The meaning and scope of science

[Dexter Sinister]

Been pondering the thread title and the OP for some time, trying to work out an answer that satisfies me. It's a deceptively complex set of issues. I am, as most of you know, a committed and unapologetic admirer of science, it's the only reliable means we've ever found for testing the truth content of ideas, but I would not for a second ever argue that it's the only way to know things. Some ideas just aren't amenable to its methods. If you want to make empirical claims about the nature of the world around us, science is what you need, but if you want to talk about human feelings, science often isn't very useful. That may be just a matter of our ignorance, maybe we don't know enough to usefully apply science's methods to human feelings, but I'm inclined to doubt that. One of the more interesting results of science, Godel's theorems, amount to a proof that science cannot know everything: any system of formal logic complex enough to include arithmetic will contain within it propositions whose truth or falsity cannot be determined. They're originally purely mathematical theorems and there's a great deal of debate about whether they can be applied more broadly, but it seems to me that if mathematics has any relationship to reality at all--and it certainly seems to--we have to concede that there are claims we can't ever know to be true or false.

Not quite a satisfactory answer yet, that's as far as I've got so far.

 

[Cliffy]

to gain understanding about the physical realm we inhabit

To me, that is the essence of it. But there is more to life than meets the eye. So whether you believe in it or not, for many people life is also about the spiritual (not religious) and the metaphysical. These things are beyond science but no less real to those whose personal experiences have lead them to accept their existence. Having experienced the metaphysical is enough proof and those that think it is only delusional because they haven't experienced it or refuse to accept the possibility, are restricting their experience of life.

Metaphysics and spirituality include what is outside the realm of physical reality but science is restricted to the physical. It has its uses but is not the end all and be all for everyone.

 

[countryboy]

to gain understanding about the physical realm we inhabit

To me, that is the essence of it. But there is more to life than meets the eye. So whether you believe in it or not, for many people life is also about the spiritual (not religious) and the metaphysical. These things are beyond science but no less real to those whose personal experiences have lead them to accept their existence. Having experienced the metaphysical is enough proof and those that think it is only delusional because they haven't experienced it or refuse to accept the possibility, are restricting their experience of life.

Metaphysics and spirituality include what is outside the realm of physical reality but science is restricted to the physical. It has its uses but is not the end all and be all for everyone.

Cliffy, I agree with that. Metaphysical - is that what is known by some to be the "etheral body" or "inner self?" In the study and practise of Reiki (energy healing), the inner self is part of the body...one of the parts you can't see. And I believe the spiritual body is also referenced.

In the study of ayurvedia, I seem to recall reading that those same 3 bodies are part of the package. My understanding of the definition of ayurvedia is "the science of life." That's a fairly old science...about 5,000 years old.

There is also "TM" (transcendental meditation) which, if I'm not mistaken, is a method of "relaxing" the inner self to the point where the physical body can and will actually heal itself. I know it's been helpful for many people in dealing with high blood pressure, for example. I learned how to do it a number of years ago...I had been promoted in my job and was facing a lot of air travel time. But, I had a huge fear of flying at that time - probably at the phobia level. I took a chance on learning TM to help me out, and, for the next 20 years I was able to fly frequently without the panic attacks and in fact, actually enjoyed it (until I simply got sick of it). I still practise TM today although not as often as I used to.

Our conventional North American (Canada/US) views of medicine are fairly narrow, in my opinion. That's not to say they're bad; just rather limited in scope.

The "conventional" scientific view of things is quite limited as well. The approach of "physical evidence" is of course OK, but having a closed mind can direct one away from even trying to find evidence on something that one simply doesn't believe in, in the first place. I'm thinking here of things like sasquatch/bigfoot and UFOs, to name a couple.

An open mind can lead to great discoveries.