Should Quebec separate from Canada?

[ironsides]

think job security

Spanish is almost as important as English down here in S. Florida. Wife and daughter leave me in the dust, I have to think very carefully just to understand it. Thanks for the compliment. Job security, just think of the Canadian Ambassador having to learn all those languages. :lol:

 

[Ron in Regina]

If we had to pick one language as a common "In-country Trade Language," how
about something like Dene? I've heard it a lot years back in the north and kind of
enjoyed hearing it. Forty-Plus words for snow, and yet zero words for Pawnshop.
Both the French & English speakers in Canada couldn't complain about the other.
First Nations speaking Folks (except in the North) would be learning a new
language too.

At the time I was still a Second-Party Collection Agent. I would have conversations
like the following below. I don't understand Dene so I'll just insert sounds as they
sounded to me. This is an example of me quizzing three people who would drop
English out and have a conference in Dene, and then answer me again in English.

Me, "Where's the TV? You can either pay for it, right now, or I'm taking it."

Conference, "Humana-Humana-Humana-Pawnshop-Humana-Humana-JimBob's
Pawn-Humana-Humana-Forty Bucks-Humana-Human-Humana-Pawn Ticket."

Spokesperson for the three, "The TV was Stolen."

Me, "Yeah, I'll need that Pawn Ticket for JimBob's Pawn Shop."

This is followed by three shocked and embarrassed expressions as they hand over
the Pawn Claim Ticket. There's lots of room in Dene for words describing the things
that didn't exist before Europeans (& others) hit North America.

 

[Lou Garu]

Spanish is almost as important as English down here in S. Florida. Wife and daughter leave me in the dust, I have to think very carefully just to understand it. Thanks for the compliment. Job security, just think of the Canadian Ambassador having to learn all those languages. :lol:

I started to compose a flip comment , but the truth is spanish is becoming more pervasive here in Canada, and like you I have to listen very hard

 

[Machjo]

Ron, is Dene an easy language? I don't know the answer, whish is why I'm asking. The idea of course would be to choose an easy language that all could learn in let's say no more than 300 hours of instruction to a reasonable level of fluency, otherwise it would lead to the same problems we have now with English and French. If either of these two languages were easy to learn, the problem would likely have been solved long ago.

 

[Lou Garu]

If we had to pick one language as a common "In-country Trade Language," how
about something like Dene? I've heard it a lot years back in the north and kind of
enjoyed hearing it. Forty-Plus words for snow, and yet zero words for Pawnshop.
Both the French & English speakers in Canada couldn't complain about the other.
First Nations speaking Folks (except in the North) would be learning a new
language too.

At the time I was still a Second-Party Collection Agent. I would have conversations
like the following below. I don't understand Dene so I'll just insert sounds as they
sounded to me. This is an example of me quizzing three people who would drop
English out and have a conference in Dene, and then answer me again in English.

Me, "Where's the TV? You can either pay for it, right now, or I'm taking it."

Conference, "Humana-Humana-Humana-Pawnshop-Humana-Humana-JimBob's
Pawn-Humana-Humana-Forty Bucks-Humana-Human-Humana-Pawn Ticket."

Spokesperson for the three, "The TV was Stolen."

Me, "Yeah, I'll need that Pawn Ticket for JimBob's Pawn Shop."

This is followed by three shocked and embarrassed expressions as they hand over
the Pawn Claim Ticket. There's lots of room in Dene for words describing the things
that didn't exist before Europeans (& others) hit North America.

I see (hear) much the same with the french/english debacle eg: ( comment vous dites le shock absobers ) ,peeps are just to damn impatient (Dene is good second choice )

 

[Ron in Regina]

Ron, is Dene an easy language? I don't know the answer, whish is why I'm asking. The idea of course would be to choose an easy language that all could learn in let's say no more than 300 hours of instruction to a reasonable level of fluency, otherwise it would lead to the same problems we have now with English and French. If either of these two languages were easy to learn, the problem would likely have been solved long ago.

I've no idea, but it was easy enough for me to follow with every third to fourth
word spoken (the important ones to me in the conversation) being sub'd in from
English.

 

[Machjo]

I've no idea, but it was easy enough for me to follow with every third to fourth
word spoken (the important ones to me in the conversation) being sub'd in from
English.

:lol:

Good point. But was that the language itself or simply because the people you were speaking to hadn't mastered their own language well? And even if that was the proper language, it would still have to be easy for all to learn.

 

[Lou Garu]

:lol:

Good point. But was that the language itself or simply because the people you were speaking to hadn't mastered their own language well? And even if that was the proper language, it would still have to be easy for all to learn.

You may have made a minor incorrect assumption Muchjo, kids learn languages easier than adults if taught soon enough , would it not be more correct to say "easy for all ADULTS to learn" as I see that the major point of resistance...

 

[Machjo]

You may have made a minor incorrect assumption Muchjo, kids learn languages easier than adults if taught soon enough , would it not be more correct to say "easy for all ADULTS to learn" as I see that the major point of resistance...

Actually, that's false. There is plenty of research (vz. Frank, Formaggio, Ur, etc.) that have proven that on an hour by hour basis, adults and older children learn a second language faster than younger children do. There is general consensus among researchers that for difficult languages, it's best to start at the age of ten, and for easier languages, eight.

The reason for the myth that younger children learn faster is owing to the apparent ease with which they learn their mother-tongue. This ease is only apparent and not real, however. In fact, children find it more difficult to learn their mother-tongue than a second language. The reason it appears easier is as follows:

1. Adults remember how hard it was to learn their second-language, but not their first since they wre too young then.

2. Young children are exposed to the mother-tongue around 12 hours per day, and everyone is their teacher, including teachers, parents, TV, radio, music, bus drivers, waiters, etc. etc. etc.

3. The survival motive. The child has no choice but to learn his second-language to communicate basic needs to his parents.

Try to reproduce this in a class-room setting, and it's been proven in European elementary schools to be utterly impossible. Overall, it's agreed that in a classroom setting, younger children learn a second-language very poorly and inefficiently. In short, it's a waste of time and money unless the parents know the language too or they live in a community that uses the language, etc. Otherwise, if it's all to be taught in the classroom, good luck.

As for adults and older children, they understand the grammar of their mother-tongue already, so the teacher and students can exploit that to their own advantage to learn the second-language more quickly and easily than they'd lernt the first. The only reason they seldom learn the second-language as well is owing to the time investment and exposure received compared to the first. But if you teach a young child a second-language and an adult or older child the same scond language over the course of an hour in a classroom setting, the older child or adult would beat the younger child hands down.

 

[Machjo]

just another point. It's generally recommended that if a school wants to add mroe teaching hours for second languages, it's best to add them to the higher grades rather than to just teach the language at a younger age, for the reasons described above. The older children will learn the language more quickly than the younger ones, so where time and money matter, you don't wate it on teaching a second-language to kids in diapers.

 

[Ron in Regina]

:lol:

Good point. But was that the language itself or simply because the people you were speaking to hadn't mastered their own language well? And even if that was the proper language, it would still have to be easy for all to learn.

Dene, like I mentioned earlier might have forty-plus words for different types of snow,
but doesn't have it's own words for modern things like TV or Cheeseburger or Money.

 

[Lou Garu]

Actually, that's false. There is plenty of research (vz. Frank, Formaggio, Ur, etc.) that have proven that on an hour by hour basis, adults and older children learn a second language faster than younger children do. There is general consensus among researchers that for difficult languages, it's best to start at the age of ten, and for easier languages, eight.
.

Not having children ,I can only speak of what I heard (silly ,now that you point it out)

 

[Lou Garu]

Dene, like I mentioned earlier might have forty-plus words for different types of snow,
but doesn't have it's own words for modern things like TV or Cheeseburger or Money.

And That's a problem? (small j/k)
but under the forces of modern society , the language WILL evolve.

 

[Liberalman]

Rubbish. When I'd lived in Victoria, BC, I'd witnessed bigotry and open-mindedness. When I'd lived in Montreal, the same. Same in La Malbaie, and same in Ottawa. I've lived in different parts of Canada all my life, and we have open-minded people and bigots everywhere. Same in China by the way.

In fact, in some ways, at least as far as education is concerned, BC is MORE open than Ontario! In most of Ontatio, French is compulsory across the board. In BC, a school is free to offer French, Spanish, German, Japanese, Chinese (Mandarin), Russian, and Arabic, as per student interest. In Alberta, I can't remember the entire list, but I remember that they can offer French, Polish, Cree, Blackfoot, and I can't remember the others. So before you go out and insult any group, make sure you know what you're talking about.

I was talking about the praries I lived in Edmonton and listened to the rednecks talk about their distain for visible minorities so when you decide to live there then you will know what I am talking about.

 

[AnnaG]

Ithinkdecypheringwhatyouaretalkingaboutistroublesomealotofthetimeanyway.

 

[Spade]

IlikethePrairiesinspiteoftheoccasionalredneckfromRedDeer.

 

[Machjo]

I was talking about the praries I lived in Edmonton and listened to the rednecks talk about their distain for visible minorities so when you decide to live there then you will know what I am talking about.

No I've never lived in Edmonton. I have visited a few times though, years ago. But I remember one occasion when I was eating alone at a restaurant that was about to close early, and the owner, a Persian and a total stranger (except for our initial customer-restauranteur relationship started a few minutes earlier) invited me to a World Religion Day event. Well, I had nothing better to do that evening, so I accepted the invite. The hall they'd rented for the event was packed, and there were speakers quoting from the sacred texts of various religions at the beginning of the event, there wre cultural events with music, dance, etc. and then a free period to nibble and mingle. It was a very pleasent evenover all, and there wre people from all races there.

So it would seem Edmonton falls in teh same category as the rest.

 

[Lou Garu]

No I've never lived in Edmonton. I have visited a few times though, years ago. But I remember one occasion when I was eating alone at a restaurant that was about to close early, and the owner, a Persian and a total stranger (except for our initial customer-restauranteur relationship started a few minutes earlier) invited me to a World Religion Day event. Well, I had nothing better to do that evening, so I accepted the invite. The hall they'd rented for the event was packed, and there were speakers quoting from the sacred texts of various religions at the beginning of the event, there wre cultural events with music, dance, etc. and then a free period to nibble and mingle. It was a very pleasent evenover all, and there wre people from all races there.

So it would seem Edmonton falls in teh same category as the rest.

Ahh, Bahai's

 

[Lou Garu]

IlikethePrairiesinspiteoftheoccasionalredneckfromRedDeer.[/quo

and I

 

[Nakego]

I wouldn't like for Quebec to separate. It's been said before, but a lot of what makes Canada what it is, is because of Quebec.

And excuse me if I seem a little out of it here, but Quebec is the second most influential province in Canada while provinces that are further away from Ontario are left on the sidelines.

Quebec is a major influence on Canadian culture, so I don't understand why anyone there should complain about being a part of Canada.