not be in the science forum but in the philosophy forum. I can understand eannasir's confusion between the two, though, as what he calls proof is simply opinion and hearsay.

Concerning the Quran 's version of science: this is the book that eannasir interprets as saying the "heavens" are held up by "invisible pillars".

To confirm my word in the preceding post which in fact is according to the late interpreter of the Quran and the Bible:

Paradise in the Quran is spoken of as inheritance given to the believers that worked the righteous work;

this is because the afterlife is the spiritual or ethereal issue of this material World.

An example is the Quran 19: 63

تِلْكَ الْجَنَّةُ الَّتِي نُورِثُ مِنْ عِبَادِنَا مَن كَانَ تَقِيًّا​

The explanation:
(That is Paradise which We will give for an inheritance to those of Our servants who ward off [God's punishment.])


The other point is that the Children of Israel did not return to Egypt in order to become the heirs of the property of Pharaoh and his host.


Hence, it is obvious that the implication is about the pious among the Children of Israel will inherit the ethereal property of Pharaoh and his host.


Similarly, the pious - whether they belong to the Children of Israel or not - will inherit Paradise which is the ethereal product of this material World:

i.e. Moses will inherit the palaces and gold ornaments of Pharaoh, and the believers will inherit the property of Pharoh's family and ministers. But that will be the ethereal (not the material) such ethereal which will last forever.

And as such the prophets and apostles will inherit the property of kings and emperors, and the believers will inherit the property of the rich in Paradise.

Paradise (or the Garden)

Paradise is given as an inheritance to believers

The next afterlife world is the issue of this material World.

"God - be exalted - said in the Quran 19: 63

تِلْكَ الْجَنَّةُ الَّتِي نُورِثُ مِنْ عِبَادِنَا مَن كَانَ تَقِيًّا​

The explanation:
(That is Paradise which We will give for inheritance to those of Our servants who ward off [God's punishment.] )

But why does He say نُورِثُi.e. (We will give for inheritance)?

That is because the trees, which belonged to disbelievers during the Worldly life; God will give them in the Hereafter to believers, to be a heritage for them; and that is because trees have spirits, just as people have souls.

Similarly, God - be exalted - said in the Quran 23: 10-11

أُوْلَئِكَ هُمُ الْوَارِثُونَ . الَّذِينَ يَرِثُونَ الْفِرْدَوْسَ هُمْ فِيهَا خَالِدُونَ​

The explanation:
(These will be the heirs.
Who will inherit Paradise, to dwell therein for ever.)

It means: They will inherit what belonged to disbelievers in the life of the World, and it will be the ethereal of it not the material.

Moreover, God - be exalted - said in the Quran 43: 72-73

وَتِلْكَ الْجَنَّةُ الَّتِي أُورِثْتُمُوهَا بِمَا كُنتُمْ تَعْمَلُونَ . لَكُمْ فِيهَا فَاكِهَةٌ كَثِيرَةٌ مِنْهَا تَأْكُلُونَ​

The explanation:
(That is the Garden which you are made to inherit because of what you used to do.
Therein for you is fruit in plenty whence to eat.)

Also, God - be exalted - said in the Quran 26: 57-59 – telling about Pharaoh's folk:

فَأَخْرَجْنَاهُم مِّن جَنَّاتٍ وَعُيُونٍ . وَكُنُوزٍ وَمَقَامٍ كَرِيمٍ . كَذَلِكَ وَأَوْرَثْنَاهَا بَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ​

The explanation:
(So We drove them out of gardens and springs.
And treasures and a fair estate.
As such, and We caused the Children of Israel to inherit [all] that [in the afterlife.])

However, the Israelites did not return to Egypt in order that they might inherit the wealth and gardens that belonged to Pharaoh and his folk; but the meaning is: We let them inherit the ethereal of them, not the material, and all that will exclusively be for the Children of Israel [in the afterlife.]

This is confirmed by His saying - be exalted - in the Quran 19: 40

إِنَّا نَحْنُ نَرِثُ الْأَرْضَ وَمَنْ عَلَيْهَا وَإِلَيْنَا يُرْجَعُونَ​

The explanation:
(It is We Who inherit the earth and whosoever upon it are, and to Us do they return [after death.] )

While God - be exalted - said in the Quran 55: 26

كُلُّ مَنْ عَلَيْها فانٍ​

The explanation:
(Whosoever upon the [earth] shall perish.)

Then, how can a passing away thing be inherited !? But the meaning is:
Everything upon the earth, of the materials, will break up and perish;
while every ethereal will remain, so that it will be a heritage for Us, and that We shall give it to the pious and believers in the afterlife."


Paradise (or the Garden)

The Quran is a concize book {that can be known by heart like you remember a poem by heart], which knowledge is tremendous that increases by the explanation and interpretation.

To prove this, I tell you this Quran aya 65: 12

اللَّهُ الَّذِي خَلَقَ سَبْعَ سَمَاوَاتٍ وَمِنَ الْأَرْضِ مِثْلَهُنَّ يَتَنَزَّلُ الْأَمْرُ بَيْنَهُنَّ لِتَعْلَمُوا أَنَّ اللَّهَ عَلَى كُلِّ شَيْءٍ قَدِيرٌ وَأَنَّ اللَّهَ قَدْ أَحَاطَ بِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ عِلْمًا​

The explanation:
(God Who created seven heavens,
and the equal [number] of the earth;
the am'r come down among them; ​

that you should know that God is Most Able over all things, and that God is Comprehending everything in His knowledge.)​

Therefore, I ask you and all others including Muslims, to explain what is meant by this aya: ​

and "the equal [number]of the earth" what is it?​

Moreover, what are such "seven heavens": are they the ethereal, the gaseous or the planets, ​

And what is this "am'r" that come down among them?​

 

[AnnaG]

To correct some misunderstanding, I should say:

The earth is that initial earth which was a sun, then cooled down to have a crust and to be converted into an earth, which then exploded into 9 pieces: the earth and the present planets of the solar system.

