Omar Khadr- Release him now

[JLM]

Here is a direct quote from Wikipedia

"In February 2008, the Pentagon accidentally released documents that revealed that although Khadr was present in the house, there was no other evidence that he had thrown the grenade. In fact, military officials had originally reported that another of the surviving militants had thrown the grenade just before being killed, and later rewrote their report to implicate Khadr instead.[3]"

What has happened to "innocent until proven guilty"? What has happened to the concept of a timely trial? Don't we as Canadians support the right to be held without being tortured? Don't we support our fellow Canadians until such time as they are proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt?

 

[CDNBear]

Here is a direct quote from Wikipedia

"In February 2008, the Pentagon accidentally released documents that revealed that although Khadr was present in the house, there was no other evidence that he had thrown the grenade. In fact, military officials had originally reported that another of the surviving militants had thrown the grenade just before being killed, and later rewrote their report to implicate Khadr instead.[3]"

What has happened to "innocent until proven guilty"? What has happened to the concept of a timely trial? Don't we as Canadians support the right to be held without being tortured? Don't we support our fellow Canadians until such time as they are proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt?

JLM, he wasn't there selling roses.

He has a history. That has already been discussed on this board. His intentions and presence in Afghanistan, was as an illegal foreign national, combatant. Un-uniformed and in violation of the Laws of Armed Conflict, as well as several international conventions.

He should have been shot on sight. His very life is a testament to the new ways of war.

Now, there is no provisions that dictate how an un-uniformed combatant shall be treated under the law. In past wars, they were summarily tried and executed. He wasn't. He's lucky.

This has nothing to do with Canadian Law, or US Law. This is uncharted territory. Given all that, his predicament is entirely his fault. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[JLM]

JLM, he wasn't there selling roses.

He has a history. That has already been discussed on this board. His intentions and presence in Afghanistan, was as an illegal foreign national, combatant. Un-uniformed and in violation of the Laws of Armed Conflict, as well as several international conventions.

He should have been shot on sight. His very life is a testament to the new ways of war.

Now, there is no provisions that dictate how an un-uniformed combatant shall be treated under the law. In past wars, they were summarily tried and executed. He wasn't. He's lucky.

This has nothing to do with Canadian Law, or US Law. This is uncharted territory. Given all that, his predicament is entirely his fault. Nothing more, nothing less.

OK, since you put it in those terms I'm reluctantly going to let you win this one. HOwever I think on account of his youth at the time, some leniency wouldn't hurt. Guess I'm just too nice of a guy.......:lol::lol::lol::lol:

 

[CDNBear]

OK, since you put it in those terms I'm reluctantly going to let you win this one.

I wasn't actually in it to win it JLM. Just shed a little light on the situation.

Colpy is aware of the same legal standings and doesn't agree in letting him rot in Gitmo either.

HOwever I think on account of his youth at the time, some leniency wouldn't hurt. Guess I'm just too nice of a guy.......:lol::lol::lol::lol:

I agree, you are a nice guy, and I don't think people can be too nice.

Without your balance to the equation, people like Khadar would still be getting shot in the head in the middle of a war zone. It's good that not everyone is as cold as I am dude! Because at the end of the day, I might very well need to lean back on some of that tempered justice at some time.

 

[EagleSmack]

Instead, we have to continually hear about this in the news every time something happens or doesn't.... and then it starts all over again with one side saying to bring him home, others saying to let him rot because he deserves it, and others pulling the sarcasm of saying "Yeah bring him home to his hero's welcome and parade" as if that's going to guilt anybody into changing their minds.

.

Oh I would not think Khadar's Fan Group would EVER change their minds on this one. So I do believe he should be sent home and have his ticker tape parade as good Canadian girls lay rose pedals before him.

 

[ironsides]

Hypothetical: 6 terrorists in a house, 5 start shooting and throwing grenades, 5 are killed and one is captured. That one is not innocent he was caught in the act. there is no presumption of innocence in this case. Would it have been better if we had just killed him also? Of course not, he was young, but non the less he was there and part of the terrorist group. He is still alive, and someday he will be allowed home, once we can be fairly sure he will not do it again.


