Chief exorcist says the Devil is in Vatican

[vale]

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[Spade]

So, it is possible that the Devil is both here and in the Vatican at the very same time. The Vatican's chief exorcist may be right, thus giving credibility to the claim made in this thread title, as long as it's with the understanding that the Vatican may not be the only place to find the old bugger.

You may be right. I learnt watching an Oilers' fiasco that there are Devils in New Jersey. And, there were three exorcists in striped shirts, but they were powerless to halt the carnage!

 

[Machjo]

Here's what I never understood:

People say that Satan is the opposite of God in every way, just like dark from light. Well, if that's the case, then it stands to reason that if God exists, then Satan doesn't, but is rather just an absence of God. In fact science itself has proven that darkness exists merely as an absence of light, or cold as an absence of heat.

So if they say Satan is the opposite of God in every way, and that god exists, then how can they say that Satan exists in any way other than as a simple absence of God?

 

[coldstream]

The Exorcist of the Vatican has stated what should be obvious to every Catholic. The Catholic Church has never, contrary to public opinion, declared that as a whole it is perfect, or infallible. Only in matters of doctrinal purity, declared as such by the Pope ex cathedra (from the Chair).. does it make such claims.

It accepts that it is a human institution IN WHICH subsists the Mystical and Indivisible Church of Christ.. which contains infallible Truth. There's no doubt that throughout its history the Devil has infiltrated, sought to discredit and destroy the Holy Church, which in the reality of the Faith, is his only impediment to worldly domination.

The more God and, in fact, the Devil become abstract symbols, rather than concrete realities, as it has in the Western World, the more the Devil rules in the darkness.. and certainly those abstractions are resident in some of the highest levels of the Roman Catholic Church.

Father Gabriele Amorth has stated nothing that the (loyal) Magisterium is not already fully aware.

 

[Cliffy]

The Exorcist of the Vatican has stated what should be obvious to every Catholic. The Catholic Church has never, contrary to public opinion, declared that as a whole it is perfect, or infallible. Only in matters of doctrinal purity, declared as such by the Pope ex cathedra (from the Chair).. does it make such claims.

It accepts that it is a human institution IN WHICH subsists the Mystical and Indivisible Church of Christ.. which contains infallible Truth. There's no doubt that throughout its history the Devil has infiltrated, sought to discredit and destroy the Holy Church, which in the reality of the Faith, is his only impediment to worldly domination.

The more God and, in fact, the Devil become abstract symbols, rather than concrete realities, as it has in the Western World, the more the Devil rules in the darkness.. and certainly those abstractions are resident in some of the highest levels of the Roman Catholic Church.

Father Gabriele Amorth has stated nothing that the (loyal) Magisterium is not already fully aware.

Gobbly Goop! There is no truth in imaginary beings or organizations dedicated to the perpetuation of myths. The devil is alive in the catholic church because they keep it alive with their constant reference and belief in it.

 

[AnnaG]

I saw this movie once called "The Devil in Miss Jones" and I thought it was going to be about exorcism. In fact, it had a secret code on the cover... XXX, and I figured that was the mark of the devil (like 666). Well, imagine my surprise when I watched the movie. It could be that Miss Jones was possessed by a spirit, but it didn't look too evil to me - she had an appetite for ... uh, carnal pleasures and she never seemed to be satisfied. She was very active, although her "acting skills" might not have been her own - that part could have been "the Devil in her." (And he wasn't the only one)

But, if she was possessed by the Devil, it seems that "he" could be in many different places at once. I know myself that I sometimes get led off the subject of a thread, for no apparent reason. After much thought, I suggest that the Devil might be here, right on this Forum, lying in wait for his next victim to come along so he can throw him off topic. I know that sounds like the old cliche, "The Devil made me do it!", but really...is there any other explanation?

So, it is possible that the Devil is both here and in the Vatican at the very same time. The Vatican's chief exorcist may be right, thus giving credibility to the claim made in this thread title, as long as it's with the understanding that the Vatican may not be the only place to find the old bugger.

If the Devil gets out of control here, could I suggest that we either find training on exorcism for the mods, or perhaps even consider recruiting an exorcist to rid us of the beast, or at least keep him under control. I know it's not easy to find an exorcists these days, considering that many of those professionals move around frequently as they help develop young minds, but with the technology we have today, we should be able to overcome that obstacle.

Just tryin' to be helpful...

... and have a very valid point, too. I think as there are many things with details and the devil's in the details, the devil's pretty much everywhere at the same time. It's stretched pretty thinly, I would imagine.

 

[AnnaG]

Here's what I never understood:

People say that Satan is the opposite of God in every way, just like dark from light. Well, if that's the case, then it stands to reason that if God exists, then Satan doesn't, but is rather just an absence of God. In fact science itself has proven that darkness exists merely as an absence of light, or cold as an absence of heat.

