How about them Canucks!

[talloola]

OK Juan concerning the points and standings.
this is the most our teams could finish with
san jose-114, chicago 113, vancouver 106, phoenix 108,
nashville 102, detroit 105, l.a. 104, colorado 101, calgary
97

so, we only need one more point to clinch the playoffs, and
that will happen before the end of the season, and calgary
are not going to win all of their games, and even if they
did, that one point will do it for us.

yeah juan I am a true optimist, but also a realist, but what
are you?
lol lol lol

 

[#juan]

can't see that happening, but it would be nice to get away
from having to play detroit in the first round.
phoenix is allready ahead of canucks, they have 100 pts to our 96

Yeah you are right. I got the info from the Canuck's web site. It is probably a hangover from when Vancouver used to have a couple games in hand over Phoenix

 

[#juan]

OK Juan concerning the points and standings.
this is the most our teams could finish with
san jose-114, chicago 113, vancouver 106, phoenix 108,
nashville 102, detroit 105, l.a. 104, colorado 101, calgary
97

so, we only need one more point to clinch the playoffs, and
that will happen before the end of the season, and calgary
are not going to win all of their games, and even if they
did, that one point will do it for us.

yeah juan I am a true optimist, but also a realist, but what
are you?
lol lol lol

I'm probably a bit of a pessimist where the Vancouver Canucks are concerned. That should have been an important game last night but it seemed nobody was up for it. I don't usually like to second guess the coach but why didn't he pull Luongo? Two of the first five goals, Luongo should have stopped. The Canucks have an excellent back-up goaltender and they should be using him more often.

 

[talloola]

I'm probably a bit of a pessimist where the Vancouver Canucks are concerned. That should have been an important game last night but it seemed nobody was up for it. I don't usually like to second guess the coach but why didn't he pull Luongo? Two of the first five goals, Luongo should have stopped. The Canucks have an excellent back-up goaltender and they should be using him more often.

I agree with what vineault did, tonights game was allready
scheduled for raycroft, and luongo had to stay in their and
fight it out and figure it out, and he was not mentally
tough at all, he really sagged in the last period, so that
is a problem for him, and he has to fight even harder when
things are tough. Vineault did not want to make raycroft
have to finish off the mess last night, then play again
tonight.
The defense core have to take lots of responsibility for
last nights failer too, along with luongo, it wasn't all
his fault.
I like vineault's interview, he is calm and decisive, and
he said they have to get mentally tougher, these games will
happen once in a while, (they do with all the teams), and
we put it behind us now, and look forward to anaheim tonight.
They have to keep giving luongo the chance to recover his
game, he is the starter, but with playoffs nearing, you
bet that if this continues, whatever goalie is playing
the best 'will play' in playoffs.
This is very disturbing concerning luongo, I was very
concerned about him last week, he recovered, but now
has sagged again, it is a problem for sure, and with
playoffs right around the corner, hope it gets solved.
But it is still the same with the fans, when he plays
good and the team wins, they all go the other way, and
start talking about stanley cups, and when he doesn't play
well, and they don't as well, everyone trashes them and
says they can't do anything right.
I can't criticize our offensive core for last nights game
they had many many chances, and the puck just didn't go
in for them, that's just the way it goes sometimes, but
everything l.a. shot at the goal seemed to end up in a
goal, or look very dangerous.

 

[#juan]

