Spanking detrimental to children, study says

[TenPenny]

Punishment (and by that I mean physical punishment)

Which is not what Kreskin's friend was saying. He was saying that physical and non-physical punishment doesn't work.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Which is not what Kreskin's friend was saying. He was saying that physical and non-physical punishment doesn't work.

Well, I make a distinction between punishment and discipline. To me, punishment means spanking, corporal punishment. Any other kind of action, time out, withholding television or any other privileges is discipline and is effective in the long term.

And that is what this study also is saying. That is why I highlighted that sentence in red. Verbal punishment (withholding of privileges etc.) does not appear to have the harmful effect that spanking does.

 

[VanIsle]

Punishment does not work.

Yes it does. Punishment doesn't have to be hitting of any kind. Why they target low income families is beyond me. High income families often spend far less time with their children than low income families do for one thing. They also cover up a lot of what goes on in their homes - all the way from child abuse to spousal abuse.
Children have to learn that there are rules and later on rules plus laws. I see what I consider to be abuse of a different nature. I watch parents with their children. Screaming, completely out of control children whoes parents calmly put through a large order of groceries and do absolutely nothing to stop the children from the screaming or running around totally disrupting everyone near them. Other people make comments which the parents also ignore. To me, allowing children to behave like that is abusive. It's teaching them that it's alright to be idiots in public and that discipline doesn't matter. A few days ago my little 7 year old granddaughter did something she was explicitly told she was not allowed to do. She understood what it was. She allowed her friend to talk her into doing it anyway. Her punishment is that she is not allowed to use a computer or her DS or watch TV for a week. Her parents objective? To teach her that she is to listen to what they say and not to what her friends tell her is right. If you think punishment doesn't work I am here to tell you it does. Grampa wanted to play a computer game with her. We like to play "hidden object" games. It's actually a good tool in observations for a child (adults too). She would not touch the mouse on the computer to point to the objects and was unsure if she should even be looking at the computer itself. Was she worried that she might be spanked or smacked if she did? No. She was worried that the privilege might be taken away for longer. We checked with her parents and they were very agreeable to her playing the game so long as she didn't have rampant use of the computer on her own. It was easy to see she had learned a lesson from her punishment of losing a privilege. She was not afraid of anything more than the loss being more lengthy.

 

[mt_pockets1000]

Punishment is best doled out in small amounts. While raising our rug rats my wife was constantly on the kids about cleaning their rooms, picking up after themselves, vulgar language, on and on. Eventually the kids ignored her because it sounded like a broken record. On the other hand I dished out my punishment in small amounts but when I raised my voice it cut through like a hot knife. Rarely did I have to spank my kids, but there were times when it was a requirement, for no other reason than their own safety. (No, you cannot ride your bike slowly down a main street backing up traffic for a whole city block! Com'ere dammit!)

We sometimes overdo it when it comes to raising kids. We hang on every detail about their lives not realizing they are individuals like you and me. We smother them with rules, demands and restraints thereby suppressing their individuality and eventually turning them into bitter adults. Let them be kids fer gawd sake. They need balance in their lives. Let them play, daydream, go crazy while at the same time stressing the importance of responsibility and accountability. Some parents think a week filled with soccer, music lessons, swimming and hockey will make Johnny a well rounded individual. Has anyone stopped to think whether Johnny actually likes all this stuff crammed into his life? Not to mention the stress you're putting yourselves under with the constant driving from one appointment to another. We parade our kids around like little mini-mes with the hope they will rise to levels we as parents only dreamed about. Stop it now! You're creating a population of overachievers who will be sorely disappointed when the real world steps in front of them. Not everyone can be president. We need ditch diggers too.

Today, I am proud of the wonderful young adults my kids have become. Whether my parenting techniques were acceptable or not I could care less. The end results speak for themselves.

 

[talloola]

BUT... to say that it never works, that people should never, etc., is where I draw a definite line.

Depends what you define 'works', sure hitting can make the child behave, but
that is the parents wish, has nothing to do with what's good for the child.
I will say it quite easily. 'Hitting children never works', for the good of the
child, only for the satisfaction of the patrent, defuses a situation, makes the
crying stop?, don't think so, makes it louder.
Adds fear to the matter, not reason.
If one has to actually be physical, it is very easy to reach out and take the arm
of the child, and restrain the child from further damage, (if there is a lot of
physical action going on 'by the child' that caused the problem),and use quiet and
calm, eye to eye contact, and firm conversation, and taking the child by the
arm just prevents further 'chaos', if that is the case. One doesn't have to
squeeze the arm, as that is painful, just hold on tight, and the child will
realize he/she must calm down, stay here, and we will 'talk', or just sit
together till crying stops, and quiet arrives.
Don't hit, that is just the parent losing patience and control.
To witness a parent hitting their child, as an onlooker, is very disturbing and
uncomfortable, and one can see at that second, it is the parent who has lost
it.
Prison systems don't work, doesn't seem to be any other way,' and these people
are not children', and often have become so dangerous or corrupt in their
behavior, the rest of society has to be protected from them.
Prison is a negative situation, not a positive one, but we don't want murdurers
wandering about, somelthing has to be done about them, and others.

