Feds green light naked scanners

AnnaG

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Someone touched on high speed trains earlier in the thread. That might be an even better alternative. In Japan, it takes about 1 hour to fly from Tokyo to Osaka. If you're coming from somewhere near the centre of Tokyo, look for about a 1 hour trip to the airport. A couple of hours before flight time. At the other end, about another hour to get from the airport in Osaka to wherever you want to end up. (I'm using average times as these are really big cities). So, the round trip from Tokyo to Osaka is about 5 hours in total.

The bullet train is around 2 hours and 45 minutes, from Tokyo Station to Shin-Osaka station. You could estimate another half hour or so at either end to get to where you want to go, and you're looking at over an hour quicker to go by train vs. air.

And the ride on the bullet train is far more comfortable and enjoyable. And you can eat, drink, and be merry along the way!

Imagine if we could ever make a high-speed train service throughout Canada...the possiblities are tantalizing. Can't be done? Country too big/too wide? Uh, if you overlay Japan north to south on top of the East Coast of North America, it would stretch from Montreal to South Carolina. Sure, they have more people than we do, but not nearly as much tourism (potential traffic loads). On the other hand, they have quite a few more earthquakes than we do, and that is one of the very few things that will throw a bullet train off their consistently on-time schedules.
Exactly. I mentioned it earlier because we used to have a decent rail service. It seems our major hurdle before we can get something decent going is workmanship. Our machinery, materials, and workmanship are just crappy so we have train derailments a lot. We use cheap quality materials to build things. Most labour is union so they think they can slack off on doing a good job.
 

AnnaG

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I've used the TGV in France between Paris and Rennes, yes it is comfortable, being greeted by the Gendarmerie at Montparnasse carrying MP-5's was a bit off putting though. Trains come with their own hazards though. Maybe its a cultural thing, but North American level crossings seem to be a challenge for impatient drivers, or just accidents waiting to happen, my cousin's son was driving a dump truck across one when hit by an AmTrak train in Southern Ontario. Our kids' school bus driver in Sask had to hit the ditch when she couldn't stop for one. The problem with potential train wrecks is that they can happen a long way from rescue in this vast country. The other problem is funding, if a train can't be run without government subsidies it creates an unfair competetive business environment. As well, if airlines had the abyssmal safety record of AmTrak in the US in the past they would've be shut down in a heartbeat.
Yes rail has its own set of problems.
Safety is usually dependant on equipment or personel. If people weren't so hopped up on the "bigger is better/more is better" concept, tyhey'd pay more attention to quality than quantity and products would be better as well as workmanship and service. We have no pride in those things anymore, though.
Funding? Subsidies? How many handouts has Air Canada gotten?
 

AnnaG

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We will need the same security on trains that we have on airplanes - they are mass transit with potential for mass killings.
Apparently no-one's thought to tell Via they should have the same security as airports. But I agree, it wouldn't hurt to have rail security, too.
 

AnnaG

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Yep....Ten Penny is on to something here....make it practically impossible to get on an airplane, and the terrorists will simply switch targets....perhaps starting with the airport waiting rooms.....crammed nose to nose with hundreds of people waiting to be declared "safe" by security......BOOM!....or trains, or buildings, or sports events, or cruise ships, or buses, or subways, or....well, you get the idea.

Time to accept that life is a risk, go bact to a reasonable level of interference at airports, and focus on intelligence gathering......
Either accept that we will always have to deal with threats or else bite the bullet and fight back with the same tactics. "Listen, Mr. Habib. If you blow off that bomb and kill one of my kids. I will hunt down YOUR family and return the favor. Bomb our market and your mosque will get levelled". It's the only thing that will get their attention. You show them sympathy, leniency, mercy, and it just increases their contempt for you and your weakness. And I don't like the latter, so I am willing to accept that we have to adapt to scanners and stuff.
 

countryboy

Traditionally Progressive
Nov 30, 2009
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Apparently no-one's thought to tell Via they should have the same security as airports. But I agree, it wouldn't hurt to have rail security, too.

As long as they do it better than Parliament does...they don't actually have one organization in charge of security there...might be a good place to start establishing a simple, clear security precedent.

(How about C.H.S.? Canadian Homeland Security!) OK, I'm ducking already...:lol:
 

countryboy

Traditionally Progressive
Nov 30, 2009
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Yes rail has its own set of problems.
Safety is usually dependant on equipment or personel. If people weren't so hopped up on the "bigger is better/more is better" concept, tyhey'd pay more attention to quality than quantity and products would be better as well as workmanship and service. We have no pride in those things anymore, though.
Funding? Subsidies? How many handouts has Air Canada gotten?