Wonder what Canadian law says about a Canadian fighting for another country/organization against itself and or allies?

 

[DurkaDurka]

Oh I would not think Khadar's Fan Group would EVER change their minds on this one. So I do believe he should be sent home and have his ticker tape parade as good Canadian girls lay rose pedals before him.

Do you really think he's that popular amongst Canadians?

 

[Praxius]

We should bring him back, albeit with harsh restrictions placed upon him:

- No contact with his immediate family
- Forbidden to profit from his "story"
- Passport confiscated
- Mandatory counseling
- Probation for 10+ years

That's all make sense for a convicted criminal, and I'm not saying he's innocent, but he hasn't even been found guilty of anything yet, therefore forcing the above on him without even proving his guilt first is just a tad screwed up and is clearly based around an emotional response to the situation.

You can't tell someone they can't visit their own family, his mother even.... if he murdered someone and was found guilty of that murder, I'd agree on prohibiting him from making a book or movie and gaining profit from it..... however if he is found innocent/not guilty, there are no grounds to stop him.

Hypothetically speaking, if I was in his shoes, and hypothetically I truly didn't do anything in relation to what they're charging me for and I was then released after so many years.... writing a story and getting some money out of it would be one of my first steps..... I'd have to get back on my feet somehow, and if I went through all that crap for nothing and wasted 7-8 years of my life, I think I'd be slightly justified in getting something out of it.

Passport confiscated.... since he was a minor at the time his father took him over to Afghanistan and since I doubt he'd have much room to have a say in the matter (if his father was as many say he was) it was technically not his fault for being over there in the first place.

Mandatory counseling I would certainly agree with.

Probation for 10+ years?

For what?

 

[Praxius]

Here is a direct quote from Wikipedia

"In February 2008, the Pentagon accidentally released documents that revealed that although Khadr was present in the house, there was no other evidence that he had thrown the grenade. In fact, military officials had originally reported that another of the surviving militants had thrown the grenade just before being killed, and later rewrote their report to implicate Khadr instead.[3]"

What has happened to "innocent until proven guilty"? What has happened to the concept of a timely trial? Don't we as Canadians support the right to be held without being tortured? Don't we support our fellow Canadians until such time as they are proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt?

Agreed.... way too many people seem to have difficulty sticking to the known facts and would just rather jump on the witch hunt band wagon due to emotional jargon.... as if the Law only applies as they see fit.

Good thing they're not in law enforcement.

 

[EagleSmack]

Do you really think he's that popular amongst Canadians?

Well I just go by CanCon. The Khadar issue has always been a split. Long ago one woman here said the pictures of him were so cute. Meanwhile he has an AK-47 behind him as he is holding the Quran up and another picture of him working with anti-tank mines. She said she just wants to give him a hug. So he does have a fan base up there.

 

[DurkaDurka]

I find it unlikely that he'll be released before pleading guilty to some of the offenses he's accused of.

We have every right to deny him access to his immediate family considering they are the one's who introduced him to "jihad" and would be still considered a bad influence upon him.

Murderers are commonly banned from profiting from their crimes, he should be no different.

We can't exactly request that he be returned to Canada and then have him take off and do the same thing again, can we?

10+ years of probation to ensure he's doesn't slip back into his old ways. Assuming he is convicted at the tribunal. If not, we could always put him on trial here.

 

[JLM]

Agreed.... way too many people seem to have difficulty sticking to the known facts and would just rather jump on the witch hunt band wagon due to emotional jargon.... as if the Law only applies as they see fit.

Good thing they're not in law enforcement.

I wonder if his name was John Smith, and he was blond, if the scenario would be a little different.

 

[DurkaDurka]

Well I just go by CanCon. The Khadar issue has always been a split. Long ago one woman here said the pictures of him were so cute. Meanwhile he has an AK-47 behind him as he is holding the Quran up and another picture of him working with anti-tank mines. She said she just wants to give him a hug. So he does have a fan base up there.