I agree with what vineault did, tonights game was allready
scheduled for raycroft, and luongo had to stay in their and
fight it out and figure it out, and he was not mentally
tough at all, he really sagged in the last period, so that
is a problem for him, and he has to fight even harder when
things are tough. Vineault did not want to make raycroft
have to finish off the mess last night, then play again
tonight.
The defense core have to take lots of responsibility for
last nights failer too, along with luongo, it wasn't all
his fault.
I like vineault's interview, he is calm and decisive, and
he said they have to get mentally tougher, these games will
happen once in a while, (they do with all the teams), and
we put it behind us now, and look forward to anaheim tonight.
They have to keep giving luongo the chance to recover his
game, he is the starter, but with playoffs nearing, you
bet that if this continues, whatever goalie is playing
the best 'will play' in playoffs.
This is very disturbing concerning luongo, I was very
concerned about him last week, he recovered, but now
has sagged again, it is a problem for sure, and with
playoffs right around the corner, hope it gets solved.
But it is still the same with the fans, when he plays
good and the team wins, they all go the other way, and
start talking about stanley cups, and when he doesn't play
well, and they don't as well, everyone trashes them and
says they can't do anything right.
I can't criticize our offensive core for last nights game
they had many many chances, and the puck just didn't go
in for them, that's just the way it goes sometimes, but
everything l.a. shot at the goal seemed to end up in a
goal, or look very dangerous.

I've coached enough to know that the whole team, including the forwards, are affected by a leaky goaltender.
I know you've been involved in coaching hockey as well. How many times did you tell pee wee players that if you have the puck and you are the last man back, you don't try to stick handle out of your end, you shoot the puck out.
affected
I know Bobby Orr used to build up a head of steam in his own end and skate the length of the ice and often score a goal but there are few Bobby Orrs in the league today, and certainly none on the Canuck's roster.

 

[talloola]

I've coached enough to know that the whole team, including the forwards, are affected by a leaky goaltender.
I know you've been involved in coaching hockey as well. How many times did you tell pee wee players that if you have the puck and you are the last man back, you don't try to stick handle out of your end, you shoot the puck out.
affected
I know Bobby Orr used to build up a head of steam in his own end and skate the length of the ice and often score a goal but there are few Bobby Orrs in the league today, and certainly none on the Canuck's roster.

Yeah, Kesler has finally learned that lesson, as he lost
the puck in the neutral zone many times, trying to do the
Bobby Orr skate, now he knows better, unless of course the
other team opens up the skating lane, and just lets him in,
but the game of defense is taught so well now days, that there isn't much in the way of 'letting' players just skate
through at will, saw a little of it last night though, as
a few l.a. players skated right in on luongo.

He can't be faulted for letting in a break away goal, any
goalie has about a 50/50 chance or less of stopping a
breakaway, and the fault has to be with whomever gave up
the puck to start with, not the goalie.

What worries me with luongo right now, is that he can't
recover from early problems, whether they are his, or the
teams, and become tougher to play against, he seems to get
very rattled early on, if things don't go well. His problems are mental, and it might take him a while to get
over that. I don't like the way 'everyone' puts him on such
a pedastal, I don't think that is good for any player, or
anyone, and everyone does that to him, and has for some
time. Maybe he now thinks he has to be perfect all the
time, and now he isn't living up to that reputation. He
is a good goalie, and on this team he doesn't have to win
games 'for' them, but 'with' them, he just needs to be
solid, as the team is good, lots of scoring this year, and
lots of better than average players, and some elite players,
and he isn't 'god' back there, and he also should not have
the C, I think that was a mistake, someone else should have
it, but I guess it's too late now for that.

 

[#juan]

Yeah, Kesler has finally learned that lesson, as he lost
the puck in the neutral zone many times, trying to do the
Bobby Orr skate, now he knows better, unless of course the
other team opens up the skating lane, and just lets him in,
but the game of defense is taught so well now days, that there isn't much in the way of 'letting' players just skate
through at will, saw a little of it last night though, as
a few l.a. players skated right in on luongo.

He can't be faulted for letting in a break away goal, any
goalie has about a 50/50 chance or less of stopping a
breakaway, and the fault has to be with whomever gave up
the puck to start with, not the goalie.