 

[talloola]

If I were to witness a situation in a store, where a parent was just ignoring
a child who was carrying on in a terrible manner, and caused chaos and
a lot of noise, and was disturbing the peace, I would not think that that
parent was 'right' just because she/he was 'not' hitting the child.
The ignoring thing is ignorant too, and can end up badly.
That parent should have dealt with the situation while it was happening,
without hitting the child, if a parent stays calm and in control, it isn't
difficult at all, it is the anger in the parent, on top of the behavior of the
child that creates the bigger problem.

At least that is how I see it, after raising 4 children, giving some spankings
early on, certainly got over that quickly, and learned a better way.
And, it doesn't matter if it is girls or boys, and as I have stated in an earlier
post, I have one grandson who is smart, and as tough as nails, and no one
better hit him, or he will 'fight' with you,(and he is very strong, and determined), and won't tolerate anyone hitting him, but if you use intelligence and
patience, the situation can be defused, and a good conversation will follow,
and he will understand.

 

[VanIsle]

That is what I was saying. Those screaming children need to be taught that such behaviour is not acceptable and they don't need someone to ignore the behaviour or to spank them for it. I think parents who allow that are irresponsible.

 

[AnnaG]

This study really has nothing to do with the last thread (except that the subject is the same).

aaaahahhahahahhahahahahaaa

Chickens have nothing to do with eggs (except that they lay them). roflmao

 

[AnnaG]

OK....Assume something like the Post I've Quoted has been reported...
Now Assume you're a Moderator. What the heck is going on? Is someone
who knows how to use a quote feature, quoting others in some bizzare
fashion? Is this all just a copy&paste from an outside article and the multi
-color thing is irrelevant? Are the different colors qoutes of other people on
a different Thread being "Quoted" without their names being included?

Sir Jehovah Pompass's remarks are in black vyr sometimes he makes remarks in other colors, too. If he'd stick to one color (blue, green, plaid, whatever) it'd be easier to read.
He can't find the "quote this" button and hasn't a clue what quotation marks are for.

 

[AnnaG]

What worked for us was from info I posted in the other thread about spanking (that has nothing to do with spanking but it does have the same subject lmao). We used positive reinforcement mostly and positive punishment; rewarding for doing good and adding chores as punishments for doing bad.

Yeah. Sometimes fear is necessary. Positive reinforcement works the best. The whole idea is to promote positive behavior.

positive=>adding/giving
negative=>removing/withdrawing
reinforcement=>increasing behavior
punishment=>decreasing behavior

So positive reinforcement is adding something to increase a behavior. Rewarding for good behavior.
Negative r. means removing something to increase a behavior. Dismissing a child from doing dishes, for instance.
Positive punishment is adding something (like a swat on the bottom) to decrease a behavior.
Negative punishment is removing something to decrease a behavior. IE; removing privileges to stop bad behavior.

 

[Ron in Regina]

How can something be reported for Trolling? How can someone report someone
for pointing out that they think someone is Trolling? How can grown adults not
conduct themselves in a manner fitting to their age? All are good questions.

I've been to the Forum here today, for a total of about six minutes, on three
separate occasions....for the same Thread....how is that possible? Until time
permits for a Moderator to sort those questions out, This Thread will be closed
until time permits for it to be reviewed. Sorry Folks. We'll get to it when we can.

I've had the time to finally read through this Thread. Unapproved several Posts,
and removed the Political & Religious baiting that was reported that had nothing
to do with the article. The Thread will be reopened.

 

[Colpy]

We had a thread about spanking a while ago (which as I recall, degenerated into a flaming thread, I hope posters would be more responsible on this one). Well, another study on spanking has just been released.

Spanking detrimental to children, study says - CNN.com

This study is really in line with several other studies released in the past years (text in blue is from the study, in black, my comments).

Think a little spanking won't do much harm to kids? New research says the effects can be long-lasting.

New study of more than 2,500 toddlers from low-income families found that spanking may have detrimental effects on behavior and mental development.

Berlin and colleagues found that children who were spanked as 1-year-olds tended to behave more aggressively at age 2, and did not perform as well as other children on a test measuring thinking skills at age 3. The study is published in the journal Child Development.