AnnaG...I fired up a new thread on rail just now...
 

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
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anybody know who makes these scanners? just wondering who is profiting from the continued paranoia.




Stephen Phipson, president of Britain-based Smiths Detection, the world's largest maker of full-body scanners, insists that the machines only produce images that show the outlines of the human body, not anatomical parts. “The privacy concerns are valid,” he says. “But our software can blur out parts of the body. And the scanners are far less intrusive than the traditional pat down of the body.” At the U.S. airports where scanners have been installed, security officers must look at the images in isolated rooms and are not allowed to have any piece of equipment, such as a camera or mobile phone, that could be used to capture or copy the images.

http://www.tehrantimes.com/Index_view.asp?code=211641
 

AnnaG

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Yeah, the squawking over scanner issue is a planet made from a speck of space dust.
 

Mowich

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I'd much rather we develop a decent railway system again. I like going places by rail. And if we ever get our craftsmanship together, we could have really speedy ones like Japan does.


Yes, Anna. Great suggestion. We travelled a lot by rail on the prairies when we were young. Used to a take a Bud Car to S'toon and visit our grandparents. I miss train travel. Start a petition girl. :lol:
 

Mowich

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CP cant keep their trains on the tracks at 60 k,I would hate to see them run a high speed.

Theres 2 derailments or more a year here from Fernie B.C. to Burmis Alberta which is 30 miles east of the Alta/B.C. border.
Thats just a 130 mile stretch into the rockys.They had one right across from my house a few years ago,and when I lived in Burmis I witnessed 2 runaways and derailments complete with explosions while BBQing at a friends house which was next to the tracks..8O

I love trains though,I still remember when I moved west from Toronto in the 60's on the train and glenn Campbells one record playing over and over.
I remember every minute of that long train ride and thats when there was passenger service through the crowsnest pass into Fernie B.C. and the coast.
The service stopped here shortly after we moved and my dad rented the cpr station for a warehouse for his hardware store and I spent many days in the old office listening to CBC on their radio,they told me it ran through the rails.:roll:
Eventually we found the tunnel in the basement that linked the whole towns main street up from the prohibition days when rum running was big.

Sorry,off topic.

Still off topic, but had to say... you sure have had an interesting life, Kakato. Those tunnels you found really intrigued me. :smile:
 

bobnoorduyn

Council Member
Nov 26, 2008
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Really? At one of our nearby airports they took out an old x-ray scanner for luggage and installed some newfangled gadget that scans much better and it is faster.

Sure its faster, but it is not taking away or adding anything. By the way, they also scan domestic bags, something not done prior to 2004. Plus they pull bags whose owners don't get on board, something else they didn't do for domestic bags prior to 2004. These things all cause delays right down the line until untold hundreds of folks have missed their connections and have to sleep in airport terminals, it happens daily. But what do I care, I'm paid by the hour, I just pity the poor schmuck who has to deal with the irate passengers.

Anyway, I don't care if they keep adding scanners. If it keeps 1 terrorist from taking out a couple or 3 hundred passengers plus people on the ground, I'm happy.

That is the same rationale of the Coalition for Gun Control, and pretty much the same solution, but if it works for you...

I can stand in a line for a half hour waiting for a 10 minute scan, no problem. I like chatting with people; even the security people. I don't fret about delays. What would I do, grow wings and fly out to push the plane faster? Nah. I sit and read or chat.

A half hour? Aparently you weren't trying to travel between Christmas and New Years, try three hours, four, overnight. I've seen security lines in Halifax, yeah, piddly little Halifax, run up to two hours, on a normal day. It might not mean much to you, but the poor folks who spend four days of their one week vacation in an airport terminal might have a different opinion.

Perhaps one day the people in charge will make airports nicer places to be, as well.

One nifty gadget I think airports could use is something like a GPS but only for airport mapping.