You mean that the Earth was part of a sun, don't you?.

So, that previous sun got a thin crust which prevented the gases from escaping, then when the pressure became high enough it exploded.

You don't seem to know how stars die either. Here's a simple explanation I think you can understand:

The Life of a Star

And evenso our earth being part of that sun was very hot, and still its core is very hot.

There are 3 reasons I can think of why our core is hot: the one you mentioned, friction heat from the constant motion of different densities of core material, and heat from the decay of radioactive materials.

To see details of the sequence of events prior to its explosion which will be similar to the explosion in the future of our sun (which in fact has become old and its end is imminent in about 2000 years.)

Wrong. Sol will not explode in 2000 years. Our sun is a yellow dwarf and yellow dwarfs live about 10 billion years. As our sun is only about 5 billion years old, it has about 5 billion years left in its life.
Someone else can take apart the rest of this nonsense.

 

[eanassir]

You don't seem to know how stars die either.

You have evaded to answer my questions and you have not given yet any answer to the questions in the post #63 about the Quran aya 65: 12 ​

اللَّهُ الَّذِي خَلَقَ سَبْعَ سَمَاوَاتٍ وَمِنَ الْأَرْضِ مِثْلَهُنَّ يَتَنَزَّلُ الْأَمْرُ بَيْنَهُنَّ لِتَعْلَمُوا أَنَّ اللَّهَ عَلَى كُلِّ شَيْءٍ قَدِيرٌ وَأَنَّ اللَّهَ قَدْ أَحَاطَ بِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ عِلْمًا​

The explanation:
(God Who created seven heavens,
and the equal [number] of the earth;
the am'r come down among them;

that you should know that God is Most Able over all things, and that God is Comprehending everything in His knowledge.)


Therefore, I ask you and I challenge all others including Muslims, to explain what is meant by this aya:

and "the equal [number]of the earth" what is it?

Moreover, what are such "seven heavens": are they the ethereal, the gaseous or the planets,

And what is this "am'r" that come down among them?​

 

[darkbeaver]

Proof for a nuclear sun---------there isn't any

proof for earths hot core------- " " "

tectonics formed mountains---- " " "

The earth is six thousand years old the earth is five billion years old, one religion versus another.

 

[Tonington]

Says the electric universe high priest

 

[darkbeaver]

Says the electric universe high priest

It's not hard to be high priest when you're the only believer in the forum is it?:lol: amen

 

[eanassir]

Repeated and deleted.

 

[eanassir]

Proof for a nuclear sun---------there isn't any

proof for earths hot core------- " " "

tectonics formed mountains---- " " "

The earth is six thousand years old the earth is five billion years old, one religion versus another.

A nuclear sun --------- it should be so; from where comes such a high energy of the sun ?
Earth hot core --------- volcanoes erupt and a very hot lava and fire come out of these volcanoes.
Tectonics formed mountains -------- it could be, causing the longitudinal mountain chains.

The earth six days: this is true: it is six days that equal six thousands of our years; each day of the Hereafter equals one thousand years; this is the time required by that initial sun to be transfromed into the initial earth (which broke up into nine pieces that formed our present Earth and the planets)
The creation here is the transformation from a flaming very hot sun, into an earth with a crust.

While this process took place since millions of years maybe.

Therefore, it is true the earth had been created in six days as in the Torah and the Quran.

And it is true that the Earth is old: some millions of years maybe; God only knows its old age.

Formation of the planets

Formation of the earth

 

[Dexter Sinister]

To correct some misunderstanding, I should say...

There's no misunderstanding, you're just wrong. You're entitled to your own opinions, but you're not entitled to your own facts, they're the same for everybody.

 

[#juan]

There's no misunderstanding, you're just wrong. You're entitled to your own opinions, but you're not entitled to your own facts, they're the same for everybody.

Good to see you back Dexter. More often would be better....;-)

 

[eanassir]

There's no misunderstanding, you're just wrong. You're entitled to your own opinions, but you're not entitled to your own facts, they're the same for everybody.

You are the wrong.
I said the sun was transformed into an earth, which was not our present earth.

But the past sun was transformed into an earth with a relatively thin crust, and this latter was exploded and 9 pieces resulted which formed the present planets.

So that earth was the mother of our Earth together with the rest of the planets.

It was that sun transfromed into that mother earth: the mother of our Earth and the rest of the planets.

That mother earth was created within 2000 of our years; it means: a thin crust formed to it within 2000 years starting from the time one of its planets stopped axial spinning and its moon swallowed by that sun, which initiated its cooling and that moon acted like the nucleus for such collection of cold material of the crust.
Formation of the planets

The same fate will be of our Sun: it has started cooling from the time Venus stopped its axial spinning, which now circle around the Sun with one hemispehre facing the Sun and the other opposite hemisphere has lasting night.
Venus Has Stopped Its Axial Rotation
The sun will burst

 

[eanassir]

Good to see you back Dexter. More often would be better....;-)

#juan, you are delighted for Dexter said confidentially to me: "you are just wrong" ?
But I told him he is the worng :smile: