It sure does if you live outside of reality.
I suggest you read, reread and then reread wulfie's post.
Collateral Murder
- Thread starter JBeee
- Start date
I suggest you read, reread and then reread wulfie's post.
and because it is SOP that makes it A-OK, because there is no way that SOP could be wrong.....right?
Did this "battle" take place out in the middle of nowhere? No! It took place within the city of Baghdad. A place where kids and non combatants live. How do you know that the driver purposely had the kids in the Van KNOWING that he would be picking up wounded? For all we know he was taking the kids to their grandparents and just happened upon the scene. The gross assumption that you, Eagle, AND the chopper pilots have made is exactley that, gross.
Just because it is policy, doesn't mean it is correct. IMNSHO, any one that uses SOP as an excuse for doing something that is not right is copping out. I REALLY don't want to bring up what previous atrocities in history were done based on a military's SOP.
It wasn't the future they were supposed to know. Rather, it was the possibilities of the Apache they knew, or at least were supposed to. Any rational person knows what it could do. Indeed, that there is an unacceptably high possibility of doing.
Again, there is no comparison to the lottery.
"They decided to fly the Apache. They had guns, and used them. A van with kids was hit by their shots. They're responsible for this" is perfectly rational.
Maybe. I'm not prepared to read this whole thread, and was responding to what wolf said about only firing when the ground commander saw cause. He didn't. He asked the helicopter pilot what he saw, and then authorized it. The pilot was wrong.
Can you cite anything? This says otherwise:
We are discussing what is wrong or right Gh. We're discussing culpability.
Go aheand and google earth it, if you think it's as clean cut as the streets of you town Gh.
I don't, and never claimed he did. I do know, that if I were in a similar situation, I would leave my boys at a distance, if I bothered to attend at all.
That's you opinion, and it is made without all the faculties we have.
And I'm not saying anything negative about you, I have previously told you straight out I admire and would fiercely defend you for your beliefs. Period.
Already answered.
And fortunately, there are people willing to do ugly jobs so you can sit in Alberta and have that thought Gh.
Then don't.
Are these your words, Ick?
Do you buy lottery tickets for the specific possibility of NOT winning?
and it f*cking p*sses me off no f*cking end when f*cking asshats make comments like the above to me........ as if "I" should be gratefull that some f*cking warmongering sh*thead has gone overseas and blasted kids to kingdom come in my f*cking name!!!!!!!!!
Anger aside, you should be...:lol:
Have a great day Gh, you can thank an Apache pilot...
Having been there once, I hear it as confirmation. He saw the same thing the pilot and the camera did - same reason the pizza place asks your phone number even if they have Call Display
The US Armed Forces are mostly made up of sick individuals, period.
Some borderline retards, still on duty doing the killing for it`s gov, while others, like CanCon`s annoying skin-tag, Eaglesnack, still thinking he`s in the forces but in all likelyhood one of those un-lucky `not quite right` bastards barred due to his severe injuries and living on a fixed monthly income with plenty of medication and time on his hands to spout off on an internet board about `protecting the weak`, safe and sound behind his keyboard.:canada:
Some borderline retards, still on duty doing the killing for it`s gov, while others, like CanCon`s annoying skin-tag, Eaglesnack, still thinking he`s in the forces but in all likelyhood one of those un-lucky `not quite right` bastards barred due to his severe injuries and living on a fixed monthly income with plenty of medication and time on his hands to spout off on an internet board about `protecting the weak`, safe and sound behind his keyboard.:canada:
Now I think I understand the point you're making. You're saying intention is important. I would make the case that a situation with serious enough consequences makes intentions irrelevant. Someone's responsible for their action of placing themselves in a situation with a greater than normal possiblity of killing innocent people, regardless of their intentions.
That's really the only serious way of handling such serious circumstances as being a soldier.
Really? My sons are both Cadets, they're both confirmed cowards when it comes to war, but both want a military career, so they can get their pilots licenses. One wants to fly bush planes, the other helo's.
Are you saying their intent is to kill people?
I can guarantee you, they are aware of the reality that they may be called on to do so. But they are not seeking to become pilots just to kill people like your stupidity seems to indicate.
Really? So if someone joins the military and wants to be a Medic, but ends up an Infantrymen, his intent was to kill people?
You speak of logic, like you understand it, your posts prove otherwise.
Westboro's stand, as I can tell from those signs they have: "God Likes Dead Soldiers".
My stand: "Soldiers are responsible for the weapons they wield and the people those weapons kill."
It's not the same thing at all.
If I was saying intention was important, I would have said intention is important. I AM saying when one sees what APPEARS as a weapon, one does not shout "cut" and get a better look. Someone will answer for it like several people on the ground already did. If one carries a tripod or a broom in such a manner as to appear like a weapon, one is taking one's chances.
Have you been a soldier?
I'd comfortably wager according to most, not just me.
They were looking for a reason to shoot the injured. They say as much before the van pulls up. There were no weapons in the vicinity when the van stops and attempts to take the wounded.
Intent was never a part of what I was originally saying in this thread. I only mentioned it because I was rephrasing what I thought lone_wolf was saying. So no, I don't that people who enter the service intend to kill others.
But I don't think intentions really matter with such a serious choice. My original point, way hack a few pages, was of couse that the US military is a backwards, unethical society that should be avoided at all costs. And this current thing with the Apaches in N. Baghdad is a good example of that.