The new study focused on children from low-income families because prior research suggested that spanking is more common among them, Berlin said.

Her study found that about one-third of the 1-year-olds, and about half of the 2- and 3-year-olds, had been spanked in the previous week, according to mothers' self-reporting to the researchers.

That is a high proportion of spanking indeed. No wonder we have such a problem with violence today. Evidently in the families where spanking does goes on, it seems to be routine, quite frequent.

Previous research had also found that parents who spank are more likely to be younger, less educated, single, and/or depressed and stressed, Berlin's study said.

Makes sense. Depressed or stressed out parents are more likely to take out their frustration on their kids (who obviously cannot fight back).

Spanking is most commonly used among parents who were spanked themselves, who live in the South, and/or who identify themselves as conservative Christians.

Moderator Edit: Removed Religious & Political Trolling that didn't pertain to the published article.

These parents also tend to believe in the effectiveness of spanking or believe the child is at fault in a given situation, the study said.

But of course it is never the parents' fault. It does not even occur to these parents that they may be taking out their frustrations with the world (their boss, their spouse etc.)on their children.

Verbal punishment did not appear to have the same detrimental effects as spanking in this study, Berlin said.

Susan Newman, social psychologist and author of "Little Things Long Remembered: Making Your Children Feel Special Every Day," said parents should discourage bad behaviors by taking away privileges such as dessert, or setting an earlier bedtime.

"If the mother sees this fussiness as willful misbehavior and begins verbally punishing or spanking, rather than empathizing with the child, the child's behavior deteriorates into more tantrums and other frustrating behavior," said another clinical psychologist, Laura Markham (not involved in the study).

Newman also noted that children are too young to understand when parenting behavior is wrong, even at the level of abuse. Physical violence gets passed down in families because the only parenting skills people know are the behaviors that they saw at home, she said.

Just the opinion I have held all along, spanking is really a kind of physical abuse. And abuse, whether physical or sexual, does tend to get passed down from generation to generation.

In the spanking study, some mothers said they were receiving parenting services in which they were counseled not to spank their children.


"This is definitively the direction in which services are going and in which, in general, American culture is going," Berlin said.


Moderator Edit: Removed Religious & Political Trolling that didn't pertain to the published article.

This study obviously belongs in the trash........it is restricted to low-income families????? That in itself throws the entire body of "research" into disrepute......

Then the commentary does not clearly indicate how the relevant comparisons were carried out.....were the low-income spanked children compared to other low-income children that were not spanked??? Or the general population?

Were other factors considered..........

Now, let me say that IMHO I think the greatest indication of a flawed culture is that so many believe the government has any right whatsoever to intervene when responsible parents are engaged in disciplinary practices that are seen as normal and acceptable by a large segment of society......and have most definitely NOT been proven to be harmful.

Not by this study, that's for sure.

 

[VanIsle]

Quite right, VanIsle. There has to be a third alternative than to ignore or to spank. If the child is small enough he could be picked up and put in the shopping cart. If child is too big for that, perhaps the parent could stop the shopping right there and then (and pointedly put away any treats she may have purchased for the offending child). Then impose penalties after going home.

Ignoring the child if the child is causing destruction to the store is not an option. On the other hand, if the child is small enough to stay in the shopping cart and yells his head off, where is the harm?

Where is the harm? How do you like standing in any line up in the store with a full cart of groceries listening to some kid scream his lungs out because he can't have the $10.00 movie he wants? Next time it happens just look around you. People's hair is almost standing on end and their faces are tense and drawn and they are feeling angry. Mostly they are angry at the negligent parent who allows the screaming to occur. Let me tell ya - in my opinion, it's the parent that needs a damn good smack in such instances.

 

[TenPenny]

I don't understand the need to pointlessly report threads as trolling, when they are simply a conversation about an issue.

But then again, I don't understand the need for the 'Quite right, old boy, I'm so wonderful that it's nice to see you validating me' posts, either.

I note that the study referred to in the OP mentioned that a pretty high proportion of kids were spanked once a week - I think that if anyone did a study of average families, you'd find that those that 'believed' in spanking did it far, far less frequently, maybe once every month or two at most. The attempt to paint rampant spanking attacks as some sort of religious thing is a bit off.

 

[Kreskin]

Where is the harm? How do you like standing in any line up in the store with a full cart of groceries listening to some kid scream his lungs out because he can't have the $10.00 movie he wants? Next time it happens just look around you. People's hair is almost standing on end and their faces are tense and drawn and they are feeling angry. Mostly they are angry at the negligent parent who allows the screaming to occur. Let me tell ya - in my opinion, it's the parent that needs a damn good smack in such instances.

A screaming kid in a store represents a parent with either poor parenting skills or a complete lack of respect for others. Probably both.

 

[VanIsle]

A screaming kid in a store represents a parent with either poor parenting skills or a complete lack of respect for others. Probably both.

I'm sure you are right but I think for the most part it appears to be a complete lack of respect for others. Mothers carry on like it wasn't happening (except for the ones who want to show everyone in the store how in control they are NOT and they yell back at the yelling kid) and Fathers usually have this sheer look of panic on their faces.

 

[Kreskin]

This is a cut and paste but I support what it says.

MYTH #1: Parenting is the most difficult job in the world.

FACT: Parenting is like riding a bicycle or making an omelette- it's only difficult if you do not know how to do it.

MYTH #2: We do not receive any instruction manuals on how to parent.

FACT: We all had a childhood of one kind or another and experienced some kind of parenting. We were taught how to parent by the way in which we were parented.

MYTH #3: You can't discipline without punishment.

FACT: Healthy discipline and punishment are two different things. Punishment creates feelings of insecurity, anger, resentment and fear. Healthy discipline promotes feelings of confidence, security, responsibility, and love.

MYTH #4: You can spoil kids with too much love.

FACT: The problem is that the majority of people alive on our planet grew up with too little love. At the root of most emotional illness is low self-worth directly related to a lack of self love.

MYTH #5: You can't be your child's parent and your child's friend.

FACT: The truly effective parent is a teacher, coach, mentor, role-model, and friend to his/her children. This friendship in no way detracts from the parent's legal responsibility and moral obligation to correct, set limits, and at times say "no."

MYTH #6: It's so easy to psychologically damage kids that you have to be perfect in order to raise emotionally healthy, high-achieving and drug-free kids.

FACT: All children have a tremendous amount of emotional resilience and hardiness. "Perfect" parents are dangerous to their kids since to be human is to be imperfect. "Perfect" parents are in effect dishonest and not real and healthy parenting requires honest parents who are real.

MYTH #7: Parents own their children and have the right to raise them any way they see fit.

FACT: We do not own our children. They are gifts loaned to us for a relatively brief period of time. In addition, as parents, we do not have the right to raise our kids in such ways that they will grow up and threaten the freedom and safety of others.

MYTH #8: If your children don't fear you, they won't respect you.

FACT: Like punishment and discipline, fear and respect are often confused but in actuality are two totally different things. Respect, trust, intimacy and clear, honest communcation are essential parts of all healthy relationships. Fear, whether of being criticized, punished or rejected, interferes with the development of respect, trust, intimacy and clear, honest communication.

MYTH #9: It really makes no difference how you raise your kids--if they use drugs as teenagers, it's because they choose to do so.

FACT: This is an attempt on the part of all too many parents to avoid accepting the responsibility for the outcomes of their parenting. Emotionally wounded teens and adults do indeed make choices, but unfortunately tend to choose self-destructive behaviors rather than growth promoting and life affirming behaviors.

MYTH #10: Big boys don't cry--you're a sissy if you cry.

FACT: This is perhaps the most destructive myth of all, particularly as related to the emotional wounding of boys and men. The process whereby boys and men are forced to shut down their emotions, deny their feelings and fears and become "macho" has, for centuries, had disastrous effects on our society, male/female relationships, and parenting. Truly confident and emotionally mature and secure boys and men can show feelings, admit fears, be vulnerable, and give themselves permission to cry.

 

[Nuggler]

In this day and age, and with everything we know about parenting and childhood development, there is no need for it. There are better ways to parent.

How old are you actually. K. Yer losin it

Do your diapers need changing?

I hope the "staff" don't abuse you.

 

[TenPenny]

My mother didn't hesitate to use spanking, but she also made it clear that no matter what, she loved us.

I especially like the 'Healthy discipline promotes feelings of confidence, security, responsibility, and love' bit.

Yes, Michael, I know that you spit on that girl, while you tried to break her hockey stick, but you must know that daddy and I love you very much, and we don't want her father to speak harshly to you. You're the most wonderful child in the world, and the fact that all of your friends' parents don't want you in their houses is no reflection on your sunny, wonderful personality. You are special, and the most amazing child in the neighborhood.

That BS might work for you, but after I stuck my finger in his face, and threatened to rip his tongue out if he ever spit on my daughter again, he treats me with some respect - he says hello, and makes eye contact. Which he doesn't do for his parents, who wouldn't ever touch his precious body.

 

[Kreskin]

Any kid who spits on another belongs just hasn't got beaten enough, eh?