What worries me with luongo right now, is that he can't
recover from early problems, whether they are his, or the
teams, and become tougher to play against, he seems to get
very rattled early on, if things don't go well. His problems are mental, and it might take him a while to get
over that. I don't like the way 'everyone' puts him on such
a pedastal, I don't think that is good for any player, or
anyone, and everyone does that to him, and has for some
time. Maybe he now thinks he has to be perfect all the
time, and now he isn't living up to that reputation. He
is a good goalie, and on this team he doesn't have to win
games 'for' them, but 'with' them, he just needs to be
solid, as the team is good, lots of scoring this year, and
lots of better than average players, and some elite players,
and he isn't 'god' back there, and he also should not have
the C, I think that was a mistake, someone else should have
it, but I guess it's too late now for that.

I thought it was a mistake to make Luongo captain when they did it. The goaltender doesn't need the added pressure of the captaincy. Gillis was using the captaincy as a kind of currency to get him to sign a long term contract.

Luongo is not the game winning goaltender he once was. We've seen him stop second and third rebounds. Time was if Luongo saw the shot, he would stop it. I think part of the problem is that the other teams now know where his weaknesses are and that is where they are shooting

A lot of very good goaltenders have a special quality that lets them stand there and let people shoot 100 mph pucks at him. That quality is a mild flakiness. Often goalies are a bit superstitious. I once had a really good goalie who just had to wear a dirty, torn, worn out, t-shirt during games. He left it on the bench in the locker room and I threw it into the garbage. Two weeks later I saw him wearing it so he had to have taken it out of the garbage. I don't know what Luongo's quirk is but I would bet that he has one.

 

[talloola]

Good game for canucks tonight, so glad to see grabner start
finishing all of those chances he has had recently. He is
a great shooter, and a great skater, good without the puck,
and now he has made vineault's decision harder when players
start coming back from injuries.

Raycroft played very well, and got the win.

Canucks have 'CLINCHED' the playoffs.
J U A N, are you there? lol lol

Calgary defeated Colorado, who have really sagged, but not
only that, it is always kiprisoff who wins for calgary,
and he did it again. Now colorado and calgary are tied
for 8th spot, but colorado have a game in hand, so they
will get the nod for now.

GO CANUCKS GO

 

[#juan]

Good game for canucks tonight, so glad to see grabner start
finishing all of those chances he has had recently. He is
a great shooter, and a great skater, good without the puck,
and now he has made vineault's decision harder when players
start coming back from injuries.

Raycroft played very well, and got the win.

Canucks have 'CLINCHED' the playoffs.
J U A N, are you there? lol lol

Calgary defeated Colorado, who have really sagged, but not
only that, it is always kiprisoff who wins for calgary,
and he did it again. Now colorado and calgary are tied
for 8th spot, but colorado have a game in hand, so they
will get the nod for now.

GO CANUCKS GO

Yeah. I'm here, but are the Canucks? Will Vineault throw Luongo back in now? I would play Raycroft for the next few games and if he keeps winning I would go with him for the playoffs.

 

[JLM]

Yeah. I'm here, but are the Canucks? Will Vineault throw Luongo back in now? I would play Raycroft for the next few games and if he keeps winning I would go with him for the playoffs.

Not a bad idea, #Juan. I always thought that $63 billion contract was ridiculous, but typical of most professional sports, you have to put the money up before the work starts. The entire pay structure of these guys needs restructuring. I personally don't think any hockey player should earn over $200,000 a year or at least until they have a Stanley Cup under their belt. Then it should be capped at $1/4 million.

 

[#juan]

Not a bad idea, #Juan. I always thought that $63 billion contract was ridiculous, but typical of most professional sports, you have to put the money up before the work starts. The entire pay structure of these guys needs restructuring. I personally don't think any hockey player should earn over $200,000 a year or at least until they have a Stanley Cup under their belt. Then it should be capped at $1/4 million.

I hope there was a performance clause in that big contract. Luongo stunk up the rink in his last game. I think a team that pays that kind of money deserves to get top performance. Raycroft will only improve with more ice time.

 

[bill barilko]

Agree about Grabner-I'd forgotten how young the guy is-and Raycroft does have talent.