You can thank Pierre Trudeau for the trend in making airports uninviting. Toronto's terminal 2 was designed just so, to keep people away. It was built just as wide bodies were coming into vogue and for every passenger there were 5 well-wishers. With Alitalia it was twice as worse, but they operated out of terminal 1. Terminal 2 belonged to The People's Airline, (sorry, I'm showing my vitriol) and yes that terminal was even advertised as being people unfriendly. But designers have since been trying to right those wrongs, it's slow, but they're trying.
 

bobnoorduyn

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Nov 26, 2008
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I just read a true account of a Blackwater employee going through security at Baghdad Airport, onto a Blackwater airplane.....he announced he was carrying a loaded Glock 9mm pistol, which the security personnel took from him, dutifully ran through the x-ray machine.....and then returned to him...:) lol

I shouldn't say this, but I will; my wife was cleaning out her purse one day and found three 12gauge shells that she stuffed in there after clay shooting a number of months prior. She held them up to me and asked, "where have I been since we were at the range". She had gone through airport security no less than six times after that day at the range. I told this story to a friend who had a similar story. He and his wife had moved from South Africa, visited the UK, came to Canada, gone back to the UK, and back here again. She was cleaning out her purse and pulled out six .45 Long Colt cartridges, 3 snake shot and 3 body armour piercing, (which are only issued to Special Forces, from which he had retired). No one caught any of these. Hmmm.

BTW, they used to load alternately shot and bullet in revolvers in SA because you never knew if you were going to have to shoot a snake or a large cat.
 

AnnaG

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Jul 5, 2009
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Don't get me started on that, just to say they started with no debt. As to your question; answer, in the past ten years at least, that's easy, none.
That's easy to understand. They charge $330 (cheapest flight) from Van to Calgary return where Westjet charges $257. They freakin well better have quit getting handouts.
Then there is stuff like this:

Air Canada: for $35, we'll let you talk to customer-service reps who can actually help you with a cancelled flight - Boing Boing

CTV Toronto - Air Canada shares fall as airline names new execs - CTV News, Shows and Sports -- Canadian Television

CTV News | Air Canada adds fuel surcharges to domestic flights
 

AnnaG

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Sure its faster, but it is not taking away or adding anything. By the way, they also scan domestic bags, something not done prior to 2004. Plus they pull bags whose owners don't get on board, something else they didn't do for domestic bags prior to 2004. These things all cause delays right down the line until untold hundreds of folks have missed their connections and have to sleep in airport terminals, it happens daily. But what do I care, I'm paid by the hour, I just pity the poor schmuck who has to deal with the irate passengers.
So quit flying if you don't like it. Take the train. Oh, I forgot, you don't think trains would be any good. Well, drive then.

That is the same rationale of the Coalition for Gun Control, and pretty much the same solution, but if it works for you...
Same rationale but a totally different subject. You are equating reaction to terrorist actions against thousands with the reaction to acts of a few against a few.

A half hour? Aparently you weren't trying to travel between Christmas and New Years, try three hours, four, overnight. I've seen security lines in Halifax, yeah, piddly little Halifax, run up to two hours, on a normal day. It might not mean much to you, but the poor folks who spend four days of their one week vacation in an airport terminal might have a different opinion.
*shrugs* So quit flying then.

You can thank Pierre Trudeau for the trend in making airports uninviting. Toronto's terminal 2 was designed just so, to keep people away. It was built just as wide bodies were coming into vogue and for every passenger there were 5 well-wishers. With Alitalia it was twice as worse, but they operated out of terminal 1. Terminal 2 belonged to The People's Airline, (sorry, I'm showing my vitriol) and yes that terminal was even advertised as being people unfriendly. But designers have since been trying to right those wrongs, it's slow, but they're trying.
Anyway, as I asked before, the alternative to these procedures is what?
 
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bobnoorduyn

Council Member
Nov 26, 2008
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So quit flying if you don't like it. Take the train. Oh, I forgot, you don't think trains would be any good. Well, drive then.

I never said I thought trains wouldn't be any good, I just don't think they will solve any problems, and I do drive, whenever possible

Same rationale but a totally different subject. You are equating reaction to terrorist actions against thousands with the reaction to acts of a few against a few.

Dig deeper, same rationale for a similar problem, the only difference is the numbers. Our reactions are the same, punish the many for the actions of a few. Tyranny gets its foothold one way or another.

So quit flying if you don't like it. *shrugs* So quit flying then.

I give up, you've outed me, I've been in the aviation business for four decades and flown for more of three of them, and I ain't giving it up, lord knows I've tried. People experience 5 or 6 days of headache at airports a year, I experience it 15 days a month. You're jones'n for a spat, I can see that. But I'll tell you right now, the security you want, you will certainly pay for. If you want to fly cheap as well, you can take your chances. I've been around long enough, I know far more people die from cutbacks than they do from terrorists when it comes to airplanes. The piper is going to be paid one way or another.