I don't think CanCon is necessarily representative of Canada, people here tend to be pretty opinionated on the left or right end of the political spectrum. I think the average Canadian probably hasn't heard of him or just doesn't care.

 

[EagleSmack]

I wonder if his name was John Smith, and he was blond, if the scenario would be a little different.

What are you saying here...it's racist.

Obviously you haven't heard of John Walker. He may not be blonde but his name was John and he is in Marion IL for a long time.

Again it's time for us to give him back to Canada so you can welcome him with open arms.

 

[Praxius]

JLM, he wasn't there selling roses.

Maybe he was.

He has a history. That has already been discussed on this board. His intentions and presence in Afghanistan, was as an illegal foreign national, combatant.

Show me the evidence.... and if your only evidence are those old photos of him supposedly making IED's or that other picture of him sitting on a couch with an AK in the background.... you'll need to do a hell of a lot better then that.

Un-uniformed and in violation of the Laws of Armed Conflict, as well as several international conventions.

Sure.... if you could prove he was actually involved in an armed conflict. At present, the only available evidence towards him shows he's about as involved as a typical Afghan villager who's home was taken over by Taliban or Al'Q.... AKA: just because he was in the area, that doesn't mean he was actually fighting.

If you can somehow prove he had weapons all strapped to him, ammo clips in his belt, grenades in his pocket and a gun in his hand at the time of the conflict and when he was shot, you'd have a very strong case.

However, as the US soldier's own reports state, he was found in the corner of the room, in the fetal position with his back turned, no mention of weapons on him or near him, and they shot him twice in the back.

You'd think that if he was as much of a blood thirsty terrorist scum as some like to make him out as, he'd go down in a blaze of glory, try and take out as many US soldiers as he could, and currently be getting laid by a bunch of virgins.

He should have been shot on sight. His very life is a testament to the new ways of war.

He was shot on site.... twice in the back actually.

Now, there is no provisions that dictate how an un-uniformed combatant shall be treated under the law. In past wars, they were summarily tried and executed. He wasn't. He's lucky.

This has nothing to do with Canadian Law, or US Law. This is uncharted territory. Given all that, his predicament is entirely his fault. Nothing more, nothing less.

Yes, it's entirely his own fault.... he got his own passport around the age of 14-15, he bought his own ticket to fly over with his own money, he unquestionably grabbed arms and took the fight to the Americans all on his own. :roll:

I'm sure it's also safe to say he was leading the terrorists the Americans were fighting and they all took orders from him.... in fact, it's not Bin Laden leading the terrorists, it's this Super War Child.... Allah reborn.

Cripes almighty.

 

[DurkaDurka]

Again it's time for us to give him back to Canada so you can welcome him with open arms.

Nah, you keep him.

 

[Praxius]

Oh I would not think Khadar's Fan Group would EVER change their minds on this one. So I do believe he should be sent home and have his ticker tape parade as good Canadian girls lay rose pedals before him.

Thanks for proving my point.

 

[Praxius]

Well I just go by CanCon. The Khadar issue has always been a split. Long ago one woman here said the pictures of him were so cute. Meanwhile he has an AK-47 behind him as he is holding the Quran up and another picture of him working with anti-tank mines. She said she just wants to give him a hug. So he does have a fan base up there.

Ha ha.... yeah the evil AK in the background while he held up the Quran... That's proof enough he's a terrorist alright.

Oh wait.... how many google images can I find online of an American holding up the Bible with a gun rack in the background filled with pistols and assault rifles?

Dat der fella's one dem Ter'ists!

 

[Praxius]

What are you saying here...it's racist.

Obviously you haven't heard of John Walker. He may not be blonde but his name was John and he is in Marion IL for a long time.

Again it's time for us to give him back to Canada so you can welcome him with open arms.

You know, continually hearing people saying this is making me actually want to hold a parade for him, give him a hug.... hell, I'll even get him a job and find him a girlfriend..... just to spite and piss people off who keep saying we should do it.

 

[EagleSmack]

Thanks for proving my point.

No thank you for proving mine.