 

[talloola]

Yeah. I'm here, but are the Canucks? Will Vineault throw Luongo back in now? I would play Raycroft for the next few games and if he keeps winning I would go with him for the playoffs.

vineault will play luongo enough before the playoffs to give
him a chance to play himself out of problems, once the
playoffs start, whomever is the hot goalie will play.

 

[talloola]

Not a bad idea, #Juan. I always thought that $63 billion contract was ridiculous, but typical of most professional sports, you have to put the money up before the work starts. The entire pay structure of these guys needs restructuring. I personally don't think any hockey player should earn over $200,000 a year or at least until they have a Stanley Cup under their belt. Then it should be capped at $1/4 million.

hockey players make nothing compared to baseball and
basketball, and what people make per year applies to all
of society, how about CEOs and others who strip the money
out of companies and set themselves up for a life of a
millionaire, early on.
How about the hockey franchises who make millions and
line their pockets, (most of them), should the players
then be paid very low, just so joe public can be satisfied,
because he is jealous he doesn't make that much, he can't
see the CEOs annual bottom line or the hockey franchise bottom
line, but he is given the annual salary of each player,
and why is that do you think, so that the public can
trash on the player for making too much.
Do you want it to go back to the way it was years ago for
the players, the owners made a 'mint', and the players
who were doing all the work made 'nothing', and were treated
poorly. The players now have a players association who will
make sure they have fair treatment.
And remember who negotiates the contracts, the owners and
management, so it is 'they' who have set the limit and
caused the league to have to have a cap.
The owners were paying up to 80 and 90 million years ago,
to buy all the best players, and shutting out the teams
who could not afford to do that, hence a cap. The cap
works very well, makes a good balance of salaries in the
league.
With all of the other professional side of life going up
and up, tell me why the hockey player should not be paid
a good annual income.
I think some of you think that a professional hockey player
just falls out of bed one morning with skates on and is
able to make a spot on a team. Take some time and find out
how many years of 'money spending' he has done before he
makes the big league, and how many hours has been put into
training and playing since childhood, he has paid his dues,
and earned his money.

 

[talloola]

I hope there was a performance clause in that big contract. Luongo stunk up the rink in his last game. I think a team that pays that kind of money deserves to get top performance. Raycroft will only improve with more ice time.

Raycroft was a number one goalie, then his performance level
dropped substantially, hence he could only get a job as a
backup, now he is doing very well, and of course he wants
to raise his level so he can be somebody's number one again.

Vineault has the opportunity right now of giving luongo these
remaining games to play himself out of his problem, just
because raycroft has played well has no bearing on how he
would play if he was told he was going to play from now
till the end of the year. He has had 'NO' stress on him,
no one expects him to play as well as luongo, he isn't the
number one, BUT just give him all of that responsibility and
then see how he does over a long period of time, that's
what he had before, and his level of play dropped off
substantially.

Sure the team needs Luongo's best performance, but just because
he is making the money, doesn't automatically make him
'always' play that way. The word 'human' applies here, and
that is where the grey area comes in, money doesn't change
anything, he would want to play his best game if he was
making one million instead of 7 million, he isn't a machine
and can't push a button and do it.

Of course if this problem luongo is having doesn't go away
by the end of this season, then continues next season then
there will have to be a change.

I think the biggest problem with the big contract is stress,
to perform all the time at that level, and I think players
put so much stress on themselves it makes their play worse.
Everyone is different, and the big money will affect them
differently.
But of course we should only see them making $200.000 per
year and we would be satisfied right, and even then if they
didn't perform at the top of their game all the time, we
would want that cut back too, how about down to about
$50,000, now we're talkin.