So if they say Satan is the opposite of God in every way, and that god exists, then how can they say that Satan exists in any way other than as a simple absence of God?

lol Probably because scientific principles applied to matters of faith don't usually work. It's magic, you know.

 

[coldstream]

Gobbly Goop! There is no truth in imaginary beings or organizations dedicated to the perpetuation of myths. The devil is alive in the catholic church because they keep it alive with their constant reference and belief in it.

The 'big (bad) guy' might have come up with that himself, cliffy. To paraphrase The Usual Suspects.. the Devil's greatest victory was to convice the world that he did not exist. ;-)

 

[Spade]

What Father Amorth fails to recognize is the sexual scandals that plague the Church arise not from any devil but from hubris. There is a stubborn refusal in the Vatican to admit that the discipline of clerical celibacy in the Latin Rite may be a root cause of a very human problem - the aberrant expression of sexuality. While celibacy is optional in Eastern rites of the Church, it has been mandated for the last millennium or so in the Latin rite. So, to admit one's error is as unpalatable to the papal apologists as the whole question of devils is to the secular mind.

Vatican Speaks as Abuse Details Emerge - NYTimes.com

 

[Cliffy]

Actually, his greatest victory would be to convince people he was god.

 

[Cliffy]

What Father Amorth fails to recognize is the sexual scandals that plague the Church arise not from any devil but from hubris. There is a stubborn refusal in the Vatican to admit that the discipline of clerical celibacy in the Latin Rite may be a root cause of a very human problem - the aberrant expression of sexuality. While celibacy is optional in Eastern rites of the Church, it has been mandated for the last millennium or so in the Latin rite. So, to admit one's error is as unpalatable to the papal apologists as the whole question of devils is to the secular mind.

Vatican Speaks as Abuse Details Emerge - NYTimes.com

The devil is a convenient excuse to avoid responsibility. Nothing more. The church at this time (and possibly all time) is its own worst enemy.

 

[AnnaG]

Actually, his greatest victory would be to convince people he was god.

Someone tallied up the amount of people in the Bible that the Christian god had killed and it was over 10 million, then they tallied up how many people Satan had killed and it came to about 6 I think. That speaks volumes about character traits.

 

[Spade]

Meanwhile, as featured in the National Catholic Reporter.

 

[Cliffy]

Meanwhile, as featured in the National Catholic Reporter.

Father Thomas Williams, a Catholic priest and professor of theology and ethics in Rome, says there needs to be more study into any links between clerical celibacy and child abuse.
"I think studies need to be done and we need to know whether there is a causal relationship," he said, according to the ABC News report.
"Is, for example, the incident of child abuse higher among celibate clergy than it is among, for example, non-celibate clergy of other faiths to start?
"Or is it higher among celibate clergy - Catholic priests for example - than it is among other people that work with children; so in public schools, the boy scouts; whatever.
"These are studies that need to be done."


I wonder if the Pope whacked his pee pee for making such a suggestion? But then, what are the chances that such a study will ever get done?

 

[Machjo]

lol Probably because scientific principles applied to matters of faith don't usually work. It's magic, you know.

So God and Satan are total opposites of one another yet still both exist not one as an absence of the other, but rather both as concrete realities? If that's the case, how can one concrete reality be the total opposite of another concrete reality when by definition the opposite of a concrete reality would be an absence of that concrete reality?

 

[Machjo]

Isn't it possible, just maybe, that God used various literary devices such as symbolism and such in the Bible? Ya know, maybe he was more than a little literate?

 

[Cliffy]

So God and Satan are total opposites of one another yet still both exist not one as an absence of the other, but rather both as concrete realities? If that's the case, how can one concrete reality be the total opposite of another concrete reality when by definition the opposite of a concrete reality would be an absence of that concrete reality?

god and satan are myths, not concrete realities.

 

[Machjo]

god and satan are myths, not concrete realities.

If they're both myths, then they're still not total opposites of each other are they, as they'd have at least one thing in common.

 

[AnnaG]

So God and Satan are total opposites of one another yet still both exist not one as an absence of the other, but rather both as concrete realities? If that's the case, how can one concrete reality be the total opposite of another concrete reality when by definition the opposite of a concrete reality would be an absence of that concrete reality?

Because your "concrete realities" aren't concrete and essentially they aren't even real (or at least can't be evidenced as such).

 

[AnnaG]

If they're both myths, then they're still not total opposites of each other are they, as they'd have at least one thing in common.

Two sides of the same coin. A head can be defined as the absence of a tail. Yet it is the opposite of the tail.