 

[JLM]

hockey players make nothing compared to baseball and
basketball, and what people make per year applies to all
of society, how about CEOs and others who strip the money
out of companies and set themselves up for a life of a
millionaire, early on.
How about the hockey franchises who make millions and
line their pockets, (most of them), should the players
then be paid very low, just so joe public can be satisfied,
because he is jealous he doesn't make that much, he can't
see the CEOs annual bottom line or the hockey franchise bottom
line, but he is given the annual salary of each player,
and why is that do you think, so that the public can
trash on the player for making too much.
Do you want it to go back to the way it was years ago for
the players, the owners made a 'mint', and the players
who were doing all the work made 'nothing', and were treated
poorly. The players now have a players association who will
make sure they have fair treatment.
And remember who negotiates the contracts, the owners and
management, so it is 'they' who have set the limit and
caused the league to have to have a cap.
The owners were paying up to 80 and 90 million years ago,
to buy all the best players, and shutting out the teams
who could not afford to do that, hence a cap. The cap
works very well, makes a good balance of salaries in the
league.
With all of the other professional side of life going up
and up, tell me why the hockey player should not be paid
a good annual income.
I think some of you think that a professional hockey player
just falls out of bed one morning with skates on and is
able to make a spot on a team. Take some time and find out
how many years of 'money spending' he has done before he
makes the big league, and how many hours has been put into
training and playing since childhood, he has paid his dues,
and earned his money.

Hi Talloola- yep, there's cheats, thieves and ripoff artists in every segment of society, I don't condone for a moment what baseball players and basketball players get paid. How about taking a look at this scenario?
It all starts with the fans and w/o them there would be no hockey league. To me in this day and age $20 a seat would be a fair price to charge spectators- that way the average family could watch a game for $100. Each game averages between 15,000 and 20,000 spectators, so admissions would gross between $300000 and $400000 . There are fixed costs that come out of that and after that's done the players get what's left over. If they play well and provide a good product, they'll get more fans so there is an incentive right there. Sound good to you? Sounds excellent to me! :smile::smile:

 

[JLM]

I sure wouldn't want to be presumptuous about the stress level of hockey players, but there are other professions where there is high stress for 40 hours a week for 49 weeks of the years and quite often for only $50,000.

 

[#juan]

The Islanders picked Luongo in the first round in 1997 (fourth overall)and they only kept him for three years before they traded him to the Panthers in 2000

The Panthers kept him for five years and they traded him to Vancouver in 2006

Luongo didn't fit into the Islander's plans nor did he fit the Panther's needs.

I'm not sure he fits in with Vancouver's requirements either at 7 million a year and less than stellar performance.

I'm not confident that Luongo can come back. His performance level has also dropped substantially. Everyone says goaltenders have these bad games but Lu has had quite a few bad games.

 

[talloola]

The Islanders picked Luongo in the first round in 1997 (fourth overall)and they only kept him for three years before they traded him to the Panthers in 2000

The Panthers kept him for five years and they traded him to Vancouver in 2006

Luongo didn't fit into the Islander's plans nor did he fit the Panther's needs.

I'm not sure he fits in with Vancouver's requirements either at 7 million a year and less than stellar performance.

I'm not confident that Luongo can come back. His performance level has also dropped substantially. Everyone says goaltenders have these bad games but Lu has had quite a few bad games.

He played on the memorial cup 1998-99, juniors.
He went to islanders next year, played 24 games, went to
their farm team, played 26 games, then he was traded to
florida.

He only played in the island organization a little less
than 'one year', right out of juniors.

He played on the florida panthers for quite a while, very
poor team, but seemed to make a name for himself, and he
kept getting picked to play on canada world cup,(so it
is obvious that people much better than any of us saw him
as an up and coming goalie of the future) and then picked
on the olympic team 2005/06
Florida wanted him to stay, but
he would not agree to contract, then keenan made the trade
with canucks, then keenan was fired from the panthers, as
he and the rest of the brass had falling out because of the
trade, so it seems that luongo didn't leave either team
because of his bad play, but because keenan wanted bertuzzi
and other players we sent. There was a good contract sitting on the table for luongo in florida, but he didn't
want to stay there.
He was very young when traded to florida,(not a full year
out of juniors) can't remember
who their top goalie was then on islanders, but luongo made a name for
himself in florida after the trade.

 

[Iceman778]

